Drive Shaft issue
- Thread starter sledneck_03
- Start date
tex78
Active VIP Member
Ok so Ur saying the Ford's in ok tire keep the sled-habit going then.
sent from my htc
Chrisco
Active VIP Member
LOL Not realy I send the fords away, but do alot of chev and dodge to keep the sled habit going.
channonmanuel
Active VIP Member
Went for a ride on my new pro today with 3 other guys on 2013 pros went about 30 miles no issues with anything on them, 2 of them have close to 100 miles on them with no issues, 2 were white le's and one was a regular black one and a retro
BrosBeforeHos
Active VIP Member
I've run Polaris since 1996 my loyalty runs deep so it saddens me to have to vent this...Any idiot who glues driveline components together and thinks they are going to hold up to the punishment should be kicking a pop can down the road. I know that if you've changed a design, you need to work the kinks out, but to let your customers be the patsies is bullch!t. These items should and could be tested before going to manufacturing, and ya know what maybe it costed to much to manufacture it in the USA so they out source the god damn thing to China. Saving weight is what everyone likes to see, but at the cost of strength in a major driveline component. C'mon really!! I'll take the 4 extra pounds in welds if it means making it off the mountain thanks. I've been though this kind of bullch!t with Polaris before (my Assault went through three motors) and if it wasn't for my dealer I would have thought about going another way. I sure hope this isn't a repeat of that fiasco. I wish everyone luck on this one. Picking up my new Pro just might have to wait...shame on you Polaris. SHAME ON YOU!! Or perhaps SHAME ON ME for defending you this long.
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My best friend works with Polaris, and he talked to them yesterday. I quess the bonding agent if done properly is stronger than a weld(it has been tested many, many times). From what they have seen it looks like a couple have not been bonded properly or even at all.
teeroy
Active VIP Member
I think it is the same problem they had with the a arm glue, it didn't cure properly. the one guy said his was soft and he wiped some off, most others say the glue they can touch is rock hard. on the pictures of failed shafts i've seen so far, it doesn't look like there was any glue, I think it all wiped off when the parts spun loose.
BIGHORN1
Active VIP Member
Being an automotive mechanic and working in this field for years one must remember that gm used to glue together driveline parts for many years. All the the 70's and into the 80's the u- joint cups where glued into the drive shaft. I had a 1975 Camaro that had 170 0000 km on it and at that point it became a street stock on the local dirt tracks . I raced that car for 5 years and the factory glue in u- joint on the pinion was still going strong .
Same principal here, if it is done properly and the glue cures properly it will more than likely last the life of the sled.
just a thought.
kyle019
Active VIP Member
It would make a lot of sense if it is improper bonding. The bonding method is used in other industries and is said to have a really strong hold when done correctly.. Same idea as bonded sled trailers, the aluminum is supposed to tear before the bond lets go, but if it isn't applied correctly its not gonna last
RK Tek
Active member
The Polaris shaft Is solid in the tunnel
IMO.. it is the chicken or the egg scenario... What fails first?? The Glue or the Shaft extrusion?
Here is the way it looks to me..
1) The shaft is mounted solid at each end within the tunnel. ANY lateral movement would and could only occur if the tunnel flexes vis unwarranted stress (upward, downward, or angled force that allows the the tunnel to change from its 90 degree contact with the shaft.
2) Without #1 (above) happening, the end caps will remain "mated" in the extrusion and "happy"
3)IMO, #1 above is a a very real possibility and ,IMO, happening. So, it is my opinion, that there is upward movement on the end pieces in the shaft..
So, what happens first?
a)Scenario #1 PROVIDING, the extrusion stays intact, the tunnel would have to seperate/flex OUTWARD by the distance of the end cap's insert in order for there to be complete seperation.. This, IMO, is VERY unlikely because this distance is too great and complete laterall only movement is a near impossibility. WHY? because each end is bound..
b)Scenario #2: The flex/movement of the end caps is NOT lateral but angular. So, the tunnel flexes (for whatever reason) and this puts an angular force on the end caps in the driveshaft.. Now, what happens?? IMO, this angular force will obviously try and "cock" the end caps and shaft.. when this occurs, the glue bond MAY or MAY NOT be broken. BUT.. the hex end caps are still being "held" in the extrusion (shaft) at 6 points (exactly like a socket on a bolt head) and if the glue remains in tact, at each sde as well.. So, in theory, there should be no problem with the end cap moving in the shaft.. and all is well..
c)Scenario #3: #2 happens.. The glue remains bonded. BUT.. the forces at play are too much for the thin walled shaft extrusion.. So, you have angular forces on "mated" pieces that are solid... BUT, these angular forces are TOO much for the extrustions outer wall and it fractures . This is what I think happens.
Once this fracture occurs, NOW, the end caps no longer need to only move laterally to seperate from the shaft. NOR are they being held at all 6 corners and possibly the flats.
So, the end cap can and will find a way to detach itself from the shaft... and after this happens.. we know the result.. Track is wadded up in the tunnel, driver takes a trip over the windshield.. NOT GOOD!
So, since it is my opinion that the WEAK extrusion and the fracturing of this weak extrusion is, in the end, the initial failure point, the device we have designed and produced will GREATLY strengthen the failure area of the extrusion's outer wall and HOPEFULLY, stop the complete failure..
IF the outer wall of the extrusion never fails and the glue holds there should be no failure.
If the outer wall of the extrusion never fails and the glue does NOT hold, then you are still holding the end caps at all 6 corners and it should not fail until you overcome the required twisting forces required to "strip" the inner side of the outer-wall.
Keep in mind, the GLUE is not the ONLY material that is holding the end cap in the shaft. The 6 points are also holding it in place,, just like a socket and a bolt.. No glue is required to remove a bolt using a socket..
IMO.. it is the chicken or the egg scenario... What fails first?? The Glue or the Shaft extrusion?
Here is the way it looks to me..
1) The shaft is mounted solid at each end within the tunnel. ANY lateral movement would and could only occur if the tunnel flexes vis unwarranted stress (upward, downward, or angled force that allows the the tunnel to change from its 90 degree contact with the shaft.
2) Without #1 (above) happening, the end caps will remain "mated" in the extrusion and "happy"
3)IMO, #1 above is a a very real possibility and ,IMO, happening. So, it is my opinion, that there is upward movement on the end pieces in the shaft..
So, what happens first?
a)Scenario #1 PROVIDING, the extrusion stays intact, the tunnel would have to seperate/flex OUTWARD by the distance of the end cap's insert in order for there to be complete seperation.. This, IMO, is VERY unlikely because this distance is too great and complete laterall only movement is a near impossibility. WHY? because each end is bound..
b)Scenario #2: The flex/movement of the end caps is NOT lateral but angular. So, the tunnel flexes (for whatever reason) and this puts an angular force on the end caps in the driveshaft.. Now, what happens?? IMO, this angular force will obviously try and "cock" the end caps and shaft.. when this occurs, the glue bond MAY or MAY NOT be broken. BUT.. the hex end caps are still being "held" in the extrusion (shaft) at 6 points (exactly like a socket on a bolt head) and if the glue remains in tact, at each sde as well.. So, in theory, there should be no problem with the end cap moving in the shaft.. and all is well..
c)Scenario #3: #2 happens.. The glue remains bonded. BUT.. the forces at play are too much for the thin walled shaft extrusion.. So, you have angular forces on "mated" pieces that are solid... BUT, these angular forces are TOO much for the extrustions outer wall and it fractures . This is what I think happens.
Once this fracture occurs, NOW, the end caps no longer need to only move laterally to seperate from the shaft. NOR are they being held at all 6 corners and possibly the flats.
So, the end cap can and will find a way to detach itself from the shaft... and after this happens.. we know the result.. Track is wadded up in the tunnel, driver takes a trip over the windshield.. NOT GOOD!
So, since it is my opinion that the WEAK extrusion and the fracturing of this weak extrusion is, in the end, the initial failure point, the device we have designed and produced will GREATLY strengthen the failure area of the extrusion's outer wall and HOPEFULLY, stop the complete failure..
IF the outer wall of the extrusion never fails and the glue holds there should be no failure.
If the outer wall of the extrusion never fails and the glue does NOT hold, then you are still holding the end caps at all 6 corners and it should not fail until you overcome the required twisting forces required to "strip" the inner side of the outer-wall.
Keep in mind, the GLUE is not the ONLY material that is holding the end cap in the shaft. The 6 points are also holding it in place,, just like a socket and a bolt.. No glue is required to remove a bolt using a socket..
sledhead80
Active member
RK Tek
Active member
You do not need glue to turn a bolt with a 6 point socket.. The glue on this shaft is added strength (and it needs it)
IMO--> if there was no glue, AND there was NO "flex" then the 6 points of contact would hold the end caps in place on its own..
But, the reality is.. there is MAJOR flex and the flex is angular in direction.
This flex fractures the extrusion and THIS is what causes the total failure..
The pictures show this clearly..
Again.. you can turn a 1" bolt with a hex head 1" socket without slippage..
Angle the socket a tad and try again... what happens??? FAILURE.. it slips off the bolt head.. SAME with this shaft.. It is no different.. IMO, of course
teeroy
Active VIP Member
well, it's sure not what I pictured the kit would look like.
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snopro
Active VIP Member
I'm pretty sure Polaris is going to fix this free of charge for the customer very shortly....
trench
Active VIP Member
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duck
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I wonder if they are working on a fix? (Polaris)
sledhead80
Active member
Hmm good idea... just thought it would be something different than that. I would feel better if you could rivet it on instead of doing up a bolt. Not knocking it just my 2 cents..
Summiteer
Active VIP Member
Hopefully a bad batch of glue.........
RK Tek
Active member
Rivets introduce the possibility of fracture. AND, many people are not comfortable drilling and riveting a shaft..Not to mention, if Polaris does this ona warranty basis vs a recall.. the riveted ones will not be covered.
If the shaft can not "tear" then the end cap can not seperate from the shaft and fail.. This clamp we have is VERY custom.. you can not tell from the installed pic, but it mates the shaft to a Tee... it WILL strengthen the problem area and greatly reduce the ability of it failing. AND, it will not void your warranty..
The end cap can not rotate if the out shaft does not fracture or buldge.. with this on there, it will not be able to fracture.. without it, it is free to fracture which will cause end cap rotation.
The real fix will come from Polaris but ordering, and I am guessing, 5,000+ shafts and having your dealer install them at their leisure, is NOT going to be a quick deal.. this will take MONTHs and MONTHs... in the mean time, this kit we offer should greatly reduce the failure rate and keep you on the snow....If you do experience failure, you will not be able to easily get your sled out of the backcountry because the sled will not be able to "roll"
We are doing this as a "stop gap" measure until Polaris steps up.. Again,, the downtime associated with this failure is HUGE.. as is the expense..
If the shaft can not "tear" then the end cap can not seperate from the shaft and fail.. This clamp we have is VERY custom.. you can not tell from the installed pic, but it mates the shaft to a Tee... it WILL strengthen the problem area and greatly reduce the ability of it failing. AND, it will not void your warranty..
The end cap can not rotate if the out shaft does not fracture or buldge.. with this on there, it will not be able to fracture.. without it, it is free to fracture which will cause end cap rotation.
The real fix will come from Polaris but ordering, and I am guessing, 5,000+ shafts and having your dealer install them at their leisure, is NOT going to be a quick deal.. this will take MONTHs and MONTHs... in the mean time, this kit we offer should greatly reduce the failure rate and keep you on the snow....If you do experience failure, you will not be able to easily get your sled out of the backcountry because the sled will not be able to "roll"
We are doing this as a "stop gap" measure until Polaris steps up.. Again,, the downtime associated with this failure is HUGE.. as is the expense..
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