Kanedog discovers a Clutching CATastrophy, again. Pics!

kanedog

Active VIP Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
8,615
Location
Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
I recently read about some 2018+ Arctic Cat Ascender primary clutch failures and it shook some clutching cobwebs off my brain.
Last year while checking the full shift out clutch action, I discovered the cover bushing prevents the clutch from fully closing at or near full shift out. The bushing stops the shift out and the force of the weights trying to close the clutch puts tremendous strain on the cover and moveable sheave. It is effectively pulling the cover and sheave apart with incredible force. Over time, the components may flex and weaken with each full shift out so the clutch may not fail immediately. At some point, the metal will be fatigued from flexing and eventually the cover and/or sheave would likely fail. At 8000rpm, a single failure point on the cover or sheave would likely result in a catastrophic failure. The speed in which pieces can be projected are quite high.
I would suspect the clutch failure to happen more in the flatland riding areas where the clutch is more likely to reach overdrive and full shift out. In the mountains and tree riding, the riding is slower and clutch loading is more. Most mountain riders won’t really see 1-1 ratio or overdrive as the sled is geared for a 72mph at 1-1. The majority of mountain riders rarely hit 65 mph. There may be less failures in the mountain regions.
One fellow sledder said that his friends that are doing 270’s and big air tricks are seeing some failures. They use wfo to help rotate the sled while in the air. When going wfo and no load on the clutches, the clutches go to full shift out. The cover and moveable sheave flex, causing metal fatigue and start down the road to future failure.
There is about a .060” gap when the Team clutch is fully shifted out. Normally, the two clutch sheaves butted against each other are what stops the shifting at full shift out. The load is taken by the beefy spider. But not on the Team clutch. The cover is stopping full shift out and taking all the load.
I’m surprised this got by the clutching dept. and quality control. But then Team isn’t exactly known for quality either.
Anyhoo, Textron I am available to develop a better clutching system with you. It can easily be done cheaper, better and simpler than the current system. The components already exist and Cat has an existing belt that will fit perfect. No new belt design required. There are just too many moving parts. The sloppy tolerances and poor designs combined is wearing the primary and secondary components too quickly. This affects performance, reliability and in in some cases, causes liability. Even if the tolerances were tightened up, the many moving pieces would likely bind. There is already is major binding in the secondary with the loose tolerances.
Craig Kennedy is welcome to R and D with me as we can tune up to July. I have built the combination that will put Cat in front for at least seven years with no motor modifications. Come and check it out. The Alpha clutching and a couple other things are leaving about 30% performance on the table.
I’m not being a smart ass but how many high paid engineers and multi million dollar suppliers missed the clutch cover issue? It’s kinda basic clutch knowledge is why I ask. How did this liability issue get past Team industries? This issue may get costly. Lowest bidder is not always best.
I’m in western Canada and I work for free. I don’t want any money or anything. I don’t have anything to sell and I have no alterior motive except to make Cat lead by a long shot. Let’s do this.
The above are my beliefs.

de97d7c53cd8f6f81e46b0f79ddfaf94.plist
Notice #1 the edge of the metal is bent out from the cover being pulled in. #2 is the result after a number of flexing events. #3 although not shown, could be the departing of the cracked piece from the clutch at high speed.
c6156584d1dfccc757f5436085a22289.plist
]
97dfd39c224689bc10713b0c7ca004b9.plist
797a84155ae93f57f807c4036464c741.png
f9d267f3952cff208708794c7c1fb4bf.png
 
Last edited:

kingcat162

Active VIP Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,292
Reaction score
1,582
Location
Alberta
Too bad you couldn't just put a doo Tra primary clutch on there - mine works flawlessly now - are the primary clutches on the old 2004 kingcat 900 like the new ones? It works flawlessly too - except you can't wrap a rope around the primary in order to start it all day long tends to loosen the internal nut and nuke it
 
Last edited:

lilduke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
18,087
Reaction score
64,317
Location
Local
Is that an 18? I think they might have fixed that for 19.
 

S.W.A.T.

Active VIP Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
4,449
Reaction score
7,689
Location
Smithers
You might just save cat with this discovery. I hope you patented the fix kit
 

lilduke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
18,087
Reaction score
64,317
Location
Local
It’s not mine so I don’t know what year it is. Mines a ‘19 and doesn’t fully close. Do you know what the ‘18 problem was and what was the fix? This would be good info to know.
..

No but I had a few buddies that had the clutch explode on their 18's. I haven't seen it on a 19. Thought they fixed it, guess not.
 

jpmez69

Active VIP Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
781
Reaction score
1,574
Location
Edmonton

kanedog

Active VIP Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
8,615
Location
Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
..

No but I had a few buddies that had the clutch explode on their 18's. I haven't seen it on a 19. Thought they fixed it, guess not.

Hold that thought. Further investigation is required. The past clutch recall was kinda hush hush and not a lot of info on it. I’m on it. I will find out what the issue was with the 18’s and see why 19’s are having issues. I know some North American dealers that stock a lot of replacement clutches. Hmmmm.
 

kanedog

Active VIP Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
8,615
Location
Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
Timeline-Jan. 25, 2017 Textron buys Arctic Cat.
June 6, 2017 Textron recalls approx 2,700 sleds to avoid flying clutch parts. Unknown if this defect was known by Textron before purchase. It is not clear if the recall is voluntary or mandatory.
June 6, 2019-Kanedog notes clutch cover/spider nut interference, preventing full shift out. Potential safety issue.


There are two types of recalls. Voluntary and mandatory. With voluntary, the company works fast to recall the affected items. They basically admit there’s an issue and promise to fix it right away. Mandatory is where a company is required by law, to issue a recall. This requires a ton of paperwork, auditing, records, more expensive etc. Both are done to keep the consumer safe against injury or harm.


Here’s the issue with the Cat Clutch recall. It’s only done on approx 2,700 machines according to the recall notice. There are more than 2,700 faulty clutches in circulation. Clutches on some 18’s and 19’s are still exploding. Additionally, people like myself have bought stock clutches from the dealer that aren’t included in the recall. Those clutches are still out there waiting to fail. Worse yet, the clutches made after the recall dates are still defective because of the cover bushing/spider nut interference. How do I know? I have one in my hand rt now. It has a serial number and date on it. There has been no recall for these. Team and Cat know how many clutches are out there but the recall doesn’t reach far enough to catch them all.


How does Team/Cat locate all of the affected clutches? What Team/Cat employees knew of the defects? Who signed off on the clutches? Is there some skull duggery going on? Why isn’t there more transparency? This dealio has a slight smell of “swept under the ruggery” going on. It seems kinda sketch and foggy to me. It’s not as if this a intermittent head light or thumb warmer problem. An exploding clutch is the most serious issue a sled and human can have. I have no goal other than to bring this safety sitch to light and inform the sledding hoes about clutchgate.


I did have a Cat clutch explode one time. It was on a 1996 Thundercat 900 triple. 1piece went through the bellypan, one went 150ft in front of me and one piece went straight up about 40ft. The crazy thing we just came off the mountain and this was the only lake crossing. It was late spring with open water and slush when the clutch went kablooey. In order to avoid drowning a heli was used for extraction. We used to wear our life jackets across the lake and hang them on the trees on the far side of the lake. We would ride all day then put them on to cross back after riding. Callaghan lake for the old schoolers here. A lil humor story for y’all.
 
Last edited:

jhurkot

Active VIP Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
3,915
Reaction score
15,257
Location
Monarch, AB
..

No but I had a few buddies that had the clutch explode on their 18's. I haven't seen it on a 19. Thought they fixed it, guess not.

They definitely are not fixed for 2019 from what I have seen. If you ride a cat, pack duct tape and a torch. Check your primary clutch for cracks after every ride. Don't sidehill on the clutch side ever.

Also seen sleds that had the recall done (based on VIN) have problems.

7bd8891f301cd68c85c2e31e56bd6ecc.jpg
 
Last edited:

Caper11

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
9,529
Reaction score
18,584
Location
Edson,Alberta

kingcat162

Active VIP Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,292
Reaction score
1,582
Location
Alberta
I'm telling ya - that is a good clutch setup right there - if I can find a job - I will bring this kingat and challenge u to the top 1st of the southside face at piper @ eagles - I also geared this down a bit so everyone will be I think very surprised
3b548f3244fe0e37dff88fa931de2730.jpg
 

lilduke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
18,087
Reaction score
64,317
Location
Local
Timeline-Jan. 25, 2017 Textron buys Arctic Cat.
June 6, 2017 Textron recalls approx 2,700 sleds to avoid flying clutch parts. Unknown if this defect was known by Textron before purchase. It is not clear if the recall is voluntary or mandatory.
June 6, 2019-Kanedog notes clutch cover/spider nut interference, preventing full shift out. Potential safety issue.


There are two types of recalls. Voluntary and mandatory. With voluntary, the company works fast to recall the affected items. They basically admit there’s an issue and promise to fix it right away. Mandatory is where a company is required by law, to issue a recall. This requires a ton of paperwork, auditing, records, more expensive etc. Both are done to keep the consumer safe against injury or harm.


Here’s the issue with the Cat Clutch recall. It’s only done on approx 2,700 machines according to the recall notice. There are more than 2,700 faulty clutches in circulation. Some people, like myself, have bought stock clutches from the dealer that aren’t included in the recall. Those clutches are still out there waiting to fail. Worse yet, the clutches made after the recall dates are still defective because of the cover bushing/spider nut interference. How do I know? I have one in my hand rt now. It has a serial number and date on it. There has been no recall for these. Team and Cat know how many clutches are out there but the recall doesn’t reach far enough to catch them all.
How does Team/Cat locate all of the affected clutches? Is the company aware of the problem? Who signed off on the clutches? Is there some skull duggery going on? Why isn’t there more transparency? It seems kinda sketch and foggy to me. These are some thought provoking questions. I have no goal other than to bring this safety sitch to light and inform the sledding hoes about clutchgate.


I did have a Cat clutch explode one time. It was on a 1996 Thundercat 900 triple. 1piece went through the bellypan, one went 150ft in front of me and one piece went straight up about 40ft. The crazy thing we just came off the mountain and this was the only lake crossing. It was late spring with open water and slush when the clutch went kablooey. In order to avoid drowning a hell was used for extraction. We used to wear our life jackets across the lake and hang them on the trees on the far side of the lake. We would ride all day then put them on to cross back after riding. Callaghan lake for the old schoolers here. A lil humor story for y’all.

good on you for bringing clutch gate to light.

I talked about it for a couple years now, but was dismissed as a dootard conspiracy. :sadbanana:
 
Last edited:

acesup800

Active VIP Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
1,403
Reaction score
2,572
Location
BC
They definitely are not fixed for 2019 from what I have seen. If you ride a cat, pack duct tape and a torch. Check your primary clutch for cracks after every ride. Don't sidehill on the clutch side ever.

Also seen sleds that had the recall done (based on VIN) have problems.

Right, because Cat clutches are exploding everyday on the hill:rolleyes:
 

kingcat162

Active VIP Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,292
Reaction score
1,582
Location
Alberta
The ol' kingcat clutch can even handle NOS no problem - I wonder how these newer clutches would look after a shot of NOS
 
Top Bottom