Raptor Shock problem on 15, T3 skid

[pfi572]

Spring spacers have been done before and used to be a BRP part ##.
They work great as used them years ago.
Nothing new and don't understand why they quite making them?

 

[Summitric]

Still on stock springs, but I have a HD set of springs to put in... Was gonna do them tomorrow nite


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[mountainsledmania]

Run up a bumpy trail for 15 minutes and the rear skid is sagged out, very little suspension remaining. Let it sit for awhile and the suspension comes back to full height.

As the sled sits now it is in my shop with zero sag. Collapses and rebounds as it should.

Anyone run into this problem or any idea what is going on??

I have a call into Jake@Raptor and waiting his call back.

Thanks,

question? are these raptors new? or used? if used when was the last time they were rebuilt?

 

[mountainsledmania]

The spring spacer for the torsional springs will help the coil run true. This isn't a new concept, we were putting them on the S-chassis back in the 90's. The issue that you are having with the Raptor shock is it is being overheated as it is being worked like crazy due to the excessive spring travel, which isn't the shock absorber's fault - it is meant to dampen load, not carry it. The fault lies in the stock Summit spring rate, they simply aren't heavy enough for an aggressive or heavy rider, and frankly, mountain sleds aren't trail sleds. In order to get a great trail ride, you would have to sacrifice back country performance (also why crossover sleds don't work well in the deep).
In a nutshell, as the spring heats up from oscillations, it gets weaker, and more load is placed on the damper (shock absorber). ALL manufacturers spring calibrations are designed for a 180 lb rider (out of the crate), whether it be ski-doo, polaris, etc. Hell, my wife rides hard enough that she can over ride the stock suspension on a ProRMK...
The answer is heavier springs, or a complete suspension upgrade. Both will be an improvement over stock, obviously the aftermarket skids will be of higher quality and better performance, as they are custom sprung and valved for your weight and riding style. A quality aftermarket coil over skid is light years ahead of anything offered by the OEM's, but it comes at a price.

Not trying to start war or anything here just stating my case. The misconception that the shock absorber has anything to do with ride height is common, in fact the dampeners only job is exactly that. Dampen events transferred through the skid. If the shock was to get hot, Gas law and fluid dynamics state that pressures within the absorber should become higher then normal resulting in poor dampening performance. Even if the shock was being worked hard enough to create such heat one would think that with the skid being berried in snow all day most of said heat would be dissipated through thermal transfer. The same concept would go for the spring generating heat as well if any at all it, BUT over time due to constant loading the springs do eventually loose there factory spring rate and need replacing, like clutch springs. That being said I completely agree with Oneoldfart that the summit spring set up is terrible at the best of times, and there's a number or ways to fix it. #1 center the spring on the shaft and try get the max amount of efficiency from the factory torsion springs(cheapest).#2 Buy a set of HD springs( witch have the same problem of factory springs IMO) #3 Buy a coil over set up for the rear arm.#4 buy a whole new skid(Most expensive). Just my 0.02$

 

[Grizzly4323]

question? are these raptors new? or used? if used when was the last time they were rebuilt?

New from stock Dec 2014 Snow Check. 900kms on them now.

 

[Summitric]

my raptors are less than one year old... came on new sled, and less than 500kms(not broke in yet)

 

[mountainsledmania]

for S**ts and giggle can you guys PM or post the spring part numbers off both of your sleds? the new t3 and the 14. They should be the same , but just curious

 

[Summitric]

According to the ski-doo parts list, they are the same... Part # 503193002/3

 

[Luke The Drifter]

I found that my stock springs were far, far too soft unless on setting 5. My first trip out on my T3 last year was frustrating for the first 2 days since all it wanted to do was trench out. Cranked the springs up to 5 and it was a whole new sled and actually fun to ride. I'll be looking into these spacers in the new year I think.

 

[sc800]

I found that my stock springs were far, far too soft unless on setting 5. My first trip out on my T3 last year was frustrating for the first 2 days since all it wanted to do was trench out. Cranked the springs up to 5 and it was a whole new sled and actually fun to ride. I'll be looking into these spacers in the new year I think.

Curious what you keep your front shocks at? I do not have raptors but was told if you run your fronts on setting 2 that your rear blocks should also be on setting 2?

 

[Grizzly4323]

Riding buddy has exact same sled, except he's running Fox shocks in the skid. I just spent that last three days riding with him and he has no sign of his sled sagging.. Rough trail or not!!

 

[Luke The Drifter]

Curious what you keep your front shocks at? I do not have raptors but was told if you run your fronts on setting 2 that your rear blocks should also be on setting 2?

I ran my front shocks (stock KYB units) at setting 1 for a bit but found it too soft. I bumped it up to #2 and so far that works for me. Next trip out I'm going to play with my suspension settings more and try and find a better setting for the conditions. I'd like to put a set of raptors on but that will have to wait for a while.

 

[0neoldfart]

Riding buddy has exact same sled, except he's running Fox shocks in the skid. I just spent that last three days riding with him and he has no sign of his sled sagging.. Rough trail or not!!

Are your springs set the same? (Front, center, rear?) Same rider weight? All I'm tying to get at is that the springs carry the load, not the shock. Sagging is indicative of weak springs or soft preload settings. The ONLY purpose your shocks have is to dampen spring oscillations, otherwise you'd be riding a pogo stick. Shock valving (compression and rebound damping) is dependant on spring rate, preload, and rider weight. From sitting at my computer, I cannot tell you if your shocks have failed or if moisture has entered them and they are freezing, but I can tell you to do a bounce test and determine if the shock is rebounding too quickly or too slowly. I doubt this is the case due to their age, more then likely your springs aren't set correctly for the load, or they are weak.

 

[Beels]

Are your springs set the same? (Front, center, rear?) Same rider weight? All I'm tying to get at is that the springs carry the load, not the shock. Sagging is indicative of weak springs or soft preload settings. The ONLY purpose your shocks have is to dampen spring oscillations, otherwise you'd be riding a pogo stick. Shock valving (compression and rebound damping) is dependant on spring rate, preload, and rider weight. From sitting at my computer, I cannot tell you if your shocks have failed or if moisture has entered them and they are freezing, but I can tell you to do a bounce test and determine if the shock is rebounding too quickly or too slowly. I doubt this is the case due to their age, more then likely your springs aren't set correctly for the load, or they are weak.

100% agree with this.

Repeat again, the shock has nothing to do with ride height. The only other thing I can suggest checking that 0neoldfart hasn't mentioned is suspension pivots that are binding. Not enough grease, the wrong grease or something bent or badly worn causing it to bind and not cycle properly.

 

[RGM]

depending on snow conditions your sled can collect a good weight of snow that will further sag the rear.

 

[Grizzly4323]

Pulled shocks and torsion springs out. Torsion springs are very weak, shocks have plenty of compression and rebound. Picked up a new set of HD springs that will be going in tomorrow..

DOO for the most part builds a good sled but the SKID is COMPLETE OUTDATED GARBAGE and has been for years!!

 

[markoo]

2015 Xm t3 174 I'm 250 plus backpack plus jerrycan plus tunnel bag full of stuff. I have stock springs set on #3. Sled hasn't bottomed out and does not sag. My last Xm(2013) was the same.

 

[oler1234]

Run up a bumpy trail for 15 minutes and the rear skid is sagged out, very little suspension remaining. Let it sit for awhile and the suspension comes back to full height.

As the sled sits now it is in my shop with zero sag. Collapses and rebounds as it should.

Anyone run into this problem or any idea what is going on??

I have a call into Jake@Raptor and waiting his call back.

Thanks,

there could be a couple things wrong here. 1 the shock may not be charged at all, if it rebounds back it most likely is charged. 2 it could be charge with air not nitrogen, in which case as you climb in elevation or work it, it will result in a sag. 3 it might not be charged to the proper pressure as require for the shock to perform properly. 4. it may not have been purged in the reservoir of all air properly. 5. most unlikely given there new, you blew a seal in the reservoir and the charge is now partially mixed in the actual shock fluid. 6 incorrect oil weight. people blame SAG when riding hard on springs when in fact it is the shocks that are failing. springs hold up the sled with your gear and you on it, they do not fade over riding. SAG is when you get on your sled and with you gear it is down... ALOT. Springs help to resist compression, everyone seems to think it is the spring job to do this solely. but in fact it is the shocks job to resist compression and rebound, that is what you paid for in custom shocks

 

[Grizzly4323]

there could be a couple things wrong here. 1 the shock may not be charged at all, if it rebounds back it most likely is charged. 2 it could be charge with air not nitrogen, in which case as you climb in elevation or work it, it will result in a sag. 3 it might not be charged to the proper pressure as require for the shock to perform properly. 4. it may not have been purged in the reservoir of all air properly. 5. most unlikely given there new, you blew a seal in the reservoir and the charge is now partially mixed in the actual shock fluid. 6 incorrect oil weight. people blame SAG when riding hard on springs when in fact it is the shocks that are failing. springs hold up the sled with your gear and you on it, they do not fade over riding. SAG is when you get on your sled and with you gear it is down... ALOT. Springs help to resist compression, everyone seems to think it is the spring job to do this solely. but in fact it is the shocks job to resist compression and rebound, that is what you paid for in custom shocks

Changed out the springs added a spacer/bushings inside the springs and still SAG sitting on the floor! now it makes sense to have the shocks checked out..

 

[skegpro]

Anyone on here try out the Raptor XM-ACE setup?

Looking for thoughts or a review on that setup.

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