For Side Winder rider's

[Lund]

Let's post up some track speed numbers you guy's.
As condition varies it will be interesting to see the changes in the track speed.
Also different climbs, track lengths and tuning variations.
This could also help in trying to get the most out of our current sled in the way it is set up.

So these last few day's i was out with friends and if your a sledder your aware of the dumping of snow in the Revy Sicamous area. Its been armpit deep these few day's.

So to set the scene, conditions are as i mentioned above. My sled has a pipe and CAI otherwise completely stock engine tuning. It has my clutching and gearing combination to turn the 174 track.

The pull, a simple 30deg grade with a solid 3+ft of fresh snow, completely untracked. I did two pull's with same track speed. 67MPH...and NO its not KPM.

To help put thing's abit into perspective, 2 G4 and a 17 Cat all stock sled's other then aftermarket can's, all three running 162-3 track's 3" except the Cat with a 2.6" lug.
Best track speed claimed was 48MPH, from the Cat.

Not trying to compare with any of the 2 strokes it's not the point, but giving a perspective of the track speed capability of the SW.
I will continue to post results of my finding's as the season goes on and condition change, also if i do tuning changes.
I will also post the results of when i install the MCX 250 kit. Now seeing what this motor is capable of laying, i suspect this sled will be 75+MPH track turner similar to the Apex but with the agility that is much closer to a 2 stroke, something that could not be had from most 4 stroke's till now.....Very exciting.

BTW i had a blast busting powder these last few day's.

 

[Catman10]

I would love to know your clutching and gearing because my sled is basically identical to yours except i have stock gearing and clutching and you are getting 13 mph more trackspeed than me? I have put 700 kms on my sled with a 174 and see constant speeds of 52-55 mph depending on snow, I have to say I love your numbers but have a hard time believing a 12 mph difference. Even if I was in super fluffy stuff i dont think i would see 67 mph, even geared down and different helix and springs would be a stretch to get there, are you sure your speedo is accurate now with your driver changes etc, not picking on you here but seems like your numbers are a little hi, i would love to get more speed outta mine with gearing etc but no one has really done it yet as these are so new to the game. I like this forum because of the learning aspect so please share your setup!

 

[06yamahaapex]

I have stock tune. Lightweight battery, 2.8/162 track and cr resonater. I see 54-56mph climbing out of airport bowl on boulder last weekend. I had to put qay66 weights in it to keep it off the rev limiter after cutting the 40lbs. Stock springs and helix. What are you guys running for clutching ?

 

[pfi572]

I would PM Lund and see if he’’s interested in helping with tuning?
Most that know wont discuss on open forum as to many other experts offering and telling that your full of it . Lol
Just my two cents.
Back on topic of track speeds ???

 

[Catman10]

I am not claiming to be an expert nor saying he is full of it, there just is a very big difference that is really hard to achieve with just clutching and gearing, I have clutched all of my sleds since 1997 and i know that it is an art forsure and I am intrigued by his numbers without a doubt. I apologize if I come across as a jerk but put some pudding to your numbers and lets see what comes of it. Lund please please pm me if this is a top secret, I know there can be an improvement but have no info on how to do so and no one has worked with the 174 so there is little knowlege out there, trust me I have been calling around.

 

[pfi572]

My comment wasn’t directed at you . Just more in general.
And with good clutching and gearing huge gains can be .
Cheers

 

[Kibbels]

Lund... are you geared 21/49 = 2.33 (that is stock 2017 MTX) .. I also don’t recall your drivers?
Just trying to figure this out as 67 mph track speed is impressive... yes what is your clutching?

 

[Lund]

I don't know if i would get too hung up on the current 67mph, condition's might had been perfect for that. Even though it was deep, the snow was very light.
In a heavier snow i suspect the track speed could had been less. This is why i will be doing this multiple times to get an average. It would be nice if we all pitched in, this way we could get a pretty good idea of a decent setup.
Track speed performance is an excellent indicator of a good setup.
At this moment i don't want to divulge the setup simply because it might end up changing, if it doesn't satisfy and this could lead to confusion as i change things. I'am also playing with stock tuning for the 174, later we will see how that works with the power up setup.
I will post the setup once all is said and done, but your input would be appreciated on your findings.

This is what i noticed pulling this little hill. The SW hooks up and gets up on top extremely fast, i was told by my buddies by the time the Winder is a 1/4 of the way up on this hill the Winder is completely out of the snow and basically riding the rear 1/2 to 2/3 of the track. There is basically no snow resistance, what i noticed is the sled just keeps accelerating not by little but extremely hard as long as you keep her high. Surprisingly even though it was deep the 174 hooked up to the Winder will turn fast and still stay hooked up to get the sled up high. I honestly believe the 4 stroke torque allows this to happen.

 

[Lund]

Lund... are you geared 21/49 = 2.33 (that is stock 2017 MTX) .. I also don’t recall your drivers?
Just trying to figure this out as 67 mph track speed is impressive... yes what is your clutching?

The clutching is key.
I know someone setting up another Winder with a very different setup and we will compare. If his is what he thinks it will be, it will be very impressive. But it is still in the works.

 

[Lund]

I have stock tune. Lightweight battery, 2.8/162 track and cr resonater. I see 54-56mph climbing out of airport bowl on boulder last weekend. I had to put qay66 weights in it to keep it off the rev limiter after cutting the 40lbs. Stock springs and helix. What are you guys running for clutching ?

The hill we were doing was nothing like the Airport bowl. This last few day's avy risks was very high so we were staying off any risky stuff. 56mph on that climb is pretty good IMO. I suspect mine would not get much better.

 

[roughriders]

revy 3 feet of fresh with 2018 stock track, pipe and intake. out of the airport also was right around that 55mph at 9000rpm. 174 going on before next trip, will see what it changes. need to decide on 7 or 8 tooth drivers

 

[06yamahaapex]

Is racers edge making a rear arm for the new rail yet? These sleds need one for sure.

 

[Kibbels]

Is racers edge making a rear arm for the new rail yet? These sleds need one for sure.

Yup .. Give Darryl a call! They are same for AC or Yam...

 

[Lund]

revy 3 feet of fresh with 2018 stock track, pipe and intake. out of the airport also was right around that 55mph at 9000rpm. 174 going on before next trip, will see what it changes. need to decide on 7 or 8 tooth drivers

If your turning 9000rpm you will never get the true power out of your SW and never get good track speed. 8750rpm is your shift rpm.

 

[Lund]

Ok, here is one tip on setting up.
Because your sled is a claimed 200+hp monster it doesn't mean it is really putting out. Here is why, to make power you need to load the crank. On a dyno we do this by removing the clutch and hooking up a stator/rotor assembly and applying pressure usually with water. If you don't apply pressure the HP reading's will remain very low, no matter what rpm you run the motor at. But as you apply pressure the HP will start going up, too the point that you will either max out the dyno pressure or the capability of the motor to produce more.
This all applies in normal usage, if you don't apply enough load to the crank your motor will not make power, even if your turning 9,000rpm.

Here is the point, these sleds like all OTHER sleds are tuned to a generic setup, one that will work for the general public buying them. Yamaha mountain sled's are tested and calibrated to perform well up to 8,000ft, from the factory. After that you need to recalibrate the clutches.
The problem with this generic calibration is PERSONALLY i don't ride at 8,000ft. Most all my riding is done from 5-6500ft and on rare occasion's maybe less then 10% see 8,000ft.
Honestly, where can you ride continually at 8,000ft in BC?
So, what does this tell us? To perform well at 8,000ft, you need to run a light enough clutch weight or the sled will not pull as intended. But it also means its too light for good performance at 6500ft.
Too light of a weight robs you of power, no power, no track speed.

 

[06yamahaapex]

What weights are you running Lund

 

[Lund]

Here is another issue we found with the MTX, the 162 track is hopeless and with all honesty doesn't belong on a turbo'ed 4 stroke.
Don't get me wrong i personally love the PC but only on an 800, it is my opinion that the PC is one of the best tracks out there.
So why not on the MTX??
Its too soft, it folds under heavy loads and hookup is poor on a 200+hp sled. On an 800, its an awesome track.
Folding track's equal's poor track speed's as the sled truly never can get high up on the snow where resistance is less.
My experience in doing high powered builds has taught me this about track's. The stiffer the better LOL and what works and what you have been told about track's with 800 sled's, goes out the window. It doesn't apply in the 4 stroke turbo world.
This is why i opt to the CamoX 9115M, it is the stiffest track made. No folding lugs means i get on top of the snow before you can blink and generate a poop load of track speed and speed. The bad thing is, its a rough riding track.

 

[Lund]

What weights are you running Lund

We are running 2 sets of weights at this time and setting up another Winder with different experimental gearing for fun. That's all i'm saying.

I will let all know the secret's LOL once we are done. For a stock tuned sled.

 

[Kibbels]

So this 67mph has me perplexed as I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. So you had 8 tooth in BTX now 7. That being said you are calibrated for 8 tooth now I don’t know exact OD measurements however I suspect this could be 10-13% error. Also I’m going to guess that your bottom is 52 = 2.476 R .. with a Stock MTX helix with possibly stock MTX Spring wound tight as your sisters arse. Since this is a guessing game.., as many or all are getting 55-56 either it be 162 or 174... interesting enough 174 is pulling down rpm as per expected but still achieve consistent 55 in all conditions. So for chits & giggles with a 2.5R and some different clutching are we looking at 58 mph track speed?? Not saying your wrong I’m just racking my little brain... look forward to your feed back!!

 

[pfi572]

Isn’t it 7-8% difference between 7 and 8 tooth drivers ?
That was my calculation. Lol