Sled Comparison / Information

[duarthe]

Okay everyone, I need some input from you... The company I work for currently has 2 snowmobiles and we are looking to get them replaced early, but the boss wants me to give them reasoning why the current sleds are inadequate. The problem is, the boss has never been in the mountains, so it's like trying to explain to a blind man what color is...

Here's what we currently have: Ski-Doo Expedition Sport (4 stroke 600). They're a 154" track with 1.5" paddles. (I'll wait while you all laugh yourselves out of your seats)

They're a great trail sled. If you're in the prairies in 2 inches of snow. But I'm in Revelstoke.

I know everyone has a preference for Cats or Doos or Polaris or Yamahas. I honestly don't really care what we get, as long as we can get rid of what we currently have. What I'm looking for from you guys is some key phrases or reasoning that I can provide to the boss as to why these current sleds are useless.

Here's some of the things I have so far.

Current sleds lack power (60 hp vs 150+hp)
Current sleds lack sufficient paddle size (only 1.5"). Need a minimum of 2" for Revy area riding?
800 cc should be a minimum size engine in order to get enough top end / track speed etc?
Current sleds are about 100 lbs heavier than an effective mountain sled.
Mountain sleds are more responsive than a touring sled.

If you guys could post your comments - even just a line or two - about why these are the wrong sleds for this area, and what is the right sled for this area, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Staple_STI]

I know everyone likes to think 2-stroke for the mountain sleds, as do I, but in your case since it will be a company sled I would stick with a 4-stroke.

Reason is that no company vehicle every gets the maintenance and servicing like a personal vehicle would. Yamaha sleds or a 4-stroke Cat, maybe not being the lightest, but have the best reliability out there. Someone will forget to add oil in the 2-stroke or it will need a top end way before any issues will occur on the 4-stroker.

IMHO

 

[Bnorth]

What's the use of the sleds?

We are replacing two this year also and going from Tundra II's to Polaris 550 Voyagers which are more than enough for logging road access to proposed blocks.

 

[Kaz Dog]

Very good points!

I know everyone likes to think 2-stroke for the mountain sleds, as do I, but in your case since it will be a company sled I would stick with a 4-stroke.

Reason is that no company vehicle every gets the maintenance and servicing like a personal vehicle would. Yamaha sleds or a 4-stroke Cat, maybe not being the lightest, but have the best reliability out there. Someone will forget to add oil in the 2-stroke or it will need a top end way before any issues will occur on the 4-stroker.

IMHO

 

[Kaz Dog]

What type of work do you require sleds for at your work? Will "mountain trail models" be sufficient? Or are you often required to be in the deep and loose powder where a true "mountain sled" is required? Will you need to pull a trailer/toboggan? Knowing what use the sleds are used for will help with an opinion. As well, what are the weights of the riders who are likely to ride? I weigh a good 230 lbs. and changed from a 144"/120 hp sled to a 151"/150+ hp sled to not get stuck when playing. That said, a buddy is only 170 lbs. and his 151"/120 hp is more than enough to get him anywhere he wants to go. More info on use, please.

 

[maxwell]

More details. I know for my work I want nothing more thana bravo 250. Mountain sleds are not work sleds but obviously your line of work is different being in revy so more details please

 

[neilsleder]

With out more details I am saying the Tundra 600 extreme. Best of both worlds!

 

[Steve D]

I lost an entire day trying to get an old xlt up to a mountain repeater site and still failed. Next day brought my M8 and was on site in 10 minutes.

That sells the company on better machines. Wages, SLA, etc., can add up.

 

[Cat_Girl]

Think of it as like a sales pitch to your boss. You could tell him that a deeper paddle would increase efficiency, as you would spend less time digging yourself out. Newer sleds are equipped with more horse power, be it 2 stroke or 4 stroke, would allow an easier ride for the user, and save time and increase efficiency that way as well. A new sled would come with warranty, which would lower maintenance costs of the current sleds. Plus, the newer sleds will have a better parts availability, meaning any repairs would happen quicker, and thus save time for your company.

 

[duarthe]

So the sleds are mostly to get up and around the sledding areas - Boulder / Frisby primarily. Not just to the cabins. Not smashing powder either. Just.. More than the cabin, less than Turbo Hill. Most of the riders are in the 200-250 lb range. I should add that the majority of them are novice to low intermediate riders. While I don't disagree at all with any of the comments above, my main concern is a lack of power on the current sleds. Last year 2 riders went into Sugar Bowl, had a look around and then turned around to head back to the cabin. But couldn't make it out of the bowl. And we're not talking about a powder day. It was relatively tracked out. Not a super highway. But not powder either. Took 3 attempts to make it out.

Don't get me wrong, these expeditions are great sleds - in their element. If their only purpose was to get from the parking lot to the cabin, I would be totally fine keeping them. In fact I would probably choose them over other models - they're awesome on the bumps. But when you have a sled that won't make it up Alberta Hill on a low powder day, it really defeats the purpose. One could argue that there are always ways around, but it's those situations when one of the riders makes a wrong turn and ends up in a big open bowl and can't climb out. Someone above mentioned a mountain trail model which has me curious - I'll have to look into those...

I look forward to more comments - the ones so far have given me alot to consider. I was definitely leaning towards the go big or go home mentality, but I have alot more to consider now. So, thank you!

 

[sirkdev]

So once again what do you need to get to these areas to do? Sounds like the police to me............

 

[Kaz Dog]

With what little more and non-specific use information you have provided, I will base my further comment on. Although I am not a personal fan of the 4-strokers, for ease of maintenance for the sled/firm, I would go with one of them, but not the one you have. I would support the 120-130 hp Yamaha Mountain Nytro. I have rented one in the past and it surprised me where it got to - everywhere I wanted - but was heavier to maneuver than a comparable two-stroke. I have no experience with a Tundra Extreme, but have heard good things there as well, as it is a go anywhere sled, just not fast. A Bravo is not fast or powerful, but easy to get unstuck and will go almost anywhere as well. I do have a problem recommending a powerful sled (120-160+ hp) to any new or moderate user as they can/seem to get into trouble with the amount of throttle the machine has.

 

[ferniesnow]

So once again what do you need to get to these areas to do? Sounds like the police to me............

Once again, more information is needed as to the type of work or need at the end of the trip. What are you doing in the bottom of the bowls? Are you taking in equipment? Does the equipment fit in a back-pack or on the sled? There will be lots of help with your problem if the peeps can get a better scenario of what is going on.

 

[retiredpop]

In reading both of your posts in this thread I get the impression that you do not carry or tow anything with them. Because the various riders are not overly experienced and have a tough time with anything not real easy I would say you definitely need more power. The track you have on the current sled is adequate but coupled with the low power and lack of skill it may even be a safety concern if the riders get in someplace where they can't get out of. The suggestion of a Nytro sounds like a good replacement. I don't think they have many issues of dependability and a 225 lb rider should certainly be able to handle the weight.

 

[duarthe]

Well, I was trying to be vague on purpose. Very few people are in support of the police and I didn't want this thread to turn into a slanderous bunch of posts about the police and how we do nothing, always pick on the wrong guy, are arrogant, bullies, etc. And the posts would likely turn into "the sleds we have are fine cause that way we can't get to the areas the rest of you are in..."

So, to clear up the questions - Yes, it's for police work. We don't haul or tow anything on these sleds. They are simply for us to have a presence in the mountains (think preventing a Yamaha climbing the Boulder cabin). The majority of (RCMP) members know they are novice riders and rely on you guys to help them out of ****ty situations when they get into them. And you guys have. Some of you have helped get them out of those powder filled bowls, or get unstuck. I like to think that generally speaking, the majority of members go up the mountain, shoot the **** with you guys and then head down. I don't think they are up there making a stink, causing a ruckus?

Anyway, having said that - the purpose of the patrols is primarily to have a presence. Occasionally, we may be required for other reasons (Turbo Avalanche from a few years ago). And that's where the problem is. The sleds we have are incapable of getting to or from Turbo. They have no top end and are incapable of climbing out of the steep hills. I'm not saying we need to go slay powder all over the place... But we're on the other end of the scale. I feel like the sleds we currently have are a liability. You put a novice member on it and they make a wrong turn and suddenly they're spending the night somewhere.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion.

 

[Clode]

A Nytro MTX would work well or even a mountain 600 2-stroke...Pro RMK 600, Summit 600. I have no issues with RCMP riding in the mountains, maybe it will keep a few of the azzhats in check.

 

[schwindt]

Can't wait to see the high speed chases out there, going to be smokey and the bandit epic!

 

[Bnorth]

Yeah I would say a 162 Nytro or a 154 600 etec. Probably the best mix of decent power, reliability, and low maintenance available. I don't think some RCMP presence is a bad thing to control the asshats especially where there are asshat conventions like Revy. However if this sport turns into a nanny state like the rest of our society I will be very disappointed in having to find recreation even further from civilization.

 

[schwindt]

Sorry Had to

Smokey and the Bandit (7/10) Movie CLIP - Daddy, the Top Came Off (1977) HD - YouTube

 

[neilsleder]

The only guys who have issues with the RCMP is the guys doing something wrong! There for come on up I have nothing to worry about!