Would sledders ride with this?

[coldsmoke]

I looking to validate a new product/idea for sledding in avalanche terrain. Would your as rider wear a mouthguard (heat mouldable), if it POTENTIALLY offered you the ability to breathe should you be buried in avalanche?

Obviously it would also provide some protection for your teeth in the event of a crash but what I'm after is whether you'd personally ride with a mouth guard in all day? It comes out easy enough for talking, swearing, smoking, etc...

Thanks for any feedback/insight both for or against. I've been Red-Greening it in the man cave and come up with a pretty cool idea (to me anyway). Can't let too much out just yet.

 

[fnDan]

I wonder about the sanitary aspect. Athletes that wear mouthguards usually rinse them often and are only wearing them a short period of time compared to sledding for 6 hours.
Instructions to pop the guard in just before you highmark would probably make sense. How restrictive would it be? Where does the air come from when you're buried? Products like the avalung don't seem like they would work because there is no air around you once you're buried.
Sometimes I have enough trouble catching my breath with just a helmet on.

 

[Clode]

I wouldn't wear one, not interested in having a foreign object in my mouth...

 

[coldsmoke]

Thanks for the thoughts. There's quite a bit of oxygen available in the snow when buried. The problem is an ice mask forms in front of your face from condensation, leaving CO2 nowhere to go, but pool in front of your face. Death from asphyxiation. Basically what I've done is created an avalung built into a helmet. O2 is breathed from snow (filtered so snow doesn't clog the intake) and as your breathe, CO2 is pushed through a valve and exits down an "exhaust" tube behind you. Similar to an avalung, but built right into the helmet. My big issue/dilemma is attaching the unit to one's mouth. In it's current configuration, I used a mouthguard that attaches to tubing that the rider would place in their mouth. Having used an avalung and involved in slides (while skiing), there is little to no time to put the unit in your mouth - it was either, I'm putting this in my mouth now and going for a ride, or screw the avalung and I'm going to fight getting out of this thing. Also, with a full face helmet, it doesn't currently play well together. I thought about just attaching the tubing to the breathe box unit, but I'm not convinced it's air tight enough to keep snow out in an avalanche.

 

[coldsmoke]

It would be similar to the mouthguard you'd wear playing hockey. Same deal, but with a hose coming off the front - easily detachable.

 

[Bnorth]

I've played a lot of sports that require a mouthguard and it's not a big deal to have one in. I would encourage you to check out the ones built by the dentists though as they fit far better and are more comfortable.

 

[summit1974]

i would not wear one!

 

[coldsmoke]

One more question, if you say "definitely not or similar" - can you tell me why? I don't want a mouth guard in while riding or .....??? Just trying to tweak the design. I personally like the idea of having a breathing device built into my helmet. If I gonna wear a helmet, why not have one that may offer the ability to breathe should I get buried.

I also ride with a balloon pack, but it doesn't guarantee success 100% of the time. A guy died near Revy last season, as he got hung in the trees and was buried using a balloon pack. There was a lot of questions around the pack, such as if he wasn't wearing one would he have been flushed through the trees? We'll never really know....It really comes back to terrain decisions.

 

[CJR]

So there are obviously plans for some sort of tube(s) coming from this mouth guard?

 

[coldsmoke]

Yep, in it's current configuration. There's a small tube that attaches to the front of the mouthguard (upper teeth) that runs towards the chin guard and then hides behind the helmet padding. I'm also working of another version that relies on the cold weather face guard. Basically a one way valve to let O2 in and another one way valve to release CO2 out - along with the "guts" of the air exchanger hidden behind the padding. The one I have is from an old 'foo helmet and it's not super tight on the chin. Having worked in the avalanche industry and been witness to burials, I'm not convinced that system is air tight enough to keep snow from entering the system and plugging up your nose/mouth when buried.

Trying to find a way to make the mouth/snorkel/mask system better for the user.........

 

[Highfly]

Interesting idea.... You mention small tube? Can you personally put this device in your mouth and sprint around your yard until exhausted and still fully exhale with no restriction. Your heart rate in an AVY will be through the roof, adrenaline pumping like crazy. I'm thinking your tube is going to need to be the size of a swimming snorkel.

 

[Korey]

I think this is a great idea and would probably use it. anything to even the odds a little more if I where ever to be buried. I am however not a fan of the mouth guard idea, if I where you I'd be thinking along the lines if a fighter pilot type mask that can be mounted under a helmet with a hard rubber shell to prevent it from collapsing and possibly a kit of some kind that allows you to mold you own seal for your face I do believe there are ways to do that already just need a little research. You can have that idea for free haha anyway that's my 2 cents glade to see someone trying to make our sport that much better and safer thanks.

Just a quick edit also came to mind if a mask could be used you could have an inhalation and exhaust ports similar to a 3m half mask respirator with a divided tube. Would also need a way to keep the moisture from your breath from freezing up the tube and valves

 

[sledneck_03]

I wonder about the sanitary aspect. Athletes that wear mouthguards usually rinse them often and are only wearing them a short period of time compared to sledding for 6 hours.
Instructions to pop the guard in just before you highmark would probably make sense. How restrictive would it be? Where does the air come from when you're buried? Products like the avalung don't seem like they would work because there is no air around you once you're buried.
Sometimes I have enough trouble catching my breath with just a helmet on.

i wear a mouth guard in my mouth for snoring all night. it gets gross after a while even tho i brush it with tooth paste every day. it needs to be replaced every couple months.

there is a product that i seen that is a mouth guard that blows your breath down to prevent fogging.

 

[fnDan]

i wear a mouth guard in my mouth for snoring all night. it gets gross after a while even tho i brush it with tooth paste every day. it needs to be replaced every couple months.

there is a product that i seen that is a mouth guard that blows your breath down to prevent fogging.

I've never hijacked a thread before but I have to ask... does the mouth guard for snoring work? PM me and we'll keep the thread on track

 

[lilduke]

Maybe a better setup would be, one of those wanna be jet fighter helmets, like doo has, with the exhaust routed behind you? I like the concept for sure. Not sure I want to ride with something in my mouth all day though.

 

[coldsmoke]

I used a 1/2" tube and had no problems breathing through it....more than likely it would be some kind of accordion/esophagus type of tubing. This is all just testing at this point. If I was to manufacture it, I'd be sure to build a few prototypes, pass them around and get feedback on improvements. When you ride it sits on your upper teeth, it's actually not that much different than breathing normally - obviously there's a funky tube thing sticking off the front of your face. The concept would be that when you start to go for a ride, just bite down and keep your mouth closed. That will seal the breathing system and prevent snow from plugging your throat and airway. Still playing with the winter/cold weather box - this would eliminate the mouthguard and the system would be just like it was never there.....A little warm for spring riding though.

What I personally like, may not be what the masses want. I just know I don't want to die buried in a slide, and probably a lot of other people feel the same.

 

[lilduke]

What I personally like, may not be what the masses want. I just know I don't want to die buried in a slide, and probably a lot of other people feel the same.

Amen to that.

 

[OOC ZigZag]

Maybe a better setup would be, one of those wanna be jet fighter helmets, like doo has, with the exhaust routed behind you? I like the concept for sure. Not sure I want to ride with something in my mouth all day though.

think the old doo modular was good for peeps with eyeware but the bvs2 not so much

 

[lilduke]

think the old doo modular was good for peeps with eyeware but the bvs2 not so much

I,ve never tried them. just seen them. I was thinking maybe something like a painter's gas mask/breath box type thing, with the exhaust routed behind you, might be more comfortable than a mouth piece and accomplish the same thing.

 

[scrfce]

I,ve never tried them. just seen them. I was thinking maybe something like a painter's gas mask/breath box type thing, with the exhaust routed behind you, might be more comfortable than a mouth piece and accomplish the same thing.

Then goggles and an open face lid? Youd look like u were from another planet lol. Then you wouldnt fog up like that junk bvs2 modular helmet.
Youd lose the face protection tho which is a biggie. Need a "good" engineer to build a full face moto style with the gas mask dealy built in so you could still sport goggles