Rewind Starter Problem

[Giver800]

Hey guys I got 08 summit 800R I'm wondering if anyone has seen the issue that I am having and if they have any input as to why this is happening. The first picture is my pawl that was worn out so I installed a whole new pawl kit as you can see in the same picture beside the worn out one.



And here is the result after going for a short ride down the road.......








I did also replace the spring as well. So before I go spend hundreds on a new recoil and install it, I'm curious if I installed something wrong or if it has to do something with my sled?

 

[Summitric]

Something was installed incorrectly I suspect.... Replace the unit, instead of trying to piece it together and you will be good to go. Double check the driven hub doesn't have pieces stuck to it and maybe check the crank runout, in case there there is too much side movement in the crank causing this damage


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[Mantis]

Really check to see where all the parts are.. The retainer clip usually breaks up and can take out your stator..$$$$... Been down this road and $170.00 for a new one is worth it!

 

[Giver800]

Yeah I plan on replacing the whole thing now cause its all toast except for the spring lol. I made sure to piece it together the way it came apart the only difference or screw up I can think of is that I did not add more grease like ski-doo recommends could that have caused the failure? The hub appears to be in good shape but I will double check it and clean it out good.

Also I forgot to mention that I think the original pawl may have got worn out from my last ride when the knot in the pull rope let go and got sucked into the rewind starter so I'm wondering if it may have got stuck then when I started it with the emergency pull rope it took a chunk of the pawl out?

I just want to be sure before I put a new starter on it so I don't wreck that one too.

I may have to check the run out too. Do you happen to know where a can get a decent gauge from to measure the run out?

 

[X-Treme]

Any dial indicator will work. Even a cheapy from Princess Auto should do the trick.

 

[Giver800]

Really check to see where all the parts are.. The retainer clip usually breaks up and can take out your stator..$$$$... Been down this road and $170.00 for a new one is worth it!

The retainer clip is actually completely intact and did not get in behind the stator it stayed on the outer part on whats left of the pawl, just all the plastic pieces and the rubber o-ring melted and shredded. I will triple check to get all the bits and pieces out and I already vacuumed it out but will make sure I get it all out of there.

 

[Giver800]

Any dial indicator will work. Even a cheapy from Princess Auto should do the trick.

Okay thanks X-Treme.

 

[SUMMIT TREE]

not sure why it appears to have exploded,my guess is an issue with the centre post and how the push nut clips on it. either post was damaged and broke,or was too worn for the push nut to grip and it came off.
also there appears to be a lot of grease or copper coat in there,it should be assembled dry,or with very minimal lube and only on correct parts.

 

[Giver800]

not sure why it appears to have exploded,my guess is an issue with the centre post and how the push nut clips on it. either post was damaged and broke,or was too worn for the push nut to grip and it came off.
also there appears to be a lot of grease or copper coat in there,it should be assembled dry,or with very minimal lube and only on correct parts.

Interesting point the post did look a little worn now that I think of it, but it wasn't broken. I did assemble it dry with no lube what so ever, that copper grease looking stuff is the melted pawl residue.

I got a whole new unit today so I should be good to go now.

 

[floogan]

If you have an aftermarket can make sure you put foil tape on the outside of recoil as the heat that comes off it will melt parts

 

[firstdoo]

I just replaced my buddies pawl and pawl lock. By the looks of the melt down im guessing it could be 1 of 3 problems.
1 - the pawl lock was intalled incorrectly (least likely)
2 - the pawl lock nib was already cracked (reading the post it sounds like you only replaced the pawl and not the lock)
3 - the lock washer was pressed on too tight, thus preventing the spring tension to allow the pawl to go back to the relaxed position after recoil. (MOST LIKELY)
The press on retainer lock washer is only to hold everything onto the post. It is not to hold anything down with pressure. When the pawl will not go back to the rest position it would only take 5 full rotations of the crank to melt it down.
I would have no issue rebuilding the one that you have. If you do buy a complete from BRP I would buy a new retainer washer when your at the parts counter, pull the new one apart and remove the grease that is on the pawl and pawl lock. Most causes of ratcheting in cold weather is the cold grease holding the pawl up and in turn causes the pawl to wear on the engagement piece.

 

[Giver800]

I just replaced my buddies pawl and pawl lock. By the looks of the melt down im guessing it could be 1 of 3 problems.
1 - the pawl lock was intalled incorrectly (least likely)
2 - the pawl lock nib was already cracked (reading the post it sounds like you only replaced the pawl and not the lock)
3 - the lock washer was pressed on too tight, thus preventing the spring tension to allow the pawl to go back to the relaxed position after recoil. (MOST LIKELY)
The press on retainer lock washer is only to hold everything onto the post. It is not to hold anything down with pressure. When the pawl will not go back to the rest position it would only take 5 full rotations of the crank to melt it down.
I would have no issue rebuilding the one that you have. If you do buy a complete from BRP I would buy a new retainer washer when your at the parts counter, pull the new one apart and remove the grease that is on the pawl and pawl lock. Most causes of ratcheting in cold weather is the cold grease holding the pawl up and in turn causes the pawl to wear on the engagement piece.

The pawl kit came with a new pawl, pawl lock, o-ring, the sleeve, and lock washer. So by the sounds of it the problem would be that I pressed on the washer too tight cause I did push it as far and as tight as I could.

The one I have is so far gone that its not worth rebuilding imo, the only good parts left on it is the spring, rope and maybe the housing but the post on it is pretty rough now. I bought a new one that is all assembled and ready to be installed from a place in Saskatchewan for a touch over $100 because BRP in Calgary wanted $200. I just haven't got around to installing it yet to try it out.

So if anyone needs a basically new recoil spring, new handle, and or used rope let me know.

 

[BRP QSC]

cant you buy a complete recoil. Its smarter than trying to rebuild old parts.. I did for my 08XP and it was not bad for pricing and it was a easy R&R with no problems

Rich

 

[everest8]

Doo's recoils are garbage |! Replaced many over the years. Now my 08 xp has electric start, recoil emergency use instead off puling on the primary. However...I have gone through 2 bendix at $180 each. Sled has 8000 miles on her. JT"s snowmobile in New Lowell, Ont has prawl kits. 1 800 465 5668 and ships puralator fast.

 

[Giver800]

Rich I did not simply rebuild old parts on the recoil, I bought a kit and a new spring that replaced just about everything on the recoil except for the rope, sheave and housing. As I said earlier in the thread from other guys input I narrowed it down to bad installation on my part which is pushing the washer on to tight which prevented from other pieces moving freely causing it to get jammed in the hub shredding and melting the plastic pieces. At the time the pawl kit and spring ran me about $40 and a whole new recoil from local dealers were quoting me $200 so I figured it was great that I could save a few bucks but that lesson has obviously costed me and I have learned. Since then I did looking around and I have bought a whole new recoil assembly all put together and ready to install from Rec Supply in Saskatoon which ran me about $100. Its installed now and ready to go for me to go ride this weekend!

I agree with everest8 that the stock recoil tend to fail I have seen it on numerous doos where guys pull the rope and it doesn't engage.