The Alberta SRD

[-LadyDirt-]

I have read their posts, and nowhere did they directly point any fingers to quadders. Shibby mentioned quads in his posts as one particular example, but nowhere did I get the impression when he was stressing his opinions of the situation did he attack quadders in particular, he is communicating to all users of OHV areas..regardless of what they ride.

As for LID, I'll let him speak for himself as I didn't at all see him pointing fingers nor mention quads or quadders in his comment. In fact, the only person I really see pointing any fingers in here is you.

 

[LID]

The things you're talking about I don't agree with either. I don't remember any quadder in this thread defending the actions you speak of above. But it has come to the point now that some are saying that the quadders driving through the mud and muskeg are going to get the areas shut down. What a bunch of BS!

If they tear up closed/sensitive terrain, especially in high visibility areas, it doesn't matter what they ride/drive, they're contributing to getting things closed down. Every time. Dirtbike, quad, truck, bike, horse, spaceship, boat, whatever. It doesn't matter the vehicle, you can do your part to help keep riding areas open, or you can do your part to get areas shut down. It's your choice. It's the government's rules.

Shibby and others are just pointing out how the rules are now, and they way we need to deal with the rules. There's a way to use areas that allow them to stay open, and there's ways to ride that will encourage them to be shut down. This isn't the 90's anymore, there's way more rules, way more riders, and way less SRD staff to enforce them. If the government thinks things are out of control, OR, if the government thinks that the general public thinks that things are out of control, they will not add extra enforcement to get riders in line, they will just shut the area down as they did in Waiprous.

There's too many people that sit in the city and have way more pull with the government than you and I. And those "armchair outdoorsy" people think that people who ride dirtbikes, quads, and 4x4's are retard rednecks with mullets and mis-spelled dukes of hazzard tatoos. We can work to prove them wrong or we can carry on and make them think they are right.

 

[Shibby!]

This issue of ripping up muskeg is WAY overblown. True, some is ripped up, but if you look at the VAST areas of muskeg in a given area, the areas along the trails are a VERY MINUTE part of that area. I don't believe the small amount along the trails upsets the area ecololgy much because the amount is so small. I'm not claiming to be an expert ecologist or biologist, but it only seems to make sense. If someone is going to argue the point that no muskeg or mud should be disturbed EVER by quads, etc., then that is extreme. The argument should then be made that there should be NO areas disturbed period, and that is the extreme radical environmental group argument. Where do we draw the line as to when disturbance is okay and not? If you compare the amount of disturbance that Industry does, oilfield and the timber, mining industries as well, recreation such as lodges, resorts, roads into these areas, etc. mud holes along quad trails are a grain of sand on the beach. Let's get some perspective on this for pete's sake. Yah you can argue that the public is against this, and SRD is going to shut down all areas down, but society is trying to ban everything nowadays anyway regardless of any sane arguments put forth from the other side. If the only way to keep areas open is to conform to a very stringent set of rules with everyone watching you and taking pictures of you, videos, etc., then what's the point of being out there? I get out in the bush to get away from it all, from all the stupid rules of society. You may not agree with my attitude, but I don't care anymore. I'm really getting tired of the Gov and those that support them always telling me what to do, and with this talk of reporting, pictures, etc. this is really getting to sound like Soviet Russia, where everyone was looking over their shoulder and ratting on their fellow man. If you think that me going through a mudhole is bad and wish to take a picture or video of me in order to report me to the Government, then go ahead, but have the balls to tell me you are doing so. Otherwise you are a spinless coward. Again, if you are going to do so, then you had better make sure your own behavior is irreprehensible, otherwise you are no better than me.

I agree, the abuse on the environment causes less damage then most make it out to be, however included in that majority of people are a) The general public, b) people touting these statistics that the general public believes.

As I said, WE NEED TO WIN OVER THE GENERAL PUBLIC before anything can improve. Talk to anybody who isn't involved in our sport and they have bad stories about that quader, or that dirt biker, or those campers. Right or wrong, they are the ones that make the decisions on our outcome.

An example. Wiaprous, a once popular area used by many just NW of Calgary, has mainly been restricted or closed down in recent years. Upon these areas I once rode, beautiful areas of dense forest once pronounced mis-used by motorcycles has been closed down. These areas consisted of a few trails equivalent to cow trails. Reports stated BEFORE the closure it would take decades to return to it's natural state. After closure, not one year after, reports stated areas returning or returned to proper state. Funny how that happens?

Upon visiting many of the locations on my dual sport, what do I see? Acres of leveled areas for forestry with no trees planted for years. The general public does not see this, or hear about it. They think all has returned to normal out there. The complaining stops.

I have taken video of some newly leveled areas this past weekend and will be presenting it to some news outlets to let SOME of the public know where their cry's for help end up. Now a few trails through the bush turn into completely leveled landscapes for profit. I no doubt think the forestry and oil industry deal with this on a daily basis, but they also have big lawers and fancy advertising compaigns to change the publics opinion, not to mention the millions of dollars and jobs they produce.

That being said, it's not impossible to work with SRD and the public. After years of hard work and literally 1000's of hours in volunteer help, a new motorcycle trail has been added to the Wiaprous map recognized and approved by SRD. This has been years in the making and shows they are willing to change IF we are willing to change. It's the only trail added since the closure and I have a good feeling, as long as things go well, things will continue to improve and we can have additional trials added, as well as other clubs opening trails for thier OHV vehicles.

An additional plug goes out to the trail builders and all those who volunteered their time to make it happen. Big thanks for the hours and dollars spent to make it happen!

what if that easygoing quadder was stone cold sober, would that make it any different?

Ahh.. WTF? Of course it does.

Ie. I'm going to crash into your car and kill your kid/wife/g/f. I'm drunk or have been drinking. Does it matter?

What kind of question is this??!!

You'll never get rid of ALL abusers. I won't work with a Government that makes policy on that basis.

As I said above, sorry to say that your opinion doesn't matter. A) You are doing nothing to voice your opinion if you aren't part of a group that speaks for a whole group, and b) your opinion alone is "a grain of salt on a beach". Sorry to say, but you are stuck with the government we have and how democracy works. You are a minority and they rarely win.

 

[shan]

hmmmm think everyone needs to take a deep breath and count to 10. lets not start or say something that will close the thread please.

i have seen mentioned of "clubs"... does anyone know how these clubs work? how easy would it be to get one started? is there a membership fee (like one would pay for a snowmobile season pass?)

 

[mudd kitty]

hmmmm think everyone needs to take a deep breath and count to 10. lets not start or say something that will close the thread please.

i have seen mentioned of "clubs"... does anyone know how these clubs work? how easy would it be to get one started? is there a membership fee (like one would pay for a snowmobile season pass?)

Oh Mrs.P Ur so good always trying to show peeps the bright side
I have no opinion because as I understand my opinion doesnt count.I like beer , quads and mud!! Actually going to do that after work!! And yes Ill do my part and pack out my cans try not to rip up too much and just have fun!!

 

[Shibby!]

hmmmm think everyone needs to take a deep breath and count to 10. lets not start or say something that will close the thread please.

i have seen mentioned of "clubs"... does anyone know how these clubs work? how easy would it be to get one started? is there a membership fee (like one would pay for a snowmobile season pass?)

There are clubs out there already. We don't need more clubs, we need less working together to form a single goal.

I'll refrain from certain comments, but some clubs made it completely clear where they stand with others, so some went off on their own and doing much better because of it.

In either event, there are clubs for quads, dirt bikes, and trucks. Google searches lead you to all of them. Research what the club does to promote what you want. Some of these clubs see hundred of thousands of dollars a year to do this, much of that money comes from this so called Government some of S&M users don't want to be part of.

Most if not all have membership fees. Nothing comes for free. I can't speak for all clubs, but being that they are mostly non-profit, all your money goes towards the cause of the club. Be it to pay for volunteer expenses, lawyers, equipment, materials, services, etc. A club should have public expense data to show where ALL their funds go.

I know I sound offensive, but people need to get their heads out of their ass's or what we have now will soon be gone. There are far too many asshats ruining it for those who do right, or have changed. We are only asking for the basics. If everybody did that there would massive improvements.

 

[rzrgade]

I honestly don't think ANYONE is saying it just quadders ripping through mud and skeg and tearing up the land, I'm pretty sure everyone who is pointing out these factors is applying it to any person/machine using the trails.Period.

Sorry but you are mistaken . Dirt bikes don`t go far in muskeg or mud for that matter.
So , who else is he implying is going in the mud and skeg ?

This is a snow and MUD forum , if as the dirt bike rider claims he advises us to NOT go in any mud please show me what trails we can ride that don`t have a mud hole or soft spot !

As a rider of over 40 years ( dirtbikes,quads ,s/s ,jeeps ) i am sorry but of it rains and you have tires it turns to mud.

I and quite a few others are sick and tired of being blamed for closures from some of our dirt biker /sledder cousins . I don`t threaten to film highmarkers because they might die in avalanches ,nor do i photograph dirt bikers who for some reason always have to climb that alpine hill (eg : bighorn )

I in fact pick up more garbage on the trail from teen age dirt bikers that carry in but don`t carry out... I am not pointing fingers this is just a fact.

Now you might say well we all don`t do that,well guess what neither do all the quadders do the things they are acused of. The difference is the quadders are not on here preaching and bashing the others every post !!!

I do not litter ,or drink while riding . How ever i DO and WILL ride in the mud so please get out your camera and flash away ,just don`t get it muddy....

 

[rzrgade]

Please stay away from Calgary and areas.

We're working hard to prevent "mud riding" and keep areas open. You guys are only hurting the cause and making it more difficult for us.

It's being proposed a mandory registration fee be charged upon registering OHV's to help raise money to close off such areas and properly manage trails.

That's all we have to do to make a massive change. Stay out of water and mud. Simple isn't it?

Flame away.

Sure no one is against us mudders....lol

 

[Shibby!]

You guys to the north seem to have a different issues. Our areas for the most part are extremely clean. I've only run into bad areas after long weekends which is not caused by the "normal" users. Garbage is the least of our worries.

I rarely see any bottles, cans, or garbage on the trails, be that truck, ATV, or bike. If I do I stop and pick it up, and most appeared to have fallen off rather then thrown out.

True, even legal trails are often very muddy. I rode one this weekend trying to get from point A to point B on a legal trail in Wiaprous. The big thing here is to stay on legal trails. Yes, some of them are still muddy, but those venturing off legal trials to find their own mud is a different issue. This involves using bridges and not going through the river/stream below, or into lakes, etc.

A common trait in the mountain bike community is to stay off trails when wet. I know this is asking much more then most can handle of the OHV community, but I practice it in a way that doesn't limit my riding, but just where I ride. I know of legal trail systems that are rideable with no additional wear even after a downpour. I stay to these trails to avoid excessive errosion.

 

[imdoo'n]

man i just find it funny that a few of you just can't get it. people are becoming po'd about the stupid antics of a few 4x4er's, quadders, dirt bikers, sledders, drinkers,partiers,etc. (hope i didn't single you out). take a look at were you are allowed to ride around calgary, sites are small. sledding west of rocky has only a very few small areas left. srd has an agenda to close more area's. area's around edmonton are being shut down. it is beyond me why you , seem to think you have the right to rip and tear where ever you think you can. your selfish stupidity will get areas i like to ride in shut down.
if you are not part of the solution you become the problem.


sounds like you may see your picture posted where you don't want it to be. all i can say is use a little common sense

 

[medler]

I have rode at Maclean Creek once and wont ride there again..It was full of 4 ' deep holes ,,took forever to go anywhere....And i came to a intersection on a trail and there was a white chevy xtended cab burnt up just sitting there,,looked like crap .Why hasnt it been cleaned up...Licence plate cut in half,,,didn't look for a vin but i am sure it has been removed.Shibby probably knows where this is .
.I do my part to clean up,, maybe more than my part, Just if your stuck dont keep ripping up a hole ,,,drag your winch line out and keep on going.

 

[Skegmeister]

I have taken a couple steps similar to Shibby on getting the message to SRD and the public about the few bad actors are smearing the image of OHV community.
I believe the stewardship of our Clubs and associations will be a big part of getting that message out there as long we have active members promoting the public messages about responsible behaviors and be proactive on managing the trails we have already.
I am sold on joining up and I a couple in mind I want to join.
Fos now that is the best bang for my buck right now until I can find out more about how and who has control of the permissions to grant access to public lands in Alberta. It is not as easy as it looks...

 

[Shibby!]

I have rode at Maclean Creek once and wont ride there again..It was full of 4 ' deep holes ,,took forever to go anywhere....And i came to a intersection on a trail and there was a white chevy xtended cab burnt up just sitting there,,looked like crap .Why hasnt it been cleaned up...Licence plate cut in half,,,didn't look for a vin but i am sure it has been removed.Shibby probably knows where this is .
.I do my part to clean up,, maybe more than my part, Just if your stuck dont keep ripping up a hole ,,,drag your winch line out and keep on going.

There are no vehicles in Mclean. I assume this was after a long weekend?

That's pretty much the only time I've seen a vehicle left behind, and when that happens the truck guys are great at coming in with the proper vehicles and semi's to remove them. They generally aren't there for too long.

To say Mclean is all 4' deep puddles is a major misconception. I guess it depends on what you ride. For quad trails? Yea, if you don't know which ones are good many of them have deep holes. For motorcycles? You're riding the wrong trails. We rarely see any puddles on the rides I guide, and if they are there they are normally only a few inches deep. Anybody that knows me knows I hate riding through water and mud. Apart from this conversation it just kills me to ride through deep puddles and water crossings. It's not enjoyable, getting wet sucks, and it's hard on equipment.

 

[fargineyesore]

I agree, the abuse on the environment causes less damage then most make it out to be, however included in that majority of people are a) The general public, b) people touting these statistics that the general public believes.

As I said, WE NEED TO WIN OVER THE GENERAL PUBLIC before anything can improve. Talk to anybody who isn't involved in our sport and they have bad stories about that quader, or that dirt biker, or those campers. Right or wrong, they are the ones that make the decisions on our outcome.

An example. Wiaprous, a once popular area used by many just NW of Calgary, has mainly been restricted or closed down in recent years. Upon these areas I once rode, beautiful areas of dense forest once pronounced mis-used by motorcycles has been closed down. These areas consisted of a few trails equivalent to cow trails. Reports stated BEFORE the closure it would take decades to return to it's natural state. After closure, not one year after, reports stated areas returning or returned to proper state. Funny how that happens?

Upon visiting many of the locations on my dual sport, what do I see? Acres of leveled areas for forestry with no trees planted for years. The general public does not see this, or hear about it. They think all has returned to normal out there. The complaining stops.

I have taken video of some newly leveled areas this past weekend and will be presenting it to some news outlets to let SOME of the public know where their cry's for help end up. Now a few trails through the bush turn into completely leveled landscapes for profit. I no doubt think the forestry and oil industry deal with this on a daily basis, but they also have big lawers and fancy advertising compaigns to change the publics opinion, not to mention the millions of dollars and jobs they produce.

That being said, it's not impossible to work with SRD and the public. After years of hard work and literally 1000's of hours in volunteer help, a new motorcycle trail has been added to the Wiaprous map recognized and approved by SRD. This has been years in the making and shows they are willing to change IF we are willing to change. It's the only trail added since the closure and I have a good feeling, as long as things go well, things will continue to improve and we can have additional trials added, as well as other clubs opening trails for thier OHV vehicles.

An additional plug goes out to the trail builders and all those who volunteered their time to make it happen. Big thanks for the hours and dollars spent to make it happen!




Ahh.. WTF? Of course it does.

Ie. I'm going to crash into your car and kill your kid/wife/g/f. I'm drunk or have been drinking. Does it matter?

What kind of question is this??!!



As I said above, sorry to say that your opinion doesn't matter. A) You are doing nothing to voice your opinion if you aren't part of a group that speaks for a whole group, and b) your opinion alone is "a grain of salt on a beach". Sorry to say, but you are stuck with the government we have and how democracy works. You are a minority and they rarely win.

As for the drinking thing, I'll be as p*ssed of at someone if they hit my wife/kid and kill them if they haven't had anything to drink as someone that had a couple beers (NOT DRUNK, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME). It won't matter to me. I don't condone drunk quadding, and I hope I don't have to repeat that again! Whatever, I'm sick of discussing this with you guys and gals. If you don't like me riding in the mud, too bad. I get your points, but I will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. I don't ride in the areas close to the cities anyway, so you don't have to worry about me. I ride out in the bush far away from cities, where there are no "designated trails" or clubs, so I doubt we'll cross paths. Good day.

 

[medler]

There are no vehicles in Mclean. I assume this was after a long weekend?

That's pretty much the only time I've seen a vehicle left behind, and when that happens the truck guys are great at coming in with the proper vehicles and semi's to remove them. They generally aren't there for too long.

To say Mclean is all 4' deep puddles is a major misconception. I guess it depends on what you ride. For quad trails? Yea, if you don't know which ones are good many of them have deep holes. ]

This was past the campground at the "Y" where the road is closed in winter....down there a ways and on the left...in a random camp area,,,(maybe not Maclean creek itself)...is where the truck is ....And it was about 3-4 weeks ago....
Like i said it was my first time there and the guy i was with said it was maclean creek ,maybe he was lost IDK

 

[JayBec]

this thread is hilarious, if you start from front to back, it is amasing how many times things are being said an repeated, and he said, she said, like Mrs P. said, we all need to step back a notch,

we all know what is going on, quit blaming eachother ( isnt the whole point of this site is to meet and greet an be friends and hook up for rides, not meet an greet and bitch and point fingers...

people keep sayin its the quadders, an some keep saying its the dirt bikes, now it th sleds ( on top of 3ft or 8 plus ft of snow in the mountains), like give it up already, this group is not the group and the only people out there on machines,we cant fathem how many people are out on the trails,

I for one, am responsible out in the backwoods and am gonna keep doin what i do, Have Fun, if we cant do that with our quads an bikes an sleds than whats the point of owning them,

Be smart.Were all adults here, time to stop whining an complaining and pointin fingers, lets just grab a 6 pack and go play...

 

[buzzednbored]

Gay....that's all I have to say.

 

[Shibby!]

There are no vehicles in Mclean. I assume this was after a long weekend?

That's pretty much the only time I've seen a vehicle left behind, and when that happens the truck guys are great at coming in with the proper vehicles and semi's to remove them. They generally aren't there for too long.

To say Mclean is all 4' deep puddles is a major misconception. I guess it depends on what you ride. For quad trails? Yea, if you don't know which ones are good many of them have deep holes. ]

This was past the campground at the "Y" where the road is closed in winter....down there a ways and on the left...in a random camp area,,,(maybe not Maclean creek itself)...is where the truck is ....And it was about 3-4 weeks ago....
Like i said it was my first time there and the guy i was with said it was maclean creek ,maybe he was lost IDK

Sounds like Mclean. If you were riding quad in that area it had to be. Everywhere else is closed to OHV use.

3-4 weeks ago puts you pretty darn close to the long weekend. I was through that area around or after that time and the vehicle was gone.

As I said, lots of users who abuse the areas do this, however the repsonsible people clean it up. They generally aren't there for long.

 

[Shibby!]

this thread is hilarious, if you start from front to back, it is amasing how many times things are being said an repeated, and he said, she said, like Mrs P. said, we all need to step back a notch,

we all know what is going on, quit blaming eachother ( isnt the whole point of this site is to meet and greet an be friends and hook up for rides, not meet an greet and bitch and point fingers...

people keep sayin its the quadders, an some keep saying its the dirt bikes, now it th sleds ( on top of 3ft or 8 plus ft of snow in the mountains), like give it up already, this group is not the group and the only people out there on machines,we cant fathem how many people are out on the trails,

I for one, am responsible out in the backwoods and am gonna keep doin what i do, Have Fun, if we cant do that with our quads an bikes an sleds than whats the point of owning them,

Be smart.Were all adults here, time to stop whining an complaining and pointin fingers, lets just grab a 6 pack and go play...

I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. If WE ALL play by the rules we won't have an issue we can continue to play. This site isn't a means of just meeting people, but a means of getting information out to a large group of people.

If we don't, you are right. Sell the toy that is worth nothing because the areas will all be closed.

I'll repeat myself for good measure. It's simple really. Just play by the rules and respect the environment. Everybody. Trucks, Quads, DB's, hikers, mountain bikers, fly fishers, etc. I do a lot of outdoor activities and hate seeing areas close.

 

[-LadyDirt-]

Shibby I think everything you have said has been helpful, and you have provided some very logic, informative and relative information about the SRD and OHV areas, clubs etc and you make very VALID points, that clearly apply to everyone, all OHV users. It's too bad some people just don't understand what you are saying and are taking it the wrong way, but I myself find I am more aware and knowledgable of the situation at hand because of your posts so thank you. I hope there were atleast a few people on here who agree with what you are saying and will use the information you've provided to their own and all OHV users advantage, because like mentioned previously, if you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem, so I just hope everyone rides respectively, responsibly and has fun doing it and that's all anyone can ask, otherwise if you are apart of the select few (not saying anyone here or pointing any fingers) that happen to be contributing to the problems that will lead to closures, then all I can say is don't be crying about it when you have to sell your toys cuz your favourite or local riding areas are shut down...