M9000 or Viper

[ssjrmk]

I am looking into getting a 4 stroke. I want turbo power at roughly 230 hp. I know that these 2 machines share similar chassis but I was wondering which one has the best power band/ Power(if they are similar HP)? Which one is lighter and handles better in the trees? Which one is more reliable? What are the pro's and Con's of each machine? Any info would be great. Thanks.

 

[trucker379l]

I would look at the cat, you can get 230hp for a pretty good price compared to a Yamaha. I wouldn't look at a Yamaha until they get they're rod issues figures out. A friend of mine bent a rod last week on his first trip, 48 miles on sled. And he only has a mpi 190hp kit.

 

[AGGRESIVEZEBRA]

ya other than yamaha with the rod issue. they are so close in just about everything it almost comes down to the dealer you would like to work with. go into each shop see what the staff is like ill probably be going viper next year as i find my yamaha dealer a way nicer experience than my cat one. and as the rumors go sounds like AC will be getting a new motor next year, i will never go with a year one product. don't like being a guinea pig for them. Just my 2 cents

 

[slededjr]

Both are great machines. My buddies all switched to Vipers, but i went CAt. Reason i went Cat is everything is factory setup. WIth a few mods and the EVO tune, everything is built in and monitored by ecm instead of third party guages. Basically a lot more user friendly. Lots of great turbo kits out there for the Vipers yes, but you still need additional guages mounted, fuel box settings for different altitudes etc. Depends if you dont mind doing a bit of tuning here and there or just simply strt and go. Lots of guys i spoke to swear that the EVO 215 tune will stomp other competitions 240 tune. Not going to start bashing other manufacturers, just going by what i hear. Will be doing the EVO 215 tune shortly to mine.

 

[ssjrmk]

I love the look of the Viper and would love to get one but The Cat seems like it might be the better deal. They are both similar in price but with the Viper you still have to pay for a Turbo whereas the cat only has to be Retuned. I also like what you said Sledjr about the fact that the cat Has the built in monitoring. Simple and reliable is something I really want so I like that idea. I was also wondering does the Viper feel heavier in the front end because of the radiator as opposed to the Cat tunnel heat exchangers?

 

[Bnorth]

I've ridden with guys on both and ridden a few M9000's with varying degrees of mods. None of them can hold a candle to the T3 174 in the technical and on most climbs the 174 gets there just not as fast as the turbo.

 

[slededjr]

Never rode the Viper but the Cat actually doesn't feel that heavy. I was quite surprised. It definitely won't navigate like a T3 or Axys or what ever, but it has a lot more torque then them. T3 will go lots of places, so did my XP 154. The 4 stroke Turbo has a huge torque difference. It just keeps pulling. Two of my buddies can ride the Viper like they're on Summits or Axys compared to how I ride. Yiur ability will make a difference also on how it climbs, navigates etc. I've rode Doo all my life and so far am happy with the change. Just hope it's as problem free as my Doos were.

 

[contagius]

Dollar for dollar cat is the way to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Got boost want snow]

I went with the viper, mine is a 2015 180mpi. The sled doesn't feel heavy and I can ride it through the trees pretty easy. My choice would be for the Yamaha. Reliability is one of the best, clutching is the best when building bigger horsepower. I also ride a Turboed Apex approx 290 hp which has about 6500 miles on it. It has seen minimal repairs for the hp it runs.

 

[rightsideup]

ya other than yamaha with the rod issue. they are so close in just about everything it almost comes down to the dealer you would like to work with. go into each shop see what the staff is like ill probably be going viper next year as i find my yamaha dealer a way nicer experience than my cat one. and as the rumors go sounds like AC will be getting a new motor next year, i will never go with a year one product. don't like being a guinea pig for them. Just my 2 cents

What years did this rod issue surface?

 

[BIGHORN1]

I've ridden with guys on both and ridden a few M9000's with varying degrees of mods. None of them can hold a candle to the T3 174 in the technical and on most climbs the 174 gets there just not as fast as the turbo.

Nowhere in this thread did anyone ask for advice on a t3, yes you l love yours but this has fugall to do with it. go drink some more doo-laid with Trent.

 

[Redturbo]

It started with sleds built after 03/15. Hopefully they can get this can of worms closed back up.

 

[trucker379l]

In the 16's. I believe some of the early build 16's still have the heavy rods.

 

[ttpowersports]

I love the look of the Viper and would love to get one but The Cat seems like it might be the better deal. They are both similar in price but with the Viper you still have to pay for a Turbo whereas the cat only has to be Retuned. I also like what you said Sledjr about the fact that the cat Has the built in monitoring. Simple and reliable is something I really want so I like that idea. I was also wondering does the Viper feel heavier in the front end because of the radiator as opposed to the Cat tunnel heat exchangers?

.

Well I can offer some input , I sell both and have had 6 Cat turbos as a demos , n loved them , also a 2015 162 viper with the 180 kit on it , the cat turbo is turn key n ride period , no clutching for altitude no extra gauges just gas it start it and ride it. And you can eAsily get ur 240-265 hp for about 35-4ooo.oo and still not have any issues. Basically change clutch, exhaust, cooler tubes , ecu reflash , rollover kill tether , n ride still no changes required from mountain to low elevations. Other mods available based on preference , skis , inter cooler fans etc. new 2016 front end kit 36" adaptable to all turbos and pro limbs back to 2012 this kit also allows for 87 octane stating if required and saves u fuel at 240 hp setting over stock!

the yamaha viper is yamaha reliable period, mine has (for sale ) the 180 kit n extras, runs like a top, turbo kit is 3 k on promo plus install 10-12 hrs - still need to clutch it forelevation changes , well balanced triple four stroke. For the dollar it's more money to setup and quite modified from the stock version compared to minor changes on the cat with 240 upgrade . The Yamaha engine works awesome in the proclimb chassis stock it's a comparable to. Very strong 700 with more torque wider power band

Pros on the cat lots options to personalize. LOTS OF 13-14 new out there with warranty for great deals I have two under 10k out the door . The 240-265 upgrades still have the machine very close to stock with out any huge changes, also once the upgrade is on you just ride like it was stock, but it pulls like crazy.. So 15,000 out the door or less would get u a new 240 cat!

Cons ins on the cat the belt is 250-290 bucks. So break in is crucial !! 50-miles then no issues some run vented panels
I never have , I also don't blow belts break two in n good to go anywhere.
Yes its heavier than a two stroke but lots of ways to drop weight also personal exercise helps lol

pros of in the viper - non currents available can save u some cash - yamaha reliability, but remember if ur going from stock to 180 you have warranty, 240 you don't , drive belts are a lot cheaper, smaller triple is a bit quicker to start in real cold temps

cons a lot more envolved process to boost power up 180 or 270 so cost is more , additional gauges n tuning required with turbo adds. Would cost more to make it a 180 than a stk cat.

All fourstrokes are are heavy before someone chirps in about their 2stroke.
Trying to answer ur questions n give insight .
We have modded more cats because of price and hp for dollar.

Sold lots of yamahas modded to customers who wear and are very happy with them .
Personal wish list is important- do you like to tune and monitor or just ride ?

Lots of peeps jump on a fourstroke n go for a quick ride n say lots of power but too heavy , they handle diff for sure , you
have to get used to it like changing from one brand to another, We installed the new narrow er 16 a arm kit on our 14 turbo and IMO it makes it 30-40% easier to toss around.
I could go go on lol feel free to call an we can answer any questions you have , plus (shameless plug) giveyou the best deal n service experience , because we ride what we sell , and appreciate fellow sledders n our customers ,

thats my 17 cents worth

terry
780-826-6121 shop

 

[slededjr]

You can also use the Gates C12 belt. $140 a belt.

 

[Rotax_Kid]

.

Well I can offer some input , I sell both and have had 6 Cat turbos as a demos , n loved them , also a 2015 162 viper with the 180 kit on it , the cat turbo is turn key n ride period , no clutching for altitude no extra gauges just gas it start it and ride it. And you can eAsily get ur 240-265 hp for about 35-4ooo.oo and still not have any issues. Basically change clutch, exhaust, cooler tubes , ecu reflash , rollover kill tether , n ride still no changes required from mountain to low elevations. Other mods available based on preference , skis , inter cooler fans etc. new 2016 front end kit 36" adaptable to all turbos and pro limbs back to 2012 this kit also allows for 87 octane stating if required and saves u fuel at 240 hp setting over stock!

the yamaha viper is yamaha reliable period, mine has (for sale ) the 180 kit n extras, runs like a top, turbo kit is 3 k on promo plus install 10-12 hrs - still need to clutch it forelevation changes , well balanced triple four stroke. For the dollar it's more money to setup and quite modified from the stock version compared to minor changes on the cat with 240 upgrade . The Yamaha engine works awesome in the proclimb chassis stock it's a comparable to. Very strong 700 with more torque wider power band

Pros on the cat lots options to personalize. LOTS OF 13-14 new out there with warranty for great deals I have two under 10k out the door . The 240-265 upgrades still have the machine very close to stock with out any huge changes, also once the upgrade is on you just ride like it was stock, but it pulls like crazy.. So 15,000 out the door or less would get u a new 240 cat!

Cons ins on the cat the belt is 250-290 bucks. So break in is crucial !! 50-miles then no issues some run vented panels
I never have , I also don't blow belts break two in n good to go anywhere.
Yes its heavier than a two stroke but lots of ways to drop weight also personal exercise helps lol

pros of in the viper - non currents available can save u some cash - yamaha reliability, but remember if ur going from stock to 180 you have warranty, 240 you don't , drive belts are a lot cheaper, smaller triple is a bit quicker to start in real cold temps

cons a lot more envolved process to boost power up 180 or 270 so cost is more , additional gauges n tuning required with turbo adds. Would cost more to make it a 180 than a stk cat.

All fourstrokes are are heavy before someone chirps in about their 2stroke.
Trying to answer ur questions n give insight .
We have modded more cats because of price and hp for dollar.

Sold lots of yamahas modded to customers who wear and are very happy with them .
Personal wish list is important- do you like to tune and monitor or just ride ?

Lots of peeps jump on a fourstroke n go for a quick ride n say lots of power but too heavy , they handle diff for sure , you
have to get used to it like changing from one brand to another, We installed the new narrow er 16 a arm kit on our 14 turbo and IMO it makes it 30-40% easier to toss around.
I could go go on lol feel free to call an we can answer any questions you have , plus (shameless plug) giveyou the best deal n service experience , because we ride what we sell , and appreciate fellow sledders n our customers ,

thats my 17 cents worth

terry
780-826-6121 shop

Great post! Out of curiousity, because in some of the reviews I've read lately, some seem to be implying it...

Yamaha has warranty with a 180 kit, but not a 240+

Some seem to imply that even with modding a Cat, they are still maintaining a warranty..I have my doubts, but any truth to that?

 

[slededjr]

Great post! Out of curiousity, because in some of the reviews I've read lately, some seem to be implying it...

Yamaha has warranty with a 180 kit, but not a 240+

Some seem to imply that even with modding a Cat, they are still maintaining a warranty..I have my doubts, but any truth to that?

I think they do because it's a Yamaha installed kit, same idea as the Cat. I thought there wasnt too much more a person could do to the MPI kit for additional HP but i may be wrong? My buddies all have Alpine Motorsports kits. They can adjust from 180 to 240 ish depending on fuel. Change mapping, increase/decrease boost.

 

[Rotax_Kid]

I think they do because it's a Yamaha installed kit, same idea as the Cat. I thought there wasnt too much more a person could do to the MPI kit for additional HP but i may be wrong? My buddies all have Alpine Motorsports kits. They can adjust from 180 to 240 ish depending on fuel. Change mapping, increase/decrease boost.

Can take a MPI kit to 240, as they have some nice parts o do it, but understood it's close to $3500 to upgrade it

 

[Bnorth]

Nowhere in this thread did anyone ask for advice on a t3, yes you l love yours but this has fugall to do with it. go drink some more doo-laid with Trent.

Hey a-hole he has a 174 T3 in his sig so I was trying to advise him against going backwards from a well rounded machine to a one dimensional machine.

 

[ZRrrr]

Buy a 15 Cat...most issues solved by then. Numerous 240 flashes available for a few hundred bucks that will run stock clutching. Many seeing better power to the track with a torsional conversion however. WIth a tune you will need a more free flowing muffler for sure. Divorced turbo outlet helps even more. Dayco XTX5020 or Carlisle XS809 belts are holding up real well and cost much less.........Then go ride and smile for miles!