Question about Log Truck Drivers.

[MK4TDI]

as for the radio solution what I run in my truck is 2 radio's but only one has a mike, the other is only to monitor. As I am coming out loaded I have my monitor on the channel I am about to enter so I can track traffic. I only run one mike and only treat one radio as a true radio because I found if you have 2 mikes you often call on the wrong channel and create even more confussion. Similar when in the bush, I always have my radio on the block channel but I have my monitor on the road channel so I know when and were the next truck is, when I am at the hammer if I know the guy is getting close, I take my time wrapping up and dont bother leaving till he is on site. To simplify the confusion of two radios, I have the main radio working through the truck speaker system so its always loud and clear, the 2nd monitor only uses the radios speaker itself so it is very easy to distinguish which radio you are hearing. To go along with that I use Kenwood radio's and you can program 4 buttons as presets so I can switch from one road channel to another with one button push.

I find the one radio, one monitor to be the best solution for me since I have started trucking, but sadly, it is against WCB and Mill regulations, but guess what, they can go f**ck themselves on this one.

I'm quite surprised that is against the reg, what is their terrible logic behind that rule?

I've been in equipment running 2 radios in the mines and that can be a pain in the ass, what you have setup in your truck is a great idea.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I'm quite surprised that is against the reg, what is their terrible logic behind that rule?

I've been in equipment running 2 radios in the mines and that can be a pain in the ass, what you have setup in your truck is a great idea.

the logic behind 2 radios is most guys used their 2nd radio for a BS radio and spent more time listening to it and not monitoring their road channels and having some serious collisions because of it. Everyone has heard the old wives tale about 2 guys talking to each other on the radio and having a head on collision. Well I know of one instance where that did indeed happen, but the 2 guys were chatting away on their BS channels while the one guy was calling his miles on the 2nd radio, neither paying that much attention, more interested in the good story, came around a corner and both had to take the ditch to avoid each other, empty truck had little harm, loaded was a write off but atleast nobody got hurt.

When WCB investigates these things they usually look for the harm and not the good. In my case my arguement to them is I have one radio, one monitor.

 

[52weekbreak]

That's what I do. If I can't see I try to avoid the edge of the road. Hope I never have a head on,but I'm not hitting the ditch cause some idiot wants to have his cool lights on.

I find it frustrating when two trucks are passing on an oilfield or logging road and one winds up in the ditch because the other (usually seems like the empty one) didn't slow down enough and move over as far as he could. Loaded truck more often than not ends up on his side and is a write off.

Usually no witnesses or Center line so hard to prove one way or another. My advice is before you go off the right side of the road, at least lose your left mirror first.

All easy to say if you aren't in the driver's seat though.

 

[Stompin Tom]

definition of trucking

hours and hours of boredom interupted by seconds of sheer terror.

 

[freeflorider]

as for the radio solution what I run in my truck is 2 radio's but only one has a mike, the other is only to monitor. As I am coming out loaded I have my monitor on the channel I am about to enter so I can track traffic. I only run one mike and only treat one radio as a true radio because I found if you have 2 mikes you often call on the wrong channel and create even more confussion. Similar when in the bush, I always have my radio on the block channel but I have my monitor on the road channel so I know when and were the next truck is, when I am at the hammer if I know the guy is getting close, I take my time wrapping up and dont bother leaving till he is on site. To simplify the confusion of two radios, I have the main radio working through the truck speaker system so its always loud and clear, the 2nd monitor only uses the radios speaker itself so it is very easy to distinguish which radio you are hearing. To go along with that I use Kenwood radio's and you can program 4 buttons as presets so I can switch from one road channel to another with one button push.

I find the one radio, one monitor to be the best solution for me since I have started trucking, but sadly, it is against WCB and Mill regulations, but guess what, they can go f**ck themselves on this one.

Well stompin sound like you have been in the industry long enough and have a working system that keep you alive. Always happy to work with such a professional as yourself. You guys up north have a very stressful drive with all that traffic. Now to educate the new up in comers that this is not a joke, people die if your not giving a 100%. We have it so easy down here.
what a nightmare with so many contractors on one site, who takes on prime? There’s another flaw in the system.
Funny how it’s all safety and proper documentation until the mill runs short on fibre then it’s a friging circus.
cheers.

 

[freeflorider]

I can see gps tracking on all vechiles and a air traffic controller.

We use a trucking company that has a system like this. It’s a electronic log.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I find it frustrating when two trucks are passing on an oilfield or logging road and one winds up in the ditch because the other (usually seems like the empty one) didn't slow down enough and move over as far as he could. Loaded truck more often than not ends up on his side and is a write off.

Usually no witnesses or Center line so hard to prove one way or another. My advice is before you go off the right side of the road, at least lose your left mirror first.

All easy to say if you aren't in the driver's seat though.

yes, lots of that, in our case we travel on mostly one way roads so the empty has to clear the loaded, but on two way roads there are the few who either dont respect the other guy enough or are simply to scared to get over. Add in a bit of blowing snow, somebody in a hurry, ice on the roads and the graderman overplowed the road.

 

[Stompin Tom]

Well stompin sound like you have been in the industry long enough and have a working system that keep you alive. Always happy to work with such a professional as yourself. You guys up north have a very stressful drive with all that traffic. Now to educate the new up in comers that this is not a joke, people die if your not giving a 100%. We have it so easy down here.
what a nightmare with so many contractors on one site, who takes on prime? There’s another flaw in the system.
Funny how it’s all safety and proper documentation until the mill runs short on fibre then it’s a friging circus.
cheers.

I give Canfor credit for trying to come up with a solution after finding the problen, but where the real problem lies is its one managers job to get block layouts and approvals, another managers job to determine how much inventory the mill needs and yet another managers job to work with the contractors. So you have 3 heads who dont always communicate who make what they determine to be the best possible decision for their need, but by the time it all rolls down the hill, 3 good decisions turn into suicide for the guy on the ground. In this case once the crap hit the fan they built a quick road around the backside so the empties could access easier, but it took 3 weeks of hell for the guys to get any action. What is really amusing is it can take months to get a permit to build a road, or you can have a cat head out at 4pm on a friday and have a road built by monday.

As for myself it is an advantage being an owner, I an make desisions for myself, spend some money on an idea if I like it. I feel for the drivers who are simply handed a set of keys and told to go and figure it out.

 

[Stompin Tom]

We use a trucking company that has a system like this. It’s a electronic log.

Yes, Canfor has more of their major contractors using GPS tracking systems, but not for traffic control, but to analyze turn around times and wait times. Its a good tool when used properly. Electronic logs were supposed to be mandatory for logging jan 1 2018 but they have now pushed it back to 2019.

I personally want to see electronic logs mandatory, as well has having the CVSE exemtptions for work times for loggers rolled back to match highway truckers, There is really no reason in the world why we should be allowed 15 hours a day on duty time, as well as 80 hours a week. Cut it back to 14 hours a day and 70 per week, would be much safer out there. I also would like to see a piss test mandatory in the l logging industry.

 

[freeflorider]

Yes, Canfor has more of their major contractors using GPS tracking systems, but not for traffic control, but to analyze turn around times and wait times. Its a good tool when used properly. Electronic logs were supposed to be mandatory for logging jan 1 2018 but they have now pushed it back to 2019.

I personally want to see electronic logs mandatory, as well has having the CVSE exemtptions for work times for loggers rolled back to match highway truckers, There is really no reason in the world why we should be allowed 15 hours a day on duty time, as well as 80 hours a week. Cut it back to 14 hours a day and 70 per week, would be much safer out there. I also would like to see a piss test mandatory in the l logging industry.

I always say be carful of what you wish for, if a piss test was mandatory most of the logging company’s would loose 90% of there crew lol. Not trufully like this but it’s a high amount.
our trucks are struggling with poor rates down here and are trying to make it up with longer driving times. Reducing hours will kill the trucking world around here. We are trying to come to some sort of agreement with the mills where trucks can sustain there existence.
better rates and shorter duty times on the road will make things safer but no one wants to part with there money so this is where the industry stands.
we deal with small family owed mills and of course Interfor / celgar, offering a extra 10cents a ton hour just won’t cut it.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I always say be carful of what you wish for, if a piss test was mandatory most of the logging company’s would loose 90% of there crew lol. Not trufully like this but it’s a high amount.
our trucks are struggling with poor rates down here and are trying to make it up with longer driving times. Reducing hours will kill the trucking world around here. We are trying to come to some sort of agreement with the mills where trucks can sustain there existence.
better rates and shorter duty times on the road will make things safer but no one wants to part with there money so this is where the industry stands.
we deal with small family owed mills and of course Interfor / celgar, offering a extra 10cents a ton hour just won’t cut it.

What are you guys getting for tonne/hour rates?

The thing is if your working longer hours to make up for lower rates, your still cutting yourself off at the throat, longer hours, more fuel, more maintenance, more tire wear, more costs. Less compensation.

When it gets to bad there is really only one thing to do, try and get guys organized and pick an appropriate day to not show up for work. Where the price of lumber is, where the US dollar is, depsite the tariffs, the mills up here are making money hand over fist.

 

[freeflorider]

What are you guys getting for tonne/hour rates?

The thing is if your working longer hours to make up for lower rates, your still cutting yourself off at the throat, longer hours, more fuel, more maintenance, more tire wear, more costs. Less compensation.

When it gets to bad there is really only one thing to do, try and get guys organized and pick an appropriate day to not show up for work. Where the price of lumber is, where the US dollar is, depsite the tariffs, the mills up here are making money hand over fist.

The mills are doing very well here to. As a logging/ road building contractor we are seeing better rates because there is no one left to pick from, They killed off the little guys. As for the trucks, owner ops are really struggling and most large contractors have been buying there own and subsidizing them with the logging rates just to move there wood.
Right now there is a local group of contractors that own trucks along with owner ops That are in meeting with local mills trying to negotiate better rates.
Company's have hired independent groups to assses there trucking fleets and others have been tracking real time costs and are now bring it to the table.
fuel is a big problem as we see fuel rates jumping as much as 10-25 cents a liter at any point.
The rates are all over the map but on an average we’re seeing $3.50 ton hr. We would like to see $4 but the mills are in no way agreeing to this. Heals are dug in and last I heard they were will to give $3.60.ton hr.
As you know trucking has a ton of things working against them, Cost are high, fuel, icbc rate, tires, traffic, waiting times on the landing and scale times. It’s like being a one arm man in a juggling contest.
This reminds me of the housing delema in Vancouver, trucks and contractors are being forced to move on due to low incomes and increasing cost.

 

[Stompin Tom]

our rates depend on various things, configuration, longs, shorts, length of trips, right now we are on a long haul, over 11 hours, tonne hour is 4.32 for shorts, 4.26 for longs. My last rate chart also shows rates for shorter haul, 5 to 6 hours, 4.11 for shorts, 4.06 for longs.

If it is of any help to you, pm me and I will forward anything I get for rates up here if they can use them for comparisons to help the cause. Our last rate change was mid Novenber and mill has unwritten promise to move with fuel, but at 10 cent increments, in other words if fuel jumps 10 cents from last rate we go up, if it goes down, we go down. Then at the start of every season we get a base rate and work from there.

 

[Stompin Tom]

I always say be carful of what you wish for, if a piss test was mandatory most of the logging company’s would loose 90% of there crew lol. Not trufully like this but it’s a high amount.
our trucks are struggling with poor rates down here and are trying to make it up with longer driving times. Reducing hours will kill the trucking world around here. We are trying to come to some sort of agreement with the mills where trucks can sustain there existence.
better rates and shorter duty times on the road will make things safer but no one wants to part with there money so this is where the industry stands.
we deal with small family owed mills and of course Interfor / celgar, offering a extra 10cents a ton hour just won’t cut it.

You are right about the piss test, areas around here, especially the Mackenzie area would pretty much have to shut down. But that is the point, they turn a blind eye. DO the piss tests, if we loose a bunch of drivers so be it, we dont need that on the roads. Mills state there is a shortage of drivers. How do you remedy that? Two ways. Make is safer and pay more. Adjust rates until you attract the drivers. Its real simple in my mind.

 

[freeflorider]

You are right about the piss test, areas around here, especially the Mackenzie area would pretty much have to shut down. But that is the point, they turn a blind eye. DO the piss tests, if we loose a bunch of drivers so be it, we dont need that on the roads. Mills state there is a shortage of drivers. How do you remedy that? Two ways. Make is safer and pay more. Adjust rates until you attract the drivers. Its real simple in my mind.[/QUOTE

Very well put. I totally agree with you. In order to be recognized as a professional we need to act like one. The old ways are dead and we need to move forward as such. Better rates and safer roads along with the work sites. There is no place for half cocked people buzzed from lack of sleep going down the roads.
Thanks for the rate offer discussion as I will most likely take you up on this soon.
safe travels tomorrow.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

New tires, new chains, fresh snow post

Slow morning at the mill

 

[Bnorth]

Thanks for all you boys are doing out there. Forestry feeds my family and I don't forget it.

 

[Cyle]

With the way lumber prices have went up in the last few years, rates should be high enough to buy gold plated trucks..... OSB has more then doubled in 2 years. Most dimensional lumber isn't far off from doubling, at least 50% up. That's pretty bad if rates haven't went up at all. If trucking costs are nearly the same, stores are probably making about the same, the mills could be making double on the product or more.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

With the way lumber prices have went up in the last few years, rates should be high enough to buy gold plated trucks..... OSB has more then doubled in 2 years. Most dimensional lumber isn't far off from doubling, at least 50% up. That's pretty bad if rates haven't went up at all. If trucking costs are nearly the same, stores are probably making about the same, the mills could be making double on the product or more.

Rates can be better but always that one Ahole that is willing to do things cheaper and screws everyone else

 

[Bnorth]

With the way lumber prices have went up in the last few years, rates should be high enough to buy gold plated trucks..... OSB has more then doubled in 2 years. Most dimensional lumber isn't far off from doubling, at least 50% up. That's pretty bad if rates haven't went up at all. If trucking costs are nearly the same, stores are probably making about the same, the mills could be making double on the product or more.

Rates are up big time from the lows they hit in 08/09. The mills are trying to line their pockets over this super cycle after years and years of lean operating and barely breaking even, then on top of that spending $100's of millions on facility capital. Fibre is hugely constrained right now and is also at record or near record prices which drives up stumpage rates so while prices are great right now costs are up as well. Rates will continue to rise and the fibre constraints can work in the contractors favour as so many mills are trying to rebuild inventory and are more concerned with that than cost.