2022 boost on the dyno. 196 hp!!!!

[ctd]

LOL Ok, I'm not the most coherent at times, too many thoughts rolling around in the noggin. Simple version - Anytime you are looking at dyno data - NEVER compare peak HP #'s. HP is only a calculation of torque and RPM divided by a constant (5252) so you need to look at torque, not HP. Look at 2 points inside the data and compare them instead. At 7200 RPM, the Doo and the Poo are neck and neck in torque (122 vs 125). 3 ft/lbs of torque difference is nothing and would never be noticed on the hill.

Dyno numbers are very misleading on the surface & there are factors & data you need to know if you want to compare. Consistent & repeatable results are the builder & operators nightmare's. I think you & I could have a fun conversation about that. You mentioned BSFC, EGT's & AFR's, I just mentioned they were corrected numbers.....most don't want to hear about what those other factors & data tell us if the power gain or loss is real. Most important is if the motor will "live" making that power number........

The Poo keeps building torque past 7200rpm & that's the number that will rotate the track, it's good & notable. We can think of HP as the number that accelerates us, then the torque that backs it up & keeps that track turning hi load.

Myself for tuning I always watch for the rpm difference between peak torque & HP, indicates the clutching difficulty.

 

[sledneck__11]

i'll be honest... 95% of riders will not use 196hp sled (regardless of brand) to anywhere near its potential.

It is really cool to see power level that high. 15yrs ago you had to spend a ton of cash to get something around 200hp.

About 25-30 grand lol same as a sled price now

 

[team dirt]

Looks like delivery is pushed out again to the end of the year.

To be fair, Doo is having their delivery issues as well.

Just got word that 2 truckloads are heading to GVP. If all goes well should have my 175 for Xmas. WOOT WOOT

 

[oler1234]

Just got word that 2 truckloads are heading to GVP. If all goes well should have my 175 for Xmas. WOOT WOOT

175 is awesome, Good choice.

 

[Modman]

Dyno numbers are very misleading on the surface & there are factors & data you need to know if you want to compare. Consistent & repeatable results are the builder & operators nightmare's. I think you & I could have a fun conversation about that. You mentioned BSFC, EGT's & AFR's, I just mentioned they were corrected numbers.....most don't want to here about how those other factors & data tell us if the power gain or loss is real. Most important is if the motor will "live" making that power number........

The Poo keeps building torque past 7200rpm & that's the number that will rotate the track, it's good & notable. We can think of HP as the number that accelerates us, then the torque that backs it up & keeps that track turning hi load.

Myself for tuning I always watch for the rpm difference between peak torque & HP, indicates the clutching difficulty.

Yeah for sure, many other factors to it than even the dyno sheets and honestly, I never really look at the peak numbers because every correction can be different and every tuner is different. Big thing for me is how long the line stays flat at peak torque, this is going to determine how the motor responds and how easy it is to clutch. The Doo and the Poo motors are very different. Yes the Poo has a higher peak, but its got far larger pistons on a much shorter stroke and its been lightened a lot, compared to the smaller bore but much longer stroke on the Doo. The bore is the same as the old Liberty 800, just with a 74 mm stroke to get the displacement. I haven't seen a piston measurement on the piston height yet, but the shorter piston they used in the 08-13? 800's had a bad failure rate due to the shorter piston height causing excess force on the skirt at the lower part of the bore. If I remember right, they did move the pin lower to give more room on the ring and dome area. I've also always wondered how the single rings on both engines will stand up over time under the added stress of boost.

Would love to see the internal measurements of the new Poo 850 on the piston to crank clearance and how much support is there at the lower end of the stroke.

 

[Modman]

Not on the vid I seen on hardcore sledder.

It was a stock engine, and it flashed 181 on the first pull, the other pulls were 174, 175.
Peak torque was impressively high on the curve at 7925rpm, and peak TQ stayed there on the other pulls.

Fair enough but you always throw out the first run. Always makes more cold, operator margin of error is more so they are rarely consistent. it dropped once it got some heat into it. Like I said - its not perfect so take his methodology with a grain of salt. He typically does 3 runs, so you take the average (but I would throw out any outliers like a 181), and then he usually does a long pull (like 1+ min wide open) at the end to see how much it fades off as the heat builds.

 

[snoflake]

Wholly F$%K you Polaris guys sure got a lot of mileage out of this thread. Nobody has even seen a boost on the hill for more an hr and you guys are going on for 5 pages about how much HP they have. F%$K the Dyno, get it on the snow with more than 500km on them and see how they are doing. Its pretty evident they aren't out there destroying everyone like everyone thought they should. You know cause they are soooo much lighter and have 30 more HP than the doo. Maybe lay off the high 5s until one of these bad boys can make to the alpine AND back to the truck.

 

[NoBrakes!]

Wholly F$%K you Polaris guys sure got a lot of mileage out of this thread. Nobody has even seen a boost on the hill for more an hr and you guys are going on for 5 pages about how much HP they have. F%$K the Dyno, get it on the snow with more than 500km on them and see how they are doing. Its pretty evident they aren't out there destroying everyone like everyone thought they should. You know cause they are soooo much lighter and have 30 more HP than the doo. Maybe lay off the high 5s until one of these bad boys can make to the alpine AND back to the truck.

^^^ Did you hear Jivin' Ivans 2022 N/A lasted 32 minutes?

 

[snoflake]

^^^ Did you hear Jivin' Ivans 2022 N/A lasted 32 minutes?

Yup. Him and another fella were towed out same day. Both fuel pump/tank related. He also said they aren’t sure if or when they can get parts to fix them.

 

[Rhodesie]

Wholly F$%K you Polaris guys sure got a lot of mileage out of this thread. Nobody has even seen a boost on the hill for more an hr and you guys are going on for 5 pages about how much HP they have. F%$K the Dyno, get it on the snow with more than 500km on them and see how they are doing. Its pretty evident they aren't out there destroying everyone like everyone thought they should. You know cause they are soooo much lighter and have 30 more HP than the doo. Maybe lay off the high 5s until one of these bad boys can make to the alpine AND back to the truck.

you ok bud?

 

[niner]

Wholly F$%K you Polaris guys sure got a lot of mileage out of this thread. Nobody has even seen a boost on the hill for more an hr and you guys are going on for 5 pages about how much HP they have. F%$K the Dyno, get it on the snow with more than 500km on them and see how they are doing. Its pretty evident they aren't out there destroying everyone like everyone thought they should. You know cause they are soooo much lighter and have 30 more HP than the doo. Maybe lay off the high 5s until one of these bad boys can make to the alpine AND back to the truck.

The polaris guys aren’t too worried about beating the turbo doo. They just hope the boost is faster than the 13 pro’s that they turbo’d 10 years ago…

 

[snoflake]

you ok bud?

Ya, just funnin.

 

[turboetech]

You guys had the whole mountain to test but post at tracked out test?or where the results the same pulling fresh lines?

 

[niner]

You guys had the whole mountain to test but post at tracked out test?or where the results the same pulling fresh lines?

Fresh lines bottom to top. The poo had a slightly steeper line at the end but overall a pretty even hill for comparison. There was some 165 turbo doos that couldn’t pull it in our tracks.

 

[turboetech]

Fresh lines bottom to top. The poo had a slightly steeper line at the end but overall a pretty even hill for comparison.

My view you both crossed 4 tracks at different times of the pull… two differnt dynos used here…

 

[FernieHawk]

The polaris guys aren’t too worried about beating the turbo doo. They just hope the boost is faster than the 13 pro’s that they turbo’d 10 years ago…

It's not really a fair comparison...the Polaris has a lightened snow flap with holes and the Ski-Doo doesn't. I would like to see a race with he same kind of snow flap.

 

[turboetech]

It's not really a fair comparison...the Polaris has a lightened snow flap with holes and the Ski-Doo doesn't. I would like to see a race with he same kind of snow flap.

Must be a cat guy lol

 

[turboetech]

I actually hope the Polaris out performs the doo this year makes the sport continue to grow and get better for all

 

[niner]

My view you both crossed 4 tracks at different times of the pull… two differnt dynos used here…

Yes 4 tracks crossed at the bottom, but they were at a 76* angle to our line which clearly gives the advantage to the cat.

 

[snochuk]

Wholly F$%K you Polaris guys sure got a lot of mileage out of this thread. Nobody has even seen a boost on the hill for more an hr and you guys are going on for 5 pages about how much HP they have. F%$K the Dyno, get it on the snow with more than 500km on them and see how they are doing. Its pretty evident they aren't out there destroying everyone like everyone thought they should. You know cause they are soooo much lighter and have 30 more HP than the doo. Maybe lay off the high 5s until one of these bad boys can make to the alpine AND back to the truck.

You are your own answer....
This thread has lasted so long because of all the dooflake responses to cut up the Poo.
This behavior only happens from the doo side of the fence, no other color than yellow drives the attack as fiercely.
Poo is definitely having problems delivering in the broken supply market of that there is no doubt.
Hopefully for the sake of constructive banter Poo can deliver sooner than later.
Never know, maybe the doo will be the better sled, but my money is on the Poo - chassis and driveline, it just needs to not be a year one sled with issue.
Have had the first year G4 - what flop.
Cats Alpha was a far better less issue sled, they just didn't fix all of it year two, dam clutch.
Hopefully sooner than later I get to work a first year Poo over with more success.