BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

[ferniesnow]

Huh, don't understand what ya mean on the last part about passes

sent while drinking tea's

If you buy a membership, you don't have to pay for a daily trail pass. You can buy a membership in Revy and a membership in Sicamous and ride both places as often as you want without additional costs of the daily trail pass.

 

[tex78]

Yes

sent while drinking tea's

 

[sledn]

Although these proposals would benefit BCSF and some clubs, it will drive away a lot of occasional users. Many groups only get out to the mountains one or two times a year with the families because of all the added costs of B.C . (Bring Cash) is already going to notice a large drop in tourism cash this year (Notely,Trudeau and Oil$).Regular posters on here would not be affected much with these small added fees because it is a small percentage of their snowmobiling budget. This is not a true representative of the typical tourist with a smaller budget and paycheck . I foresee small sledding towns like Valemont and Mcbride feeling a major drop in business. Small business in BC will feel a lot of pain.

 

[moyiesledhead]

You seem to be stuck on this.

Can the law be changed?
(And where can one read about this law)

What do you suggest needs to happen then if all our suggestions are illegal......?

I'm only stuck on it because it keeps getting suggested. When I started this thread I was looking for comments on the current proposal. The current proposal doesn't include things like this because the BCSF know we can't do it. If we violate the terms of our management agreements, and then lose them, we lose the right to collect any money at all. Sorry, but that's the way it is. We have to work within the rules.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Although these proposals would benefit BCSF and some clubs, it will drive away a lot of occasional users. Many groups only get out to the mountains one or two times a year with the families because of all the added costs of B.C . (Bring Cash) is already going to notice a large drop in tourism cash this year (Notely,Trudeau and Oil$).Regular posters on here would not be affected much with these small added fees because it is a small percentage of their snowmobiling budget. This is not a true representative of the typical tourist with a smaller budget and paycheck . I foresee small sledding towns like Valemont and Mcbride feeling a major drop in business. Small business in BC will feel a lot of pain.

Occasioanal users would still have the option of just buying a day pass instead of a provincial membership. Day passes don't go away with this proposal.

 

[catinthehat]

Unfortunately most people on here only have experience with the big clubs and not the small struggling ones.
I have never ridden any of them, but all the talk seems to center around specific managed trails in their areas.
What is the percentage of riding area around these places that is free to ride without encroaching on their territories?
The reason I ask this is that here in Cranbrook the club manages one area that comprises maybe 1 - 2 percent of available riding.
It is the reason the vast majority of local riders do not belong to nor support the club, raising the membership fees is only going to push more away.

 

[lilduke]

Unfortunately most people on here only have experience with the big clubs and not the small struggling ones.
I have never ridden any of them, but all the talk seems to center around specific managed trails in their areas.
What is the percentage of riding area around these places that is free to ride without encroaching on their territories?
The reason I ask this is that here in Cranbrook the club manages one area that comprises maybe 1 - 2 percent of available riding.
It is the reason the vast majority of local riders do not belong to nor support the club, raising the membership fees is only going to push more away.

The club managed area is maybe 10% of the total riding area in Revelstoke. But those 2 areas (Boulder and Frisby) see a LOT of traffic.

Maybe your area doesn't really need a club?

 

[ferniesnow]

The club managed area is maybe 10% of the total riding area in Revelstoke. But those 2 areas (Boulder and Frisby) see a LOT of traffic.

Maybe your area doesn't really need a club?

Boulder and Frisby, or in general, Revy is the crown jewel of riding for most riders (British Columbians and out of province riders). I see that and it is understandable.

To say that "maybe your area doesn't really need a club?" is not what BC snowmobiling needs. It needs more clubs and more members. If we push more locals away to the unmanaged areas snowmobiling is in way deeper kaka........IMHO

 

[catinthehat]

The club managed area is maybe 10% of the total riding area in Revelstoke. But those 2 areas (Boulder and Frisby) see a LOT of traffic.

Maybe your area doesn't really need a club?

What percentage of that traffic on a daily basis is locals?
How many of the non-locals buy a membership versus a day pass?
This proposal by the BCSF could negatively affect the bottom line for some clubs if it becomes cheaper for the non-locals to buy one pass versus day passes all over.
The Cranbrook club has been in operation for over 30 years and without them and their efforts we would have a lot less riding areas due to the greenies closure efforts. To suggest any area doesn't need a club makes me question your commitment\devotion to the furthering of our sport.

 

[lilduke]

What percentage of that traffic on a daily basis is locals? How many of the non-locals buy a membership versus a day pass?This proposal by the BCSF could negatively affect the bottom line for some clubs if it becomes cheaper for the non-locals to buy one pass versus day passes all over.The Cranbrook club has been in operation for over 30 years and without them and their efforts we would have a lot less riding areas due to the greenies closure efforts. To suggest any area doesn't need a club makes me question your commitment\devotion to the furthering of our sport.

99% is out of towners in revelstoke, from my experience small towns in the koots aren't that welcoming to out of towners, some locals can be down right hostile. Where revelstoke is very welcoming to people's cash.Maybe saying you don't need a club was wrong, maybe you just don't need a grooming program?Maybe just focus on keeping area open? Maybe if you lost a couple areas more locals would get involved?Why should a place like Revy that has 1000's of sledder a week subsidize a grooming program for a couple dozen locals?Just a thought, sure you won't like it but that's fine.

 

[Lococoin]

I'm only stuck on it because it keeps getting suggested. When I started this thread I was looking for comments on the current proposal. The current proposal doesn't include things like this because the BCSF know we can't do it. If we violate the terms of our management agreements, and then lose them, we lose the right to collect any money at all. Sorry, but that's the way it is. We have to work within the rules.

What about giving information about who the BCSF is, why it is important, and why having a strong voice is what is needed for the future of the sport. This could be mentioned where people buy their trail passes and if there was the option to buy a BCSF membership right there, perhaps a bunch of people would buy in. That way it's not a forced membership, which is against the rules.

I'd bet a lot of riders have no idea that the BCSF even exists.

 

[moyiesledhead]

What about giving information about who the BCSF is, why it is important, and why having a strong voice is what is needed for the future of the sport. This could be mentioned where people buy their trail passes and if there was the option to buy a BCSF membership right there, perhaps a bunch of people would buy in. That way it's not a forced membership, which is against the rules.

I'd bet a lot of riders have no idea that the BCSF even exists.

We do that at the trailhead, but you're right. A lot of riders have no idea.......till the closure signs go up......then it's my fault.

 

[rightsideup]

Occasioanal users would still have the option of just buying a day pass instead of a provincial membership. Day passes don't go away with this proposal.

Yes and as far as I know an increase in the price of the day pass is only been brought up here,

 

[skegpro]

What about giving information about who the BCSF is, why it is important, and why having a strong voice is what is needed for the future of the sport. This could be mentioned where people buy their trail passes and if there was the option to buy a BCSF membership right there, perhaps a bunch of people would buy in. That way it's not a forced membership, which is against the rules.

I'd bet a lot of riders have no idea that the BCSF even exists.

Bingo, I have never even heard of the BCSF before I joined snow and mud.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[moyiesledhead]

Yes and as far as I know an increase in the price of the day pass is only been brought up here,

Day pass increases have to be approved by the government under our management agreements. Hard for some clubs to justify an increase when they're building cabins with money that is only supposed to go to trail maintenance. Like I said in a previous post, government is starting to look at this.

 

[skegpro]

Day pass increases have to be approved by the government under our management agreements. Hard for some clubs to justify an increase when they're building cabins with money that is only supposed to go to trail maintenance. Like I said in a previous post, government is starting to look at this.

So basically your telling us that your hands are tied and we're essentially ****ed, there are no options?

Has anyone approached the government about adding $3.75 to the trail pass for the BCSF?
Did they say no?

Set up a collection can at the trail head and ask people if they would like to donate to the BCSF and I bet you would collect the odd 5 dollar bill.

The end is near.

 

[moyiesledhead]

So basically your telling us that your hands are tied and we're essentially ****ed, there are no options?

No. That's one of the things the proposal for a provincial membership is trying to address. If the money is collected as memberships rather than trail passes, and re-allocated back to the clubs by the BCSF, then the narrow rules governing what the money can be used for "theoretically" don't apply. That's the idea anyway. As I said at the very beginning, it will unfortunately kill some small clubs and negatively effect the income of some larger clubs. I personally don't like it, but that's just one old guys opinion.

 

[rightsideup]

Day pass increases have to be approved by the government under our management agreements. Hard for some clubs to justify an increase when they're building cabins with money that is only supposed to go to trail maintenance. Like I said in a previous post, government is starting to look at this.

yes there is a process and proof has to be supplied for a increase all of our cabin maintenance is volunteer and the latest new cabin was funded by sponsors for material and volunteer labor

 

[catinthehat]

99% is out of towners in revelstoke, from my experience small towns in the koots aren't that welcoming to out of towners, some locals can be down right hostile. Where revelstoke is very welcoming to people's cash.Maybe saying you don't need a club was wrong, maybe you just don't need a grooming program?Maybe just focus on keeping area open? Maybe if you lost a couple areas more locals would get involved?Why should a place like Revy that has 1000's of sledder a week subsidize a grooming program for a couple dozen locals?Just a thought, sure you won't like it but that's fine.

You are absolutely right about the big clubs subsidizing smaller ones, that is the downside to this proposal from the big club perspective. I don't know who first proposed a provincial pass but I am sure it was never done with that in mind, more likely in an effort to increase the overall membership numbers for when BCSF reps deal with government on our behalf.

 

[lilduke]

You are absolutely right about the big clubs subsidizing smaller ones, that is the downside to this proposal from the big club perspective. I don't know who first proposed a provincial pass but I am sure it was never done with that in mind, more likely in an effort to increase the overall membership numbers for when BCSF reps deal with government on our behalf.

Just an idea here, why not move to a FREE BCSF membership that you can sign up for when you buy your trail pass?
Move to a donation type setup. The girls working the trail booths already take a ton of chit over the 25$ trail pass in Revelstoke.

If #'s is what we need, thats a way of getting them.