BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

ferniesnow · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
Hmmm so say I refused to pay my trail fee.

Does the club have the jurisdiction to not allow me to use the trail up?

For government registered trails they have that jurisdiction and some clubs have that clause written into agreements with some of the private land owners. Saying that, what is the trail pass collector supposed to do? Phone the RCMP over a $20-25 day pass?

It is a big can of worms and discussion is necessary. All the ideas need to be filtered and assessed. I look at the recent process of registering sleds; successful? Hardly. What is the actual percentage of sleds registered in BC? Very low and well below 50%. There are some big issues to be discussed and some forward thinking to get success.

IMHO, legislation is necessary and the government needs to get foot soldiers on the ground (in the field) enforcing that legislation and not sitting as bureaucrats in the fancy-dancy offices.

tex78 · Oct 12, 2016

Lund said:
So i went over my cost last season for sledding in BC in trail passes and membership as i record every ride on my calendar.
This is for ONE sled only.
Hunters Range membership fee $170, 6 rides
Owls head.............................$20, 6 rides
Grey Stokes...........................$20, 3 rides
Revy....................................$20, 4 rides
Eagles..................................$20, 3 rides
Blue lake...............................$20, 2 rides
10K......................................$20, 1 ride
Ice fields...............................$20, 2 rides
Trout lake..............................$20, 1 ride

That is 23 rides with a $20 trail fee for $460 for one sled added to my Hunters primary rider fee of $170.
$630 for me to ride last season, this is not including my wifes fees. So her Hunters membership is $120, otherwise X2 for everything else.

I'm at a point that sledding is becoming too expensive and i'm not the only one that says that. Many are leaving the sport all together because of the cost or not buying into it with memberships. MAJORITY of riders i know ride multiple places. Only a few i know like Tex ride the same place.

Yup trail passes are 25 bucks

Allseasons said:
yes and I see $20 prices, I paid $25 at a few of those places, that were ungroomed I might add

*Edit* I just looked at GSC, probably will join up once they post 2016/2017 passes

sent while drinking tea's

moyiesledhead · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
Hmmm so say I refused to pay my trail fee.

Does the club have the jurisdiction to not allow me to use the trail up?

How about if you are not a BCSF member then you cant buy a trail pass....... but you can still use the riding area?

Club's have the authority to collect trail fees, but not to deny access if you don't pay. How would we exercise it if we did? CO's, BCSF enforcement, and RCMP do though, and we have requested they spend the odd day at the parking lot through the winter to do just that. Only "legal" recourse the club has is small claims court, which isn't going to happen over a $20 day pass.

I'm a bit confused by your second statement. No club can (or would) deny you a trail pass because you're not a BCSF member. As I mentioned before, we're not allowed to do that.

Bnorth · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
The trail pass price should be $25 -30 or whatever is required to run the trail, but you shouldn't even have the privilege to buy one if you don't have a BCSF membership.
We need to do a better job of funding our lobby group. Cause the huggers have huge dollars behind them.

I agree. Have club memberships for guys that ride one area or want to support one main area and then they pay trail pass fees to other clubs when travelling to ride. For guys that just pay trail pass fees have a mandatory BCSF membership first and then just pay trail passes for the rest of the season wherever they please.

moyiesledhead · Oct 12, 2016

Bnorth said:
I agree. Have club memberships for guys that ride one area or want to support one main area and then they pay trail pass fees to other clubs when travelling to ride. For guys that just pay trail pass fees have a mandatory BCSF membership first and then just pay trail passes for the rest of the season wherever they please.

Again.......making a BCSF membership mandatory to ride on crown land would be illegal. We can't go there.

Bnorth · Oct 12, 2016

moyiesledhead said:
Again.......making a BCSF membership mandatory to ride on crown land would be illegal. We can't go there.

It's not mandatory to ride, it's mandatory to purchase a trail pass. Honest people continue to be honest and dishonest continue to be dicks.

snowcannon · Oct 12, 2016

Bnorth said:
It's not mandatory to ride, it's mandatory to purchase a trail pass. Honest people continue to be honest and dishonest continue to be dicks.

How much is BCSF membership?

Bnorth · Oct 12, 2016

snowcannon said:
How much is BCSF membership?

I think it's currently $30 rolled into a club membership but not 100% on that

ferniesnow · Oct 12, 2016

snowcannon said:
How much is BCSF membership?

Unless there was an increase this year, it is $26.50 which is deducted off the club fee.

My whole take on this is what is going to happen to all the cheaters (the riders that by-pass the collection spots. There will be more and more of them due to the expense of a membership. If this is a push to get more registered members in the province it isn't going to fly nor accomplish the goal. Do people really think that members that are now paying $50-80 are all of a sudden going to cough up $150-200 for the same service.

What does Colorado, Idaho, and the other totally mountain sledding areas do? I don't think following in the path of other provinces is the best alternative due to the difference in riding areas. Discussion is good, keep the ideas flowing and hopefully someone from the BCSF will monitor this site.

skegpro · Oct 12, 2016

moyiesledhead said:
Again.......making a BCSF membership mandatory to ride on crown land would be illegal. We can't go there.

You seem to be stuck on this.

Can the law be changed?
(And where can one read about this law)

What do you suggest needs to happen then if all our suggestions are illegal......?

skegpro · Oct 12, 2016

ferniesnow said:
Unless there was an increase this year, it is $26.50 which is deducted off the club fee.

My whole take on this is what is going to happen to all the cheaters (the riders that by-pass the collection spots. There will be more and more of them due to the expense of a membership. If this is a push to get more registered members in the province it isn't going to fly nor accomplish the goal. Do people really think that members that are now paying $50-80 are all of a sudden going to cough up $150-200 for the same service.

What does Colorado, Idaho, and the other totally mountain sledding areas do? I don't think following in the path of other provinces is the best alternative due to the difference in riding areas. Discussion is good, keep the ideas flowing and hopefully someone from the BCSF will monitor this site.

I am afraid this will be the demise of mountain sledding if we can't get our **** together.

Allseasons · Oct 12, 2016

Sadly your right. I wouldn't cheat, just wouldn't go or find an alternative. And probably do what we did back when I started sledding back in the 90's, jump on quad, scout and hike, hand slash a line to alpine for my own playground. So I guess cheat. Realistically, I'm in 40's now, to lazy for that.

My gun club membership went from $75 plus $25 per kid, to $150 plus 100 per kid and $25 for a buddies day pass(think that's legit). And most nice fair weather weekends have events going on so range time is limited when takin kids out. So I'm no longer a member, shoot skeet on my own land with family and friends. Large bore shots on neighbors land.

A a guy like me has far too many hobbies, and kids in hunting and hockey. Maybe I spread myself to thin, maybe I like to take a little bit of everything in. But at some point when cost doesn't equal the time or enjoyment I get out of it, I'm out. Such as why I don't have a river boat anymore. Insurance, registration, deisel for tow vehicle, food, and $200/day gas for 20 possible Boating days per season. Not for a family of 5

doubt I'm alone.

*Edit*. A reasonable increase, $50 for membership and 20-25 a day I'm in

Lund · Oct 12, 2016

I really don't believe that this mongering about people avoiding the trail pass is as big of an issue as being made here.
I believe that the ones that are most likely to go around to avoid paying are more local's and riders that believe they own the place. With the attitude that its their right cause they live there.
Out of town riders and tourist are the least likely to cheat the clubs.
And as for sledders to ride else where, no law saying they can't but its not the jewels of the sledding community, that belongs to the clubs and their members.
Many people do exactly that, drop their 20yr sled on a FSR, ride FSR and clear cuts and thats works for them. Most of these guys run unregistered sleds and don't give a rat's arse about membership's clubs and snowmobile forums.
How i know this?
SAR's get very few call's to organized sledding areas such as Revy/Sicamous in comparison to the unknown mountain on the out skirt of town. Finding these people and rescuing them and seeing the situation's. You will never get some of them to pay a user fee or join a club. You would have to outlaw sledding on crown otherwise.

takethebounce · Oct 12, 2016

ferniesnow said:
Unless there was an increase this year, it is $26.50 which is deducted off the club fee.

My whole take on this is what is going to happen to all the cheaters (the riders that by-pass the collection spots. There will be more and more of them due to the expense of a membership. If this is a push to get more registered members in the province it isn't going to fly nor accomplish the goal. Do people really think that members that are now paying $50-80 are all of a sudden going to cough up $150-200 for the same service.

What does Colorado, Idaho, and the other totally mountain sledding areas do? I don't think following in the path of other provinces is the best alternative due to the difference in riding areas. Discussion is good, keep the ideas flowing and hopefully someone from the BCSF will monitor this site.

My Montana Non Resident permit is $25.(us) Here is a blurb from their site

[FONT=&quot]The Montana Snowmobile Program provides grant funding to support snowmobile trail grooming and education so enthusiasts can ride safely in Montana. Montana State Parks administers the snowmobile program and its 4,000 miles of trails.

[/FONT]My Idaho non resident permit is $32.50 (us) Here is how they break down those reg[FONT=&quot]istration fees and the printing costs of registration sticker:[/FONT]
How is your certificate of number fee broken down?

$1.50 vendor fee
$1.00 snowmobile related Search and Rescue efforts
85% goes to the county operated snowmobile grooming programs
Up to 15% goes to administration fees and the printing costs of registration stickers.

These areas have a huge amount of users. They are grooming 24/7. It is all State run and they treat it like an industry. It brings in huge revenue for the state and towns.

Allseasons · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
I am afraid this will be the demise of mountain sledding if we can't get our **** together.

I believe every organization needs to get together. I'm thinking about every hobby I have. Random camp, shoot, hunt, fish, quad trails and sled. I'm a Do-er. Do it All. As most people on this website are the same. It is very expensive to do all. EVERY DAMN THING I LOVE SOMEONE IS TRYING TO STOP ME. Every hobby wants money to protect what we have. Holy crap.

And the people trying to stop us, do nothing. They are well financed because they do nothing but fight and Bi*ch and try to stop me.

So the only way to win is All sports bind together. But each sport standing alone is retarded and never will go away.

That's why you will never get full buy in. People just can't afford all the fees, and the fights and the costs of the hobbies, doing and the getting there.

And be then we empower civil servants by inviting them out, please fine these few non complyers, and better yet write legislation for us cause our sport is a mess. Bloody hell

ferniesnow · Oct 12, 2016

Lund said:
I really don't believe that this mongering about people avoiding the trail pass is as big of an issue as being made here.
I believe that the ones that are most likely to go around to avoid paying are more local's and riders that believe they own the place. With the attitude that its their right cause they live there.
Out of town riders and tourist are the least likely to cheat the clubs.
And as for sledders to ride else where, no law saying they can't but its not the jewels of the sledding community, that belongs to the clubs and their members.
Many people do exactly that, drop their 20yr sled on a FSR, ride FSR and clear cuts and thats works for them. Most of these guys run unregistered sleds and don't give a rat's arse about membership's clubs and snowmobile forums.
How i know this?
SAR's get very few call's to organized sledding areas such as Revy/Sicamous in comparison to the unknown mountain on the out skirt of town. Finding these people and rescuing them and seeing the situation's. You will never get some of them to pay a user fee or join a club. You would have to outlaw sledding on crown otherwise.

Well Mike it is happening now in the eastern Koots and it is only going to get worse with these increased charges. I have said it before, the biggest problem is the "locals" thinking it is their right to ride free of charge. They are the dickheads but it is also the ones who can access the terrain without paying that will be an increasing problem. There are no vendors at the staging areas and it is a free for all. Every riding area is different with unique access problems.

lilduke · Oct 12, 2016

Riding unmaintained areas isn't cheating the club, a lot of locals just don't want to ride a mountain with 300 tourists.

Locals also do the bulk of the work; most people can't even be bothered with dragging their empty beer cans off the mountain.

tex78 · Oct 12, 2016

lilduke said:
Riding unmaintained areas isn't cheating the club, a lot of locals just don't want to ride a mountain with 300 tourists.

Locals also do the bulk of the work; most people can't even be bothered with dragging their empty beer cans off the mountain.

Exactly, griffin used to be awesome 5-10 years ago

Now it's too busy, I hate seeing others while riding

That's why I end up riding another of the same areas over and over again, cause no one goes there but us

sent while drinking tea's

lilduke · Oct 12, 2016

tex78 said:
Exactly, griffin used to be awesome 5-10 years ago

Now it's too busy, I hate seeing others while riding

That's why I end up riding another of the same areas over and over again, cause no one goes there but us

sent while drinking tea's

The club needs to start grooming Griffen and or Sale. Too much pressure on Boulder and Frisby.
That's another thread though.

Lund · Oct 12, 2016

lilduke said:
Riding unmaintained areas isn't cheating the club, a lot of locals just don't want to ride a mountain with 300 tourists.

Locals also do the bulk of the work; most people can't even be bothered with dragging their empty beer cans off the mountain.

I disagree, if your going to ride in a clubs designated venue. You need to pay your share. And as to do the bulk of the work BS. Its always the same dudes that do ALL the work and generally that accounts for a very few in comparison to membership numbers of the club. BEEN THERE DONE THAT and thing haven't changed.

BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

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