Clemina Avalanche Video

[ForeverRMK!]

What is this.... no reason? There is always a reason and it is related to weak layers underneath or extra weight on top. The extra weight on top can becaused by sunshine and/or wind loading and be perfectly "normal". Other than that little mistake I agree with you....

I didn't mean no reason at all, I meant it was not caused from us being there, it was just its time to come down.

 

[rknight111]

I want to say thanks to the people that were involved with this avalanche to come and talk about it in here. It takes alot to come and talk about it. I know you all have learned a valuable lesson that day and don't need to be bashed down. :d

[FLV]http://video.snowandmud.com/flvideo/285.flv[/FLV]

 

[Sleeper700]

Alright,

I need to chime in here. As one of the 'idiots' at the bottom. Actually the one guy who's sled was burried from the run out. I agree that mistakes were made on this hill. But it was more from lack of knowledge than anything. That day was my second day in the mountains.. EVER. Should I have known to watch from a safer distance and to park with a way out? Yeah in hindsight, it seems pretty obvious. But anyone who says they start out a new activity or career or whatever and never misses something obvious.. is simply wrong. It's a mistake I'll never make again. There was two runs made at this hill before the one in the video. That's what cut the support away. Again, in hindsight, the guy riding should have just straight shot over the top, it's safe up there. Easy to criticize even your own actions after the fact. We thought we were safe sitting on the massive ridge at the base of the hill, ( and for the most part we were as it didn't roll out much past it) Lessons were learned, everyone involved was impacted by the severity of what happenned and will make much smarter decisions in the future. For myself, that will include an avalanche course. Call me an idiot if you like, I could really care less, but I agree with those that point out that education is the main factor, because trust me, some of that knowledge is not the sort that comes naturally to those starting out in the sport.

Urbanstyles,

Would you be able to answer a few questions for me? Keep in mind I understand that it was your second day in the mountains, and believe me, I wasn't nearly as informed about avalanches my first couple of trips either.

1. How experienced were the other riders in your group? The reason I ask this is to see what percentage of the riders may have been aware of the current avy conditions this year.

2. Have you ever been told about or shown any of the avalanche awareness websites before? If not, what types of advertising would have caught your attention enough to get you to visit them. If so, did you understand the warnings that were there?

3. Prior to this incident, had you practiced at all with any avalanche gear? Do you think that you would have been able to find the guy quickly if he was buried?

4. If you bought your sled from a dealer, do you think that if they would have recommended an avy course at the time of purchase, that you would have taken the course? What if the dealer offered a discounted price on a course?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions, and please understand that if you are not comfortable answering any of them, don't feel that you have to. If you want to discuss the questions privately, send me a pm, but I am sure that I am not the only one that is curious about the answers.

P.S. Thanks for being brave enough to come on and share your side of the story. All that I can hope is that many people can learn from your experience.

 

[HRT Offroad]

Alright,

I need to chime in here. As one of the 'idiots' at the bottom. Actually the one guy who's sled was burried from the run out. I agree that mistakes were made on this hill. But it was more from lack of knowledge than anything. That day was my second day in the mountains.. EVER. Should I have known to watch from a safer distance and to park with a way out? Yeah in hindsight, it seems pretty obvious. But anyone who says they start out a new activity or career or whatever and never misses something obvious.. is simply wrong. It's a mistake I'll never make again. There was two runs made at this hill before the one in the video. That's what cut the support away. Again, in hindsight, the guy riding should have just straight shot over the top, it's safe up there. Easy to criticize even your own actions after the fact. We thought we were safe sitting on the massive ridge at the base of the hill, ( and for the most part we were as it didn't roll out much past it) Lessons were learned, everyone involved was impacted by the severity of what happenned and will make much smarter decisions in the future. For myself, that will include an avalanche course. Call me an idiot if you like, I could really care less, but I agree with those that point out that education is the main factor, because trust me, some of that knowledge is not the sort that comes naturally to those starting out in the sport.

Thanks for chiming in...
Yes, it was a lack of knowledge on your part, but whomever you were with shouldn't have put you in that kind of danger. Most importantly...the fella climbing the hill shouldn't have been there to begin with!
I really think that users should have to have a license for back country use (ie: proof of avalanche awareness training or something to that degree). That way everyone would know the basics and couldn't plead ignorance...and whether or not they choose to use it up to them. Unfortunately it's not those that perish in the back country that are left to deal with the tragedy...the real victims are those that are left at home to grieve...

 

[Dean10]

Great job Sleeper700,

I like your idea of seeking answers from incidents like this, it could lead to greater awarness for all mountain riders. I hope you get detailed responses from several of the people who were there.

Why stop at this one, track down all the recent avy survivors.

Dean

 

[blastoff]

I want to say thanks to the people that were involved with this avalanche to come and talk about it in here. It takes alot to come and talk about it. I know you all have learned a valuable lesson that day and don't need to be bashed down. :d

[FLV]http://video.snowandmud.com/flvideo/285.flv[/FLV]

I agree dont bash this guy better that we all learn something here

 

[SHREK1]

at least he know he screwed up , lots of us make bad decisions , when you get rollin on its hard not to sometimes , easier once you get older to stay away , young and full of piss and vinager and invinsable

 

[urbanstyles]

[/COLOR]

Urbanstyles,

Would you be able to answer a few questions for me? Keep in mind I understand that it was your second day in the mountains, and believe me, I wasn't nearly as informed about avalanches my first couple of trips either.

1. How experienced were the other riders in your group? The reason I ask this is to see what percentage of the riders may have been aware of the current avy conditions this year


2. Have you ever been told about or shown any of the avalanche awareness websites before? If not, what types of advertising would have caught your attention enough to get you to visit them. If so, did you understand the warnings that were there?


3. Prior to this incident, had you practiced at all with any avalanche gear? Do you think that you would have been able to find the guy quickly if he was buried?


4. If you bought your sled from a dealer, do you think that if they would have recommended an avy course at the time of purchase, that you would have taken the course? What if the dealer offered a discounted price on a course?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions, and please understand that if you are not comfortable answering any of them, don't feel that you have to. If you want to discuss the questions privately, send me a pm, but I am sure that I am not the only one that is curious about the answers.

P.S. Thanks for being brave enough to come on and share your side of the story. All that I can hope is that many people can learn from your experience.

1. The other riders were of mixed experience. The guy actually riding the hill... this is only his second year.. brand new hot sled and always itchin to see what it can do. The other guys including the one that hit it just before have been riding for a number of years but I would not say they had any actual training on evalutating conditions.


2. Ever since I decided to by my sled in February of this year, I've been doing my research as best I can on the web... none of which prepars you for the real deal. I was hesitant looking at that slope before anyone hit it. But that being said, all the slopes in the area looked heavily laden with snow and I didn't know the real danger from the perceived. As far as what advertisement would get me to visit them? I've never much been one for marketing. If the information is presented concisely and clearly then I will read it, if not then I'm much more likely to skim.

3. I had done some practicing with my gear, but not nearly enough to be comfortable with it in an emergency situation. The way I see it, on such a grand scope of terrain, it's next to pure luck to find anyone anyway. By the time you trudge through waist deep snow or deeper, it's tough to make any real progress and you have such a limited window of time to get to them. I'm confident those in my group would have got to him, but I'm not sure I would have.


4. The issue with the courses is proximity to where we live. We are from Edmonton. I, personally, am much less likely to drive 6 hours to go on a course than if it was offerred somewhere locally. Cost for me is not even the slightest of issues. I bought a brand new sled as my first ride and the best gear I could find because I know the value of buying the best you can if you are going to rely on it. When I take my course before next season, it will be convenience much more than cost that dictates where and when I take it.

 

[snoqueen]

It was on the CTV Calgary news @ 6pm... How much do the avy courses cost? I want to take one, but was thinking maybe more would take it if there was some kind of cost included with mountain sleds and you get a rebate if you register? People won't do anything like that it seems unless it is mandatory, or it is free (or some kinda rebate). I know you get money off if you are a member of some sled clubs, but again, not everyone is a member of those either.

The avy course being put on through Zac's Tracs costs $350 p/p...however if you can get 6 of your buddies together and if you are part of either the BCSF or the ASA they will give a $56 discount. So $294 tax included for a 2 day AST level 1 course. I am sick and tired of hearing sledders say they can't afford it.....LET'S SEE....you can afford a couple $12,000 sleds, you can afford to put mods on it, you can afford the suits, the helmets, the safety gear in the backpack,the gas, the oil, the truck and trailer to haul them around......and you can't afford the $300 to give yourself some valuable information that could save yourself or someone else?? What is your life worth to you??

You bet this course should be MANDATORY!! The dealers that sell these mountain sleds should be promoting this as STANDARD EQUIPMENT on the sleds they sell!! Every one of us sledders should be part of a club as well, not only are you supporting your local club.....you support snowmobiling as a whole and gives us more of a voice when fighting for our areas. Don't think for one minute that the tree huggers aren't looking at our numbers, either!! In light of all the avalanche fatalities this season we are going to have more areas taken away....snowmobiling as we know it won't be the same next season.

 

[elephant rider]

Even looking @ a snowmobile this year is virtually impossible to heed the warnings........................

 

[HRT Offroad]

[/COLOR]

1. The other riders were of mixed experience. The guy actually riding the hill... this is only his second year.. brand new hot sled and always itchin to see what it can do. The other guys including the one that hit it just before have been riding for a number of years but I would not say they had any actual training on evalutating conditions.


2. Ever since I decided to by my sled in February of this year, I've been doing my research as best I can on the web... none of which prepars you for the real deal. I was hesitant looking at that slope before anyone hit it. But that being said, all the slopes in the area looked heavily laden with snow and I didn't know the real danger from the perceived. As far as what advertisement would get me to visit them? I've never much been one for marketing. If the information is presented concisely and clearly then I will read it, if not then I'm much more likely to skim.

3. I had done some practicing with my gear, but not nearly enough to be comfortable with it in an emergency situation. The way I see it, on such a grand scope of terrain, it's next to pure luck to find anyone anyway. By the time you trudge through waist deep snow or deeper, it's tough to make any real progress and you have such a limited window of time to get to them. I'm confident those in my group would have got to him, but I'm not sure I would have.


4. The issue with the courses is proximity to where we live. We are from Edmonton. I, personally, am much less likely to drive 6 hours to go on a course than if it was offerred somewhere locally. Cost for me is not even the slightest of issues. I bought a brand new sled as my first ride and the best gear I could find because I know the value of buying the best you can if you are going to rely on it. When I take my course before next season, it will be convenience much more than cost that dictates where and when I take it.

Whoa...I'll definitely give you an "A" for honesty! As for everything else...

Zac's Tracs is doing a course in Valemount in a couple weeks...it would definitely be a great snow profile year for a course...

 

[ZRrrr]

I can't believe people are trying to be nice about this. It is shear stupidity to think you can get away with this when it's all over the news every week about hte risk, or some snowmobiler dying in an avalanche. Let's not sugar coat this people. What, because they survived it's a lesson learned....lesson should have been learned long before they even went to the mountains, newbies or not. You are extremely ignorant if you haven't seen or heard about all the deaths, the dangers and heeded all the warnings. There has been enough talk, enough internet banter, too many deaths colse to home, and enough media coverage that even a newbie should have known not to highmark, not to park below a chute and so on and so on.

What really pisses me off is how this video now has the potential to destroy one of my lifes passions. A small group of people who now may have F'd it up for a whole heck of a lot more.

And when did I get so pissed off about this......when I just saw that this has made the INTERNATIONAL NEWS!!!! So not only will it have local coverage, it will have national coverage and international coverage. Just what the government and extreme greens are chomping at for ammunition. This could very well be the final straw in some sort of provincial review or even better yet, permanent closures. Once that snowball start's down hill, it won't just stop at access to the mountains.

Sure, I'm happy you all survived. I want you to see just how serious this is going to get. Thanks for taking the time to THINK about your decisons and how your actions could effect a lot of people....thanks for nothing!

No sugar coating here. I've had enough.

Out!

 

[urbanstyles]

Right..

and you were a sheer pro first time out right? Don't dump on me man.. I'm just giving the first hand account. I never have and never will high mark.. that's my decision.. I am perfectly content to play in wide open fields of powder. I made one small goof.. having my sled pointed the wrong way.. so naturally you should take my sled away and never let me ride again right..

narrow minded??

 

[snoqueen]

I can't believe people are trying to be nice about this. It is shear stupidity to think you ca get away with this when it's all over the news every week that someone has died in an avalanche. Let's not sugar coat this people. What, because they survived it's a lesson learned....lesson should have been learned a long time before they even went to the mountains, newbies or not. You are extremely ignorant if you haven't seen or heard about the dangers and headed the warnings. There has been enough talk, enough internet banter, enough media coverage that even a newbie should have known to highmark, not to park below a chute and so on and so on.

What really pisses me off is how this video now has the potential to destroy one of my lifes passions. A small group of people who now may have F'd it up for a whole heck of a lot more.

And when did I get to pissed off about this......when I just saw that this has now made the INTERNATIONAL NEWS!!!! So this will now have local coverage, national coverage and even international coverage. Just what the government and extreme greens are chomping at. This could very well be the final straw in some sort of provincial review or even better yet, permanent closures. Once that snowball start's down hill, it won't just stop at access to the mountains.

Sure, I'm happy you all survived. I want you to see just how serious this is going to get. Thanks for taking the time to THINK about your decisons and how your actions could effect a lot of people....thanks for nothing!

No sugar coating here. I've had enough.

Out!

So true.....you said exactly what I was going to say. The mountain sledding freedom that we have enjoyed is going to be suddenly taken away. On one hand the video is a valuable tool but on the other....in the wrong hands it's just going to backfire.
ZacsTracs

 

[ZRrrr]

Whoa...I'll definitely give you an "A" for honesty! As for everything else...

Zac's Tracs is doing a course in Valemount in a couple weeks...it would definitely be a great snow profile year for a course...

Agreed! Your not making yourself out to be very smart. It's inconvenient to take a course 6 hours away, but sure was convenient to make a mountain trip inexperienced, convenient to sit at the bottom of a chute, convenient to let your buddy highmark, convenient to keep making excuses.......

 

[ZRrrr]

Right..

and you were a sheer pro first time out right? Don't dump on me man.. I'm just giving the first hand account. I never have and never will high mark.. that's my decision.. I am perfectly content to play in wide open fields of powder. I made one small goof.. having my sled pointed the wrong way.. so naturally you should take my sled away and never let me ride again right..

narrow minded??

We practiced with out gear at home before we left. We hired professional guides the first couple times and did lots of practicing/scenarios. No, not an expert, but use common sense and hopefully make smart decisions.

Man, if I was you I would have kept a very loooowww profile. This is going to be on every snwomobile website, every environmentalist/protectionist website, through government offices. I wouldn't want to be "that guy".

Just hope you do some good with the time you were lucky enough to be given.

Yes, maybe I am narrow minded. I lost someone I knew this year, and he WAS and expert. Enough is enough.

 

[urbanstyles]

Agreed! Your not making yourself out to be very smart. It's inconvenient to take a course 6 hours away, but sure was convenient to make a mountain trip inexperienced, convenient to sit at the bottom of a chute, convenient to let your buddy highmark, convenient to keep making excuses.......

I'm really not concerned about asserting my intelligence on a snowmobile forum website.. not the kind of vindication I seek in my life. Pretty sure my degree and my career give me that. Like I said.. i don't climb.. won't climb.. Did I trust the guys I was with too much.. maybe.. I've learned.. from now on my own safety is my own responsibility. Ask yourself.. would you listen to anything the greenest guy in the group had to say.. would you let him tell you how to tune your sled.. or what you are capable of or not.. I said my piece.. he chose to ride anyway.. not much I could do..

It was not a chute.. it was on top of a massive birm. I'm not making excuses .. nor is he.. no one is.. it was a mistake.. I'm not sure what you expect from me. I was asked a question and gave as honest of an answer as I could.

 

[maxwell]

why are you guys throwing the hammer down on this guy. he was at the bottom of the hill.

hes right, he told his friend what was up and theres nothing you can do once you said what you have to say.

you know how many "untrained" riders there are out there? lets say 75%+? if he was trained how would this have changed the situation at all?

this guy would still be at the bottom of the hill...common sensce?

we all know the guy that pulled that climb is the one in question here.

clearly im not impressed that its on national news either. but lets face it no need to

rip into this guy..maybe if the video was of him egging on his friend and laughing about it after.
not the case.

snowmobiling will not be shut down for tommorow! dont get your panties in a bunch.

sorry but if the highmarker comes on here by all means rip away. this guy told his story no differant than you or me being at the bottom wittnessing it.

 

[rknight111]

Guys, yes the people involved knew they made a mistake here and im sure there glad there all still here and not #24 or #25. I know this pisses people off to see more people hi-marking in these terrible conditions. Im suprised to see this activity as well. I was in the mountains 2 weeks ago playing in the meadows in a mid slope and an avy hit. Just 10 minutes we were in another area and I took a few pokes at a different slope facing another direction. On the third I couldn't stop thinking of avalanches and all and decided to stop, that was enough, I should know better. And I wasn't that high up either. So I decided to play in the trees and meadows and we got bit anyway beneath another untouched slope. Its just not worth it, there will be better snow next year, and Im hoping I can ride without watching my back all the time.
Now these people came to share there experience and we should learn more from that rather than give every one crap. I think they got enough from everyone allready, and Im sure there a little spooked, and they probably allready checked out Zacstracs website. And yes the news is trying to find every story they can get right now, the best thing they can get for some footage will be everyone at the Avalanche course Lauri is putting on in Valemount this month, this will help this whole thing and wash the hype away.

 

[urbanstyles]

*sigh* I give up.. or is that you guys don't read the whole thread and just snap off responses? Obviously everyone has heard of all the tragedies this year.. Like I said previously.. i said my piece to the guy that hit it. and there wasn't much more I could do.. i'm not his mother. We were sitting in a place that was deemed safe even if it slid. (and it was for the most part) Was I climbing? no.. I was taking it very easy.. not speeding down the track as you said. I'm not sure how you figure a guy is supposed to learn powder without at least going into the mountains somewhere... Had I been pointed away from the hill.. i would have ridden away without too much panic.. I've been talking to as many experienced guys as I can find and all of them have told me that there is plenty of safe terrain up there still.. you simply stay off the steep stuff and I was going no where near steep stuff. That being said, I'm not going to tuck tail and leave a good friend even if he is doing something that isn't the safest.