Muskoka Freerider

Got boost want snow · Feb 29, 2024

I have to agree the clutch bolt should never break neither should the porcelain break on the plugs but 150km on a $200-250 belt really isn’t performance either. We are paying upwards of $25,000 for a sled and some accept these issues, my dealer would hate me as they would have that unit there till it was repaired and repaired properly.

deaner · Mar 1, 2024

Does it work to just run a p85? Not cool that a guy has to buy a different clutch to run on your brand new sled, but the things obviously work well or guys wouldn't be buying them. If that's the fix....that's what I would do

Lund · Mar 1, 2024

NoBrakes! said:
anyone ever blue check their taper?

I believe the problem stems in the spider, the P22 has a "splined" spider instead of a threaded one. This allows for easy outer Sheave removal. No need to unthread the spider. It also incorporates a bearing on the shaft, this allows to run a tighter belt deflection for improved clutch response.
I think the spline design allows for too much movement in the outer sheave and causes the bolt to tighten to the point of breaking.
I'm not sure but I believe Poo has or may have a spider update.

Sessionsdoo · Mar 1, 2024

rknight111 · Mar 1, 2024

Sessionsdoo said:

Scrolled through a bit, the sound of those Popo's is to much to listen to, sounds like by brother in laws old blood hound whining. Noticed a belt gone in 3 rides, with that incredible pow I can understand that, also another popo loosing its power and having to sit out while all your buds get a deep day in, that would suck, especially after spending 20K + on a sled.,

gedakbx · Mar 2, 2024

2 poos and 2 doos with in our group yesterday they all made it back to the truck that’s hard for some of you to fathom I known

MK4TDI · Mar 2, 2024

gedakbx said:
2 poos and 2 doos with in our group yesterday they all made it back to the truck that’s hard for some of you to fathom I known

Did you forget to mention the poos were at the end of the toe strap ?

gedakbx · Mar 2, 2024

Nope no tow ropes 2 days straight now.

lilduke · Mar 2, 2024

gedakbx said:
Nope no tow ropes 2 days straight now.

Thats got to be some kind of record. Haha

greenthumb · Mar 3, 2024

Modman · Mar 4, 2024

Lund said:
I believe the problem stems in the spider, the P22 has a "splined" spider instead of a threaded one. This allows for easy outer Sheave removal. No need to unthread the spider. It also incorporates a bearing on the shaft, this allows to run a tighter belt deflection for improved clutch response.
I think the spline design allows for too much movement in the outer sheave and causes the bolt to tighten to the point of breaking.
I'm not sure but I believe Poo has or may have a spider update.

I agree the issue is the outer sheave but I don't believe its tightening the bolt to excess, as that would indicate the clutch spinning on the crank, which can be indexed and verified. The taper on the inner sheave holds on for boosted sleds with far more power and way more torque, it would have to be way out for the taper to cause slippage IMO (still, anything is a possibility) and this is pretty easy to check.

The P22 outer sheave and spider are on the spline, so that whole outer clutch half is pounding on that bolt every time the throttle is hammered or dropped, as its the only thing holding the 7lbs of outer clutch on. Thousands of cycles and hundreds of pounds of force, every ride. Eventually the bolt stresses enough and breaks from lateral force, not axial. I like the modular "idea" of the clutch, much more user friendly to quickly tune. I'm curious if a guy decreased the deflection by using thinner washers, if that would make the belt more of a cushion on hard closings, however would likely cause some belts to squeal and would likely just postpone the bolt breaking.

Caper11 · Mar 4, 2024

Modman said:
I agree the issue is the outer sheave but I don't believe its tightening the bolt to excess, as that would indicate the clutch spinning on the crank, which can be indexed and verified. The taper on the inner sheave holds on for boosted sleds with far more power and way more torque, it would have to be way out for the taper to cause slippage IMO (still, anything is a possibility) and this is pretty easy to check.

The P22 outer sheave and spider are on the spline, so that whole outer clutch half is pounding on that bolt every time the throttle is hammered or dropped, as its the only thing holding the 7lbs of outer clutch on. Thousands of cycles and hundreds of pounds of force, every ride. Eventually the bolt stresses enough and breaks from lateral force, not axial. I like the modular "idea" of the clutch, much more user friendly to quickly tune. I'm curious if a guy decreased the deflection by using thinner washers, if that would make the belt more of a cushion on hard closings, however would likely cause some belts to squeal and would likely just postpone the bolt breaking.

I don’t know about it not being axial stress, axial is inline with the crank stub. Heat (thermal growth) along with the clutch opening and closing would be my guess at the bolt failure.
The “ lateral force” you mentioned, the clutch would have to be moving on the stub. Once slippage occurs, the bolt will be under torqued after the movement on the taper.

Doo uses a cushion to dampen the force of the clutch opening and closing, and a special washer under the clutch bolt head, along with a required retorque procedure after the engine has been run.

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lilduke · Mar 4, 2024

Maybe they should just put the p85 back on.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

Rhodesie · Mar 4, 2024

lilduke said:
Maybe they should just put the p85 back on.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

a more robust version totally. not sure if they can make that in mexico though.

maxwell · Mar 4, 2024

lilduke said:
Maybe they should just put the p85 back on.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

It will be interesting to see what they do, I can’t picture any manufacturer going backwards. Especially after advertising the benefits and having the customer pay for those features. They can’t simply say “well that didn’t work” and go back to the p85. They have no choice but to fix the p22. Or pretend like there isn’t a problem but it’s far past that point. It’s deeper than just a bolt so someone’s been busy at Polaris sorting this out, hopefully

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lilduke · Mar 4, 2024

maxwell said:
It will be interesting to see what they do, I can’t picture any manufacturer going backwards. Especially after advertising the benefits and having the customer pay for those features. They can’t simply say “well that didn’t work” and go back to the p85. They have no choice but to fix the p22. Or pretend like there isn’t a problem but it’s far past that point. It’s deeper than just a bolt so someone’s been busy at Polaris sorting this out, hopefully

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Having a clutch that doesnt fall off is going backwards?

Whats so great about this p22 that is worth trying to fix?

Caper11 · Mar 4, 2024

maxwell said:
It will be interesting to see what they do, I can’t picture any manufacturer going backwards. Especially after advertising the benefits and having the customer pay for those features. They can’t simply say “well that didn’t work” and go back to the p85. They have no choice but to fix the p22. Or pretend like there isn’t a problem but it’s far past that point. It’s deeper than just a bolt so someone’s been busy at Polaris sorting this out, hopefully

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It is Polaris. Rail caps worked great until an engineer thought of removing them.

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pfi572 · Mar 4, 2024

Caper11 said:
It is Polaris. Rail caps worked great until an engineer thought of removing them.

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They all have faults in that department.

Engineering!!
Still have trouble clutching/ gearing machines to not blow belts .

niner · Mar 5, 2024

Trend setter…

thump · Mar 5, 2024

gedakbx said:
Fixed my 08 buy shimming the motor and jackshaft, no more issues after that.

I had to do the same to my 08 & 09 146 Summit. Im sure this was the guy at the factory lining up the clutches! Maybe he's back working! Haha!

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