FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

[fargineyesore]

it is pretty tough to make the small print work lately as you make no attempt for anyone to read it. and you have no signature of anyone reading it. a good lawyer will make you look like you had your pants down. fine print means squat. ask any oilfield company out there you must sign anything you must read, and they keep a copy. why don't the ticket sellers take everyones name and trip info when they sell there trail pass, makes search and rescue a little easier, maybe contact info also, your system seems very micky mouse, no regards to safety just give me the money. it could be better.

I don't think the trail pass issuers should be responsible for anyone's safety, nor be liable for others. For crying out loud, us sledders have to take responsibility for OUR OWN ACTIONS. In my mind, the trail pass is to pay for grooming and if there is a cabin up there, help sustain that as well, as well as help the local club to run. I also work in the oil patch and agree with you about everything being signed, but the Oil patch has gone over the top with this crap. You can't even fart without having to fill out an incident report and be grilled by some safety gestapo type. Leave the clubs and trail pass issuers out of this, they aren't responsible for bad decisions or unfortunate incidents out there. We need to keep the bottom feeder injury lawyers out of this if possible.

 

[LID]

If you made it to the bottom of the Jim Prentice article in the Herald today, there is a perfect example of politicians getting their sound bite in while knowing NOTHING about how things work in the mountains.

"NDP house leader Rachel Notley, however, said she's not a big fan of voluntary compliance and believes the government should consider introducing regulations for backcountry snowmobiling.

She says fines and other deterrents could make Albertans think twice before sledding in unmarked areas."

IDIOTS! It's just like politicians (and others) commenting on skiing "out of bounds." They couldn't find out of bounds if it took a dump on their lap.

 

[Modman]

The garbage from the ...I'm sorry I have to use the word..."Stupid" is getting rampant. Check out some of the comments on the following forum out of Kelowna. One person even went as far as posting, "they got what they deserved". I contacted the Moderator in regard to that comment and she didn't think it was inappropriate. Free to sign up and post your own remarks.
Castanet • Massive avalanche near Revelstoke today - View topic

After a well pointed email from a fellow sledder, I have edited this post since my earlier morning rant was a little judging of other people's lifestyle. I guess my blood started boiling after seeing someone who died doing what they loved be labelled as "a burden to society" when there are so many other things truly burdening our society.......I left the part with my humbled feelings.
....
It hit home for me a little while ago when a family friend was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he was given 6-8 weeks to live. So much happened for him in that short time. It made me think that its not enough time to do all the things you regret not doing - so I will do what I love as often as I can. People die everyday for 1000's of reasons. I won't live in a box under my basement stairs afraid of what could happen to me in life.

Face everyday head on, with the throttle wide open.

In the immortal words of Trooper: "We're here for a good time, not a long time."

Don't let the negative Nancy's of the world take the joy out of your life and the sport that we all love.

 

[Buster]

Amen brother!!!

 

[Bogger]

Was there ANY response to the letter written by Susie Rainsberry??? I know that a lot of different media outlets got a copy of it. Did anyone hear back from them????

I heard back from the Edmonton Journal wanting susies contact info.....

Then they actually PRINTED it in todays paper...... Good on the jornal and thank you susie

 

[pano-dude]

That sounds like a slippery slope....... Likely just as many locals at the event as anyone likely, or were you in the parking lot counting BC vs AB licence plates? By the same standard then - anyone recieving free universal health care in BC should send a cheque to the federal gov't. Sound fair?

Not even close to the same arguement.

I am guessing Health care supplied to out of Province people by BC hospitals is charged back to the home province.

I was not there so I do not know the ratio, but really on any given day how many red and white plates vs white and blue in the parking lots? Local taxes fund the SAR teams. How many locals were rescued?

My main point is that anyone who was helped out should anty up and SAY THANKS to the SAR publicly. This shows sledders are willing to take responsibility for their actions.

The local infrastructure cannot deal with issues like this financially, in Invermere the town had to "fund raise"to buy a rescue boat and then again to purchase a new truck after the old one was damaged in an accident.

So many users on here brag about the money they spend on their toys, I would think $500 for being rescued is not unreasonable.

I keep reading the comments that are comparing other sports or accidents to this and they are way off. The fact is all those people who were watching were in a pretty obvious terrain trap. There has been so much talk on here about avy conditions and to take a avy course but yet 50 sleds park in the runout zone???

The sledding community is the joke of all b/c users and for good reason with video clips of the mysterious OZONE cracking a beer during the event last year floating around.

No amount of work can be done by the many good sledders will ever change joe publics attitude towards sledders.

 

[sledslut]

Bogger, i cant find it? where is it

 

[jaredszakacs]

i had this emailed me from ken at the creston snowmobile club maybe the media should quote this article.

Morning.
It appears this was passed on by Dan Davidoff to other clubs and then to us.
Well written............
K.

It's time to honor the heros.
Written by Susie Rainsberry
March 15, 2010

It's been several days now since the tragic avalanche at Turbo Hill. The
latest reports are that two are deceased and three are still
hospitalized. The media is also reporting that there were 200
snowmobilers at Turbo at the time of the slide. The avalanche is
reported

to have been up to 150 meters wide and 10 meters deep. That, my friends,
is a BIG avalanche!

I'd like to put some perspective on this - a snowmobiler's perspective.
Apparently no one in the media is a snowmobiler or is concerned about
taking the time to gather the facts - not just the bad, but the good as
well. And there is good to be heard in this story. If you ask a
snowmobiler - they'd be able to tell you what that is. But either the
media isn't asking, or has heard it and doesn't feel that the facts are
newsworthy.
However, I feel these facts are the MOST newsworthy topic of this entire
tragedy.

Saturday afternoon, following the close of the events for the annual Big
Iron Shootout, a large group of snowmobilers headed to Turbo Bowl to
make a run at the hill. As the riders lined up at the bottom of the hill, the
mass of spectators parked their sleds and prepared to enjoy the show. As
one of the sleds turned out towards the top, the hillside gave way.
Thundering down the mountain it came - taking sleds and riders with it.
This powerful act of nature happens in a split second. There is no time
to react.

The time to react is as soon as it stops. And react - with speed and
knowledge - in the midst of chaos - is what those sledders did. There
were no typical first responders to this catastrophe in the immediate
moments following the avalanche. Only snowmobilers. Those same
snowmobilers that the media is painting with a broad stroke as crazy,
ignorant, thrill-seekers. As a back country snowmobiler myself, I can tell you that ignorant is
not a word that I would use to describe those survivors. I would call them
heroes! And justly so. In the midst of what may have been the most
terrifying minutes of their lives, they turned their avalanche beacons
tosearch, they got out their probes and their shovels and they started
rescue protocols IMMEDIATELY - likely while in a state of shock. They
dug out those that were buried, they triaged the injured, they administered
first aid, they built fires to keep them warm until the helicopters
arrived. These people were heroic!! Without their quick and educated
responses, many more people would have died.

I am angered that the media is so eager to report this story that they
are being so disgraceful to the victims and survivors. These people need
support and compassion. They do not need to be stereotyped and degraded
in the media or by anyone else. Shame on you!! Didn't your mother teach
you better manners than that?>> I'm not done though - there is way more information about snowmobilers
in respect to the Big Iron Shootout and Revelstoke that the media hasn't
covered yet. While they gleefully report that this is an unsanctioned
(I'll get to that in a moment) event drew 200 sledders (despite the
grave warnings from the avalanche center), what they aren't telling you is
that there are likely double that number of snowmobilers who DIDN'T attend
this year's event - because of the conditions. Snowmobilers who DID heed
the warnings.

As I was reading the snowmobiling forums and Facebook on Saturday
evening, the same story continued to repeat itself - people concerned
about friends who generally attend the BIS, those friends checking in
and

saying they didn't go this year, or they were in the area but avoided
Turbo Bowl because of the warnings and the conditions they were already
aware of. You see, back country snowmobilers are often in the back
country two or more days a week and already have first hand insight to
the conditions.

Regarding the word being used in almost every story - unsanctioned. It
is true that there is no sanctioning organization for this event. Not the
town of Revelstoke nor the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club. However, just
because it's not sanctioned does not mean that it is illegal.

Snowmobilers often gather in large groups to ride with friends who are
generally dispersed all over Canada and the United States. I personally
rode with a group of 30 riders at an "unsanctioned" event in Wyoming.
Oops! I also rode at another "unsanctioned" event, ummm, better make
that two, here in Oregon. Rest assured, I am not a criminal nor are any of
the snowmobilers that I know.

The internet keeps the snowmobiling community connected. There are
1,000s of unsanctioned events that simply start by someone saying, "hey - who
wants to ride this weekend?" Next thing ya know, word spreads about how
much fun everyone had and it snowballs from there (pun intended). They
grow into these annual events."same date next year?"

So, here's what happens next - the date is set. Motel rooms are
reserved.

Trucks and sleds are fueled. Vacation time is requested. Then
individuals, families and social groups all head into a remote mountain
town. They buy. They buy. They buy a lot!! They spend money - because
they can. It is with great sadness that I have to dispel the myth that mountain
snowmobilers are a bunch of rednecks. All you really need to do is add
up the costs to outfit an individual - much less an entire family - with a
sled and the proper safety gear. Since this article is really targeted
at those individuals who are not mountain sledders, I will point out that
everything - got that?.EVERYTHING, on your person and on your sled is
part and parcel of your survival gear. From your gloves, to your coat,
to the sunglasses in your backpack. Trying to save a dime in buying a coat
is really not advised, when that coat may be the only thing protecting
you from the elements if you have to stay overnight. With all that said,
here's a run down of estimated costs of the primary accessories needed
to sled in the back country.

Sled $6,000-$14,000 USD
Clothes (including base, mid and outer layers - top & bottom)
$800-$1,200 USD
Boots/gloves/helmet $245-$800 USD
Backpack (non-avy) $60-$120 USD
Backpack (avy) $1,000-$1,200 USD
Body armor (tek vest, knee pads, etc) $60-$300 USD
Beacon, probe, shovel $250-$400 USD

This doesn't include a lot of items, such as matches, radios, compass,
fire starter, flashlight, and the list goes on, and the costs add up. It
would be GREATLY appreciated if the media would STOP perpetuating the
myths that sledders are ignorant, beer-swilling, couch-potatoes. Because
it's simply not true.

The fact is that mountain sledders do not fit a stereotypical mold. They
come from all areas of the business world.from CEOs to millworkers. They
have families and they are single. They are old and they are young. They
are world-class athletes and they are physically handicapped. They
survive corporate down-sizing, cancer, divorces, etc..just like everyone
else.

The thing that binds us together is our great love for the back country
in the winter. We are modern day adventurers. We want to get out there -
in the mountains. We want to explore and play and wonder at the beauty.
We love the snow! When it covers the trees, when it flies up in our
faces, when it gives us a playground of vast proportions. That is when
we are in heaven. That is when our souls glow.

We are not anything that the media will have tried to make us out to be
in the last couple of days. We are so much more. It's truly a pity that
the media isn't interested in shining any light on the truth.

The truth is - the Turbo Bowl avy survivors are HEROS. We in the
snowmobiling communities - far and wide - are praying for the full
recovery of those injured, in body and in spirit. And finally, with
greatcompassion and sympathy we extend our heartfelt condolences to the
families of those who perished.

I wrote this and I am Susie Rainsberry, Oregon resident, back-country
snowmobiler. I provide free and complete liberty for others to share and
disperse this message. The time has come to stop the slandering of good
individuals just because they ride snowmobiles.

 

[Summitric]

Bogger, i cant find it? where is it

Avalanche survivors should be considered heroes

HERE, TRY THIS........

 

[BC Sno-Ghost]

After a well pointed email from a fellow sledder, I have edited this post since my earlier morning rant was a little judging of other people's lifestyle. I guess my blood started boiling after seeing someone who died doing what they loved be labelled as "a burden to society" when there are so many other things truly burdening our society.......I left the part with my humbled feelings.
....
It hit home for me a little while ago when a family friend was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he was given 6-8 weeks to live. So much happened for him in that short time. It made me think that its not enough time to do all the things you regret not doing - so I will do what I love as often as I can. People die everyday for 1000's of reasons. I won't live in a box under my basement stairs afraid of what could happen to me in life.

Face everyday head on, with the throttle wide open.

In the immortal words of Trooper: "We're here for a good time, not a long time."

Don't let the negative Nancy's of the world take the joy out of your life and the sport that we all love.

Well Said Modman!

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Well, I read the whole 14 pages to get here. Lots of interesting ways of looking at the tragedy. I admit, I like Susies letter and I am glad there is some play on the positive side so that all sledders are not portraited in a negative light. My sympathy to those who were killed or injured.

That said, I am firmly in the camp that feels the people on that hill, that day, highmarking it, or sitting at the bottom got what they deserved. That was just plain dumb. There was a huge amount of new snow on a questionable base, there was a severe avy danger warning, most admit to having seen other slides in the area. What the heck were you doing on that hill?

I would love to hear the rational for the people that were there participating in that.

I ride pretty much exclusively in major avy terrain. I KNOW when to stay off the hill. This group had a responsibility to know the same. These actions rightfully reflect badly on snowmobillers everywhere. I wish people would wise up.

 

[SHIFTmx]

the people on that hill, that day, highmarking it, or sitting at the bottom got what they deserved. .

Ya i will agree that they shouldnt have been on that hill but Nobody deserved to die.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Ya i will agree that they shouldnt have been on that hill but Nobody deserved to die.

Come on now. I know compassion sometimes takes over but...you rolls your dice, you moves your mice. If you make a REALLY bad decision, like was done that day, I stand by the fact that you get what you deserve. Harsh maybe, but such is life, and death.

If you stand at the edge of the road, see the bus coming, and step out in front of it anyway, did you get what you deserved for that decision? I think so.

 

[sledhead_2002]

Come on now. I know compassion sometimes takes over but...you rolls your dice, you moves your mice. If you make a REALLY bad decision, like was done that day, I stand by the fact that you get what you deserve. Harsh maybe, but such is life, and death.

If you stand at the edge of the road, see the bus coming, and step out in front of it anyway, did you get what you deserved for that decision? I think so.

Your point is made and understood, but the words used to express your thoughts are crap.

 

[Riverjet]

Some thoughts from a BC Fishing Forum before and after I posted the great letter from Susie Rainsberry.

Avalanche struck Boulder Mountain - Fly Fishing in BC

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Your point is made and understood, but the words used to express your thoughts are crap.

Gee, I am really sorry you don't approve....NOT!

 

[sledhead2010]

Well, I read the whole 14 pages to get here. Lots of interesting ways of looking at the tragedy. I admit, I like Susies letter and I am glad there is some play on the positive side so that all sledders are not portraited in a negative light. My sympathy to those who were killed or injured.

That said, I am firmly in the camp that feels the people on that hill, that day, highmarking it, or sitting at the bottom got what they deserved. That was just plain dumb. There was a huge amount of new snow on a questionable base, there was a severe avy danger warning, most admit to having seen other slides in the area. What the heck were you doing on that hill?

I would love to hear the rational for the people that were there participating in that.

I ride pretty much exclusively in major avy terrain. I KNOW when to stay off the hill. This group had a responsibility to know the same. These actions rightfully reflect badly on snowmobillers everywhere. I wish people would wise up.

I may be a newbie to this sport, but comments like above can easily become this.


" ‘Sheer stupidity’

Published: March 15, 2010 6:21 AM
Updated: March 15, 2010 2:30 PM
REVELSTOKE, B.C. — What many feared would be one of the worst death tolls ever in the B.C. backcountry appears to be an almost miraculous story of survival.

But with the relief at a major catastrophe averted came anger from some in the snowmobiling community who say the two killed — and the real potential there could have been dozens more — should never have happened.

“That was sheer stupidity,” said Brandyn Mears, who works at Powder Petes snowmobile rental shop in Revelstoke.

He was referring to witnesses who reported watching the avalanche trigger when a few people attending the annual Big Iron Shoot-Out began high-marking, racing their snowmobiles up the side of the mountain to see who can leave the highest mark and get down safely.

Dozens of sledders stopped to watch from what they thought was a safe distance. It wasn’t.

A towering wall of snow with the force of concrete came tumbling down the mountainside near where a group of 200 was gathered, sweeping spectators and their snowmobiles with it."

People in the sledding industry making comment slike this are only adding blood to the water and the media are like sharks drawn to it and exploiting it. I heard the sheer stupidity thing being used on local radio stations.

 

[buck50]

Not even close to the same arguement.

I am guessing Health care supplied to out of Province people by BC hospitals is charged back to the home province.

I was not there so I do not know the ratio, but really on any given day how many red and white plates vs white and blue in the parking lots? Local taxes fund the SAR teams. How many locals were rescued?

My main point is that anyone who was helped out should anty up and SAY THANKS to the SAR publicly. This shows sledders are willing to take responsibility for their actions.

The local infrastructure cannot deal with issues like this financially, in Invermere the town had to "fund raise"to buy a rescue boat and then again to purchase a new truck after the old one was damaged in an accident.

So many users on here brag about the money they spend on their toys, I would think $500 for being rescued is not unreasonable.

I keep reading the comments that are comparing other sports or accidents to this and they are way off. The fact is all those people who were watching were in a pretty obvious terrain trap. There has been so much talk on here about avy conditions and to take a avy course but yet 50 sleds park in the runout zone???

The sledding community is the joke of all b/c users and for good reason with video clips of the mysterious OZONE cracking a beer during the event last year floating around.

No amount of work can be done by the many good sledders will ever change joe publics attitude towards sledders.

actually, most, if not all, the people were already found before SAR got there. if they hadn't been, the fatalities would have been much higher. not saying that SAR didn't do a great job, but so did the people on site. also, the whole avy warnings is bothering me. has anyone here ever ridden in BC and not had the warnings be at least consireable or high even. i've never been to golden or revy with anything less than considerable, but usually it's high. and i've ridden most of the areas in all different conditions and times of year. it just seems to me that the avy risk is ALWAYS elevated, not just on this particular weekend, but pretty all of them

 

[234blair]

Well, I read the whole 14 pages to get here. Lots of interesting ways of looking at the tragedy. I admit, I like Susies letter and I am glad there is some play on the positive side so that all sledders are not portraited in a negative light. My sympathy to those who were killed or injured.

That said, I am firmly in the camp that feels the people on that hill, that day, highmarking it, or sitting at the bottom got what they deserved. That was just plain dumb. There was a huge amount of new snow on a questionable base, there was a severe avy danger warning, most admit to having seen other slides in the area. What the heck were you doing on that hill?

I would love to hear the rational for the people that were there participating in that.

I ride pretty much exclusively in major avy terrain. I KNOW when to stay off the hill. This group had a responsibility to know the same. These actions rightfully reflect badly on snowmobillers everywhere. I wish people would wise up.

Hind sight is 20/20. It is easy for you to say that was a dumb place to be as you sit in front of your computer. Using your logic: If Person knows there is a danger and voluntary places themselves in harms way you are "just plain dumb". Do you say the same thing when a soldier comes back in a body bag from the war? Do you say the same thing when there is a fatality accident on the highway due to poor road conditions? Do you say the same thing when a respected and licensed mountain guide with 20+ years of experience dies in an avalanche in his own guiding territory? Do you say the same thing when a group of high school students die in an avalanche on a guided school trip? The answer is: No, you do not make a statement like that because that would be "just plain dumb".

 

[Mikew5j]

actually, most, if not all, the people were already found before SAR got there. if they hadn't been, the fatalities would have been much higher. not saying that SAR didn't do a great job, but so did the people on site. also, the whole avy warnings is bothering me. has anyone here ever ridden in BC and not had the warnings be at least consireable or high even. i've never been to golden or revy with anything less than considerable, but usually it's high. and i've ridden most of the areas in all different conditions and times of year. it just seems to me that the avy risk is ALWAYS elevated, not just on this particular weekend, but pretty all of them

You may be correct, however what happened after the avalanche? 30 injured. Some critically. Buried and smashed up sleds every where. In the middle of nowhere. The death count could easily been higher without the S&R evacuation. It would be very short sighted not be thankful or trivialize what S&R contributed.