I always start with weight, because no matter how much power you make, it isn't helping you lift that track out once you have trenched it good. Yes power may have saved you from having to dig it out, but it will eventually happen regardless. Also lighter sleds float better, and are less wearing to ride all day.
Power or Weight? what wins....
- Thread starter Modman
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- #42
Yeah, but you boosted guys are missing the point of cost. I don't want to turn this into a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke boosted debate, that horse is dead. Sure you're down at 2.1lb/hp, but at what cost? If $$$$ is no object then we'd all be riding beryllium chassis twin turbos, but since $$$ plays a factor for most people, what gets you the most bang for your buck? and where. All that turbo weight is higher up on the sled, meaning more weight to move back and forth up high, and more to lift.
What if you only ran the 270 kit on pump gas (or the pump gas big bore kit on your 2 stroke), but dropped a bunch of extraneous weight or stuff that was cheaper than the bigger turbo? The kit would cost you less, fuel would cost you less, and you would have almost the same power to weight and it might be positioned better on the sled. Also wouldn't be as heavy to get unstuck - 2 stroke or 4 stroke this applies to any sled.
Just some things to think about.
Longhairfreak
Active VIP Member
One thing I know for sure is that the lighter your sled is the more beer and whiskey you can drink after a hard day of riding.
oler1234
Active VIP Member
Something that has not been mentioned is the heavier the sled, the more draining on the rider. My xp i can throw this thing around and run balls out all day. Tossin around a 650lb beast is gonna be a hand full. Myself i am 170lbs rider, i would not be able to do it. That 650lb monster, i would think u would need to be atleast 200 plus to toss it around hard all day or atleast the way i ride. And if you are 200lbs+ rider.... you gonna need that extra power to go places.
As well no one mentioned recovery when a guy has a screw up. Plenty of videos on you tube showin a heavy sled catchin air... lands... and buries it self where the something lighter muscles through just cause of weight. Same could be said for boondocker.
My opinion, bottom line is the numbers always favor power, but there is alot of merit to ridin balls out and not being so wore out you cannot go on day 2 or 3 just as hard as day 1. Just what you want at the end of the day.
As well no one mentioned recovery when a guy has a screw up. Plenty of videos on you tube showin a heavy sled catchin air... lands... and buries it self where the something lighter muscles through just cause of weight. Same could be said for boondocker.
My opinion, bottom line is the numbers always favor power, but there is alot of merit to ridin balls out and not being so wore out you cannot go on day 2 or 3 just as hard as day 1. Just what you want at the end of the day.
Longhairfreak
Active VIP Member
You need to be a HEMAN to toss around a Yammie all day. Very few can.
Timber_12
Active VIP Member
One minor point might be that if one goes too lightweight and rides really hard, too lightweight isn't always good. I know my first set of m8 hcr rails didn't last long and ruined a decent ride.
But..... from my experience this year so far and last years, I'm definately definately regretting buying a turbo. I would have been miles ahead to have big bored and lightened than the money I have into the turbo.
But..... from my experience this year so far and last years, I'm definately definately regretting buying a turbo. I would have been miles ahead to have big bored and lightened than the money I have into the turbo.
MrMorgan
Active VIP Member
Timber, that's the first time I've heard someone say they regret the turbo. Even a guy a ride with that had his burst in to flames still swore by the $36,000 purchase. When I showed him the Brett Rasmussen videos boondocking, he said, "I could never do that." He can bench presh over 300 lbs and he weighs over 250, but he even said he couldn't side-hill and flick back and forth like we see some guys do on stock m8s.
Pistonbroke
Active VIP Member
I am so confused right now...LHF actually made two posts in a single thread that contain some relevance to the topic. Can anyone help me explain this phenomenon? I am calling William Shatner for guidance...brb.
powderpilot
Active VIP Member
I just came off of a stock XP onto an M8 turbo. I have to say, the only time the weight is a factor is when I am moving it in and out of the shop, or getting unstuck, which is almost never because of the extra HP.
I watched my hubby pull the same line I did last year on his TM8 on 6#s. Me on my XP, I'm 125 lbs, and he is about 190. He flew up it, and I had to work it to get out. I would say that I had the advantage on the power to weight ratio.
Anyway, you can get as light as you want, but if you don't have the power to turn the track, it's useless... I vote BOOST!!!
I watched my hubby pull the same line I did last year on his TM8 on 6#s. Me on my XP, I'm 125 lbs, and he is about 190. He flew up it, and I had to work it to get out. I would say that I had the advantage on the power to weight ratio.
Anyway, you can get as light as you want, but if you don't have the power to turn the track, it's useless... I vote BOOST!!!
Longhairfreak
Active VIP Member
All my posts have relevance the people just dont get it.
Timber_12
Active VIP Member
MrMorgan....... due to work my sledding season consists of about 3 or 4 trips to the mountains per year. I'm on my third season with my m8 and I have 342 miles on it. I had 270 on it when i put the turbo on. My few chances to go riding with my friends in the mountains are worth too much to be sitting at home while my sled is in the shop. And ironically where is my sled right now? In the shop.
Right now I feel I would have been many miles ahead putting the 10k plus into lightening it rather than a turbo and race gas. Perhaps at least I wouldn't have to borrow the girlfriends sled to ride.
Right now I feel I would have been many miles ahead putting the 10k plus into lightening it rather than a turbo and race gas. Perhaps at least I wouldn't have to borrow the girlfriends sled to ride.
Rucky
Active VIP Member
In regards to the "people not having issues with turbos" comment: That is mostly because most guys aren't willing to put their tail between their legs to come out and admit their sled really doesn't work. And I know they're out there... Always see guys playing with boondockers etc.
muffin
Active member
Have had very lite sleds lots of HP, have boosted sled as well , heavy of cource, used to ride the very lite sled on tits deep days and the apex on less snow days, didnt want to get that thing stuck,after learning how to better ride the apex, got rid of most of my lite sleds. with the apex type power weight seems to not matter
MrMorgan
Active VIP Member
Thanks Timber. That's brutal honesty.
I have a saying: A team of engineers put that sled together, and you think you are going to improve on that work with something out of the back of a magazine?
I like accessories, I like lighter parts, but when it comes to engine mods I usually leave it to the manufacturers to do the r&d for me. They have deeper pockets. I find it easier to sell stock sleds too. Since I change so frequently, that's a factor for me.
I vote stock motor, lighter components. The only problem is, these new sleds are so light where do you trim? Carbon fiber and titanium are the only things left and they are not as cheap. Remeber when a boss seat saved you over 15 lbs for $500. Try and take 15 lbs off you skid, tunnel, etc for that kind of money. I think the day will come where I ride completly stock quads and sleds because the oems will have nailed it.
I have a saying: A team of engineers put that sled together, and you think you are going to improve on that work with something out of the back of a magazine?
I like accessories, I like lighter parts, but when it comes to engine mods I usually leave it to the manufacturers to do the r&d for me. They have deeper pockets. I find it easier to sell stock sleds too. Since I change so frequently, that's a factor for me.
I vote stock motor, lighter components. The only problem is, these new sleds are so light where do you trim? Carbon fiber and titanium are the only things left and they are not as cheap. Remeber when a boss seat saved you over 15 lbs for $500. Try and take 15 lbs off you skid, tunnel, etc for that kind of money. I think the day will come where I ride completly stock quads and sleds because the oems will have nailed it.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
Got to the top of the trail today and 4 feet of fresh snow. Buddy blew his oil line and took out his turbo before he even got to the best snow of the year.....no thanks
- Thread starter
- #56
There's a ton of weight to be saved on the newer sleds, you just gotta look for it. There's a saying in racing - Every ounce counts. Also, light weight means nothing without strength. Carbon Fiber is great until you hit something at anything faster than a walking speed with it, then it becomes an expensive paperweight. I'd rather have something aluminum or titanium that I can repair instead of buying a whole new part. And I'd rather take the weight off the top of my sled to keep the CG low, where component strength for striking objects hidden in the snow does not need to to be as high.
- Thread starter
- #57
OK, how many guys went riding this weekend and wrecked their 2 stroke? One sled with a blown oil line should not be used to judge many others. Where did it blow, on the end of the line at the coupler or in the middle? End of the line at the coupler - I would say it wasn't tight enough, not a sled's fault, that is operator error.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
my point is its another mechanical system and it greatly increases the chances of failure. at least he would have been riding his sled that day if it didnt have a million turbo parts to fail
tundra twin track
Active VIP Member
I built a Mod Indy Lite Fancooled with a forward rolled chaincase in 2002 that weighed 364 lbs. and at 65 HP would get around in DEEP fantastic,compared to the 500 lbs. 800's at the time.When you do the lbs. per HP the Lite shoud not have worked at all?
overkill131313
Active VIP Member
5000 boosted miles and zero problems! oh its a yamaha.......they run forever! yes they are heavy but point and shoot! A two stroke is hit and miss if you will get out with out blowing it up! But a lighter sled is also easier to tow out! lol
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