Nafta Talks

[eclipse1966]

so you are ok with ruining dairy farm lively hoods throughout Canada? Quebec has approx 350,000 dairy cows and the balance provinces including Ontario has 610,000 head so not only Quebec will be affected. There will be some changes on the supply management but don't wait for it to be gone overnight.

What grates on all the establishment politicians and special interests is the fact that they can’t bribe Trump into doing what they need him to do to promote their interests. It’s no accident that EVERY politician in the world leaves office far wealthier than they were when they started their political careers. Trump is the first one that doesn’t need to toe the line to get wealthy. Not to say that he won’t make decisions that will benefit his companies or family, but the difference is greed and influence aren’t his primary motivators.
As for NAFTA, it’s hilarious to see that weeble Christia freeland step up to the microphone and act like she has a say in what the deal will look like. The USA and Mexico have decided what the deal is gonna be. The really interesting thing is to see if Trudeau will destroy the Ontario economy to protect the Quebec dairy industry.

 

[snochuk]

so you are ok with ruining dairy farm lively hoods throughout Canada? Quebec has approx 350,000 dairy cows and the balance provinces including Ontario has 610,000 head so not only Quebec will be affected. There will be some changes on the supply management but don't wait for it to be gone overnight.

Open up/abolish the quota system and let free enterprise sort it out.
Dairy producers will have a lot more cash to work with - not as many as you think would suffer.
Subsidized with a quota system, that makes sense.

 

[eclipse1966]

kind of like the US dairy industry?? Its a HUGE mess!!!! Thats why they want Canada to open the borders to dump over produced dairy. Wisconsin is the worst! TBH, I am not in favour of a supply management situation from a consumers point of view but from a dairy farm operation it works and keeps things in balance for them to make a living without huge subsidies like in the US.

Also, keep in mind, once free enterprise comes in we say goodbye to the small family producer and huge corporations come in.

Open up/abolish the quota system and let free enterprise sort it out.
Dairy producers will have a lot more cash to work with - not as many as you think would suffer.
Subsidized with a quota system, that makes sense.

 

[snochuk]

kind of like the US dairy industry?? Its a HUGE mess!!!! Thats why they want Canada to open the borders to dump over produced dairy. Wisconsin is the worst! TBH, I am not in favour of a supply management situation from a consumers point of view but from a dairy farm operation it works and keeps things in balance for them to make a living without huge subsidies like in the US.

Also, keep in mind, once free enterprise comes in we say goodbye to the small family producer and huge corporations come in.

Sadly the rising cost of farming of any sort is pushing out the family farmers.
Not sure how you save them.
Lots of big corp farms. Who do the people of PEI sell to??? Hmmmmmm
Best life going but the front line producer gets beat down by either the market he has no control of and the amount of people trying to get a piece of the pie before it hits the consumer.

 

[Cdnfireman]

so you are ok with ruining dairy farm lively hoods throughout Canada? Quebec has approx 350,000 dairy cows and the balance provinces including Ontario has 610,000 head so not only Quebec will be affected. There will be some changes on the supply management but don't wait for it to be gone overnight.

I don’t want to see anyone’s livelihood ruined, but I think it’s fair to say that an time the government steps in to meddle with business or industries, someone somewhere gets screwed. Let the free market settle things out. I think the American producers will find that the Canadian market isn’t as lucrative as they hope, and I think that the smart, efficient Canadian producers will adapt and prosper and the less efficient, less flexible producers will have to step up or move to a different type of agribusiness.
I have relatives that used to deal with the wheat board to sell their wheat and barley. They then sold some barley to a cooperative that bought up barley for brewers after the wheat board was abolished. Long story short they now have contracts to sell their entire barley crop for prices better than they ever got from the wheat board, and now have a stable income year after year. Supply and demand without government interference is the best thing for most businesses.

 

[52weekbreak]

Yes that sounds appealing (let the market sort itself out) but it is brutal and does not always...in fact probably less than half the time...produce the best result.

US dairy industry is a mess so if there is something one should look at, it is that the US system isn't working well but Canada's seems quite stable. Kinda like our healthcare. Not perfect but overall, serves more people better than the US private enterprise system.

Trump by the way sucks up to rich corporations every day by eliminating environmental laws, taxes etc. so he is no better than previous government leaders he just goes about doing the same old thing in a different way while pissing off the rest of the world often needlessly.

As for the wheat board, it certainly had its problems but there are many that miss the overall security it gave. As a group you have strength and as individuals, you can easily be squashed. It seems the seed and chemical companies are taking over grain farming by way of their product. Dairy is one of the few items left that isn't getting screwed up. I think Trump feeds on that - chaos.

I don’t want to see anyone’s livelihood ruined, but I think it’s fair to say that an time the government steps in to meddle with business or industries, someone somewhere gets screwed. Let the free market settle things out. I think the American producers will find that the Canadian market isn’t as lucrative as they hope, and I think that the smart, efficient Canadian producers will adapt and prosper and the less efficient, less flexible producers will have to step up or move to a different type of agribusiness.
I have relatives that used to deal with the wheat board to sell their wheat and barley. They then sold some barley to a cooperative that bought up barley for brewers after the wheat board was abolished. Long story short they now have contracts to sell their entire barley crop for prices better than they ever got from the wheat board, and now have a stable income year after year. Supply and demand without government interference is the best thing for most businesses.

 

[snopro]

Yes that sounds appealing (let the market sort itself out) but it is brutal and does not always...in fact probably less than half the time...produce the best result.

US dairy industry is a mess so if there is something one should look at, it is that the US system isn't working well but Canada's seems quite stable. Kinda like our healthcare. Not perfect but overall, serves more people better than the US private enterprise system.

Trump by the way sucks up to rich corporations every day by eliminating environmental laws, taxes etc. so he is no better than previous government leaders he just goes about doing the same old thing in a different way while pissing off the rest of the world often needlessly.

As for the wheat board, it certainly had its problems but there are many that miss the overall security it gave. As a group you have strength and as individuals, you can easily be squashed. It seems the seed and chemical companies are taking over grain farming by way of their product. Dairy is one of the few items left that isn't getting screwed up. I think Trump feeds on that - chaos.

Speaking to your comment on the Wheat Board I know not one farmer in my community and County that misses it. We are all quite happy making way more money for our product than we ever did back in the Wheat Board days.

 

[lilduke]

Farmers had to buy into the quota system for millions of dollars per farm. So what, just **** them and the bank that in many cases lent the money to buy in to the current system?

 

[lilduke]

My best friend owns the biggest dairy operation in the red deer area. These dairy barns aren't ma and pa mickey mouse operations any more. The quota system is nothing like the wheat board.

If they go under they will be taking down local banks and equipment dealers and others with them. Won't be good.

 

[X-it]

Here is how arrogance handles NAFTA negotiations with Trump.
https://www.spencerfernando.com/201...eal-announcement-trudeau-didnt-take-the-call/

 

[Mike270412]

Here is how stupid our nitwit is, just before our talks with Trump are happening. What a friggin moron we have.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/parliamenthill/trudeau-praises-media-after-trump-calls-journalists-enemy-of-the-people/ar-BBMCHP1?ocid=spartandhp

 

[snochuk]

What a fawken bunch of idiots.
East just might get what they deserve for voting these retards in.
To bad that we will have to suffer with them.
What a fawked up mess for who gets voted in next and my kids to pay for.

 

[skegpro]

kind of like the US dairy industry?? Its a HUGE mess!!!! Thats why they want Canada to open the borders to dump over produced dairy. Wisconsin is the worst! TBH, I am not in favour of a supply management situation from a consumers point of view but from a dairy farm operation it works and keeps things in balance for them to make a living without huge subsidies like in the US.

Also, keep in mind, once free enterprise comes in we say goodbye to the small family producer and huge corporations come in.

Agreed, off the US will stop all ages subsidys then give them the supply management on a platter.

 

[skegpro]

Oh good, $250 mil subsidy for dairy farms.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4417114/canadian-dairy-farmers-receive-250-million-boost/

 

[X-it]

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/state-of-federal-finances-worse-than-previously-thought

 

[snochuk]

Oh good, $250 mil subsidy for dairy farms.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4417114/canadian-dairy-farmers-receive-250-million-boost/

Subsidized market.
At what point to you stop subsidizing what is not self sustainable???
You bet.....that is our tax dollars putting milk on the table out east. Other than greased and bent what is it that we get from the feds?
Controlled quota system does that.
And the producers get screwed on a quota costs.
If you are a small family farm and you want to increase your quota you cost per liter of quota increase is crazy.
Established farms are a bit protected but up and coming -family farms - will get raped on quota increase costs.
Sledding friend used to run the milk truck north of Edmonton - dairy quota system was no better here.
Quota systems are there to control the system, most certainly not there for the producer first. Quota system is to control pricing........good for middle man marketers to main't in control. Got no use for quota system.
Free enterprise fixes that.
Quit a few 10-15000 acre family farms by my place.
It can be done.

 

[Bnorth]

I'll take supply management over straight up government subsidy like in the US. Does supply management raise the cost to the consumer? You bet it does but it becomes a consumption tax, it's your choice to buy and consume that product. A straight subsidy gives the tax payer no choice, they are obligated to support the industry whether they use the product or not. I don't want the US inferior product in my fridge that comes from over medicated and growth hormone exposed cattle.

Trump may not be swayed by monetary gain but he is just as susceptible to BS lobby groups as any other leader. Look at the tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber and paper that have done nothing besides drive up the cost to the US consumer and put US print media at even greater risk of bankruptcy. The US producers have a very strong lobby and whine about unfair Canadian subsidies meanwhile 3 of the largest Canadian producers are buying US mills left and right and making money hand over fist. Fibre and labour in the US south is cheaper than in Canada but these antiquated old mill owners haven't invested in building efficient mills. They run old junk and instead whine to get tariffs against Canada. Trump falls for it just like his predecessors.

 

[eclipse1966]

I do agree with your comment but comparing the wheat board and dairy supply management is not exactly the same. Dairy farmers enjoy a stable revenue set by the board consisting mainly of farmers themselves whereas the wheat board pooled returns back to the growers at the end of the crop season and the farmers were at the mercy of the boards decision making in terms of when to sell. Dismantling the wheat board was the best thing for farmers. I am not sure sure on the dairy. If we see this come to flourish in then it will be a very expensive venture for the government and banks. in BC the avg cost of quota per dairy cow is $42,000. Cheaper in ON and QC but way up there as well. Who will pay for the loss of quota? You and me!

I don’t want to see anyone’s livelihood ruined, but I think it’s fair to say that an time the government steps in to meddle with business or industries, someone somewhere gets screwed. Let the free market settle things out. I think the American producers will find that the Canadian market isn’t as lucrative as they hope, and I think that the smart, efficient Canadian producers will adapt and prosper and the less efficient, less flexible producers will have to step up or move to a different type of agribusiness.
I have relatives that used to deal with the wheat board to sell their wheat and barley. They then sold some barley to a cooperative that bought up barley for brewers after the wheat board was abolished. Long story short they now have contracts to sell their entire barley crop for prices better than they ever got from the wheat board, and now have a stable income year after year. Supply and demand without government interference is the best thing for most businesses.

 

[skegpro]

It really surprising how many of you support supply management. Why?

Mind you I wasn't around when Pierre Trudeau launch the milk mafia.......

Why isn't everything quota based if it's such a a good idea?

Wheat, Canola, Steel, Oil?

$42,000 for quota on a cow? Wtf

Buy a cow, milk cow, sell milk is how it should work.

Anyone with big enough balls to lend into or buy into a commodity solely propped up by government must have realized the risk?

 

[eclipse1966]

Dustin, support from me depends on which seat I am in. From a consumer point.... get rid of it! From a business side, because I deal with US dairies I have seen first hand the mess the free market is in down there and complete joke. Also, like Bnorth said rather pay higher and not have the government constantly take tax payers money to constantly prop the industry up which is happening in the US. Free market is good otherwise I would be out of biz if it was locked up but in this case I have seen too much negative to convince me otherwise. Hope I am wrong.

It really surprising how many of you support supply management. Why?

Mind you I wasn't around when Pierre Trudeau launch the milk mafia.......

Why isn't everything quota based if it's such a a good idea?

Wheat, Canola, Steel, Oil?

$42,000 for quota on a cow? Wtf

Buy a cow, milk cow, sell milk is how it should work.

Anyone with big enough balls to lend into or buy into a commodity solely propped up by government must have realized the risk?