News Story: Backcountry Snowmobilers Could Lose Their Rides

[maxwell]

just a thought i had. i have never taken training so do not know how it works. but. could it not be set that anyone who wants to ride mountains has to provide proof of proper training, kinda like a drivers or boat license, in order to be sold a trail pass, or if asked for by enforcement agent. i realize that it wont stop all people from going into dangerous situations and will not prevent them either but it may make some guys more aware of the dangers. also they will have to have someone enforce it but would probably be cheaper than trying to stop everbody from going into the mountains. this guy that is proposing closing these areas down should maybe think about the amount of tourism money he is taking away from these small sledding towns. jmo.

as this is how it SHOULD work it wouldnt

it would also deter alot of families that want to go for a simple tour.

i know and have witnesses far to many trained people that are absolute idiots on the mountain.

maybe they forgot? dont care? got it so they could say they have it?

but sometimes it takes a close call or worse for someone to actually change how they ride.

i dont have all levels of training but have witnesed some that do have it perform some pretty stupid maneuvers!

as far as enforcement...in strathcona county we have dedicatd officers that patrol on snowmobiles and atvs all year long to the tune of 300,000$ to set up.

soo it wouldnt suprise me if something did happen.

 

[GasCan]

Don't kid yourself. If they pass this type of bill, they will add all kinds of resource money to enforce it, just like other provinces (Ontario OPP and Manitoba RCMP) ride the trails looking for DUI and Sledding infractions. If this idea is left for the government to decide, then count on the fact that they'll enforce it with tickets, fines and seizures to pay their way and finance their cause. Lobby the minister and support your clubs that lobby the local governments. It's a good way for voices to be heard and there's strength in numbers..

 

[Zig Zag]

Let's start the revolt by shoving an unregistered non-restricted firearm up their azzpipe and pull the trigger!!!!

Let the revolt begin:d

 

[hurt'in albertan]

unfortunately i think they will pass this and as taxpayers everyone will on the hook for the enforement side of it so.... let the revolt begin!!! :d

 

[maxwell]

the revolt has sort of already started. by the people who chose to ignore the warnings this season.

 

[ferniesnow]

Rather interesting....there are 23 replies and counting myself there are only 5 from BC.

We have been saying it for years; join a club where you ride to help the big picture. Doesn't matter if it is caribou closures, land management issues with denning bears, goats, sheep, trail management, or avalanche restrictions get involved! Belong to a club and as Depsolvr said, "be proactive".

We, as sledders, are losing more and more riding areas and types of riding and the way some back country users have disregard for private property, the environment, others safety, others rights, there will be more closures and more taken away.

I understand about being bitter with the government but the only way to have a say is for clubs to be heard at the provincial level.

 

[gender bender]

they can have my sled when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!!!!!!!

 

[maxwell]

Rather interesting....there are 23 replies and counting myself there are only 5 from BC.

We have been saying it for years; join a club where you ride to help the big picture. Doesn't matter if it is caribou closures, land management issues with denning bears, goats, sheep, trail management, or avalanche restrictions get involved! Belong to a club and as Depsolvr said, "be proactive".

We, as sledders, are losing more and more riding areas and types of riding and the way some back country users have disregard for private property, the environment, others safety, others rights, there will be more closures and more taken away.

I understand about being bitter with the government but the only way to have a say is for clubs to be heard at the provincial level.

im sure alot of us on here belong to clubs. some of us more than one.

 

[Zig Zag]

Rather interesting....there are 23 replies and counting myself there are only 5 from BC.

We have been saying it for years; join a club where you ride to help the big picture. Doesn't matter if it is caribou closures, land management issues with denning bears, goats, sheep, trail management, or avalanche restrictions get involved! Belong to a club and as Depsolvr said, "be proactive".

We, as sledders, are losing more and more riding areas and types of riding and the way some back country users have disregard for private property, the environment, others safety, others rights, there will be more closures and more taken away.

I understand about being bitter with the government but the only way to have a say is for clubs to be heard at the provincial level.

I am but pretty soon this to will be outlawed as an unsanctioned meeting of avalanche seeking maniacs. I like the AB BC comment though, Look at the stupid media attention given to the avalanche situations this year and all the negative press associated to sleders as a whole and now possibly another opp to screw the public out of some more money. The Govt should enforce laws already in place and add no more nothing illegal happened this winter with avy incidents just unfortunate accidents.:d

 

[Summiteer]

the revolt has sort of already started. by the people who chose to ignore the warnings this season.

And they sure showed the government who's boss.......

 

[growly]

I think it will be a hard law to enforce,or it will be left up to the snow cop to decide if the person was high marking or not. Are you high marking if your trying to get to the top and have to turn down because of a mechanical problem? or are you supposed to bury your machine so your buddy has to come up the hill to rescue your ass? What about down hill skiers? do they have to come down the hill in a straight line,without carving side to side?
All I can say is it amazes me what some people think of when they have there head up there ass.

 

[MtnMaster]

it would be impossible to enforce and EVERY case would end up in court. What about when you have to break a hill down to get over the top to get to another area? Are we now only allowed to climb hills we can make it over first try? Or are we just not allowed to climb ANY hills ever again?
My friends and I NEVER get into "Highmarking Competitions" (it even sounds stupid) but we sure do spend a lot of time trying to get over hills so we can continue on to new areas. May look like a "competition" to someone who has no idea what they're doing.

I guess the courthouse will be our new hangout. Internet forums may disappear, we can all just chat while waiting for our case to come up

 

[Modman]

There has to be a definition for highmarking before you can say "that guy was highmarking". What is highmarking? What angle of slope? What snow conditions? What avy rating? Is the ticket null and void if you have previously dug a snow pit and determined that the snow was stable? How far up a slope do you actually have to be before you are deemed "highmarking"? What types of terrain will actually be considered "highmarking terrain"? Is highmarking purely recreational? What if you are trying to climb the slope to actually get over the top and continue past the area? Would this still qualify as highmarking or simply climbing? etc etc. As growly pointed out, what happens to skiers? They darn well better be ticketed as well if they are skiing down terrain that we would ticketed for going up.

Just like the definition for "impaired driving", there are various interpretations of the law. In order for someone to hand you a ticket for "highmarking", there has to be an accepted definition of what the term is. Speeding is a great example of the opposite end of the spectrum where a defined # is the term - the speed limit is the law; no interpretation necessary. You're either over it or under it. While most cops are reasonable about it if you are within say 10% over the speed limit, technically they can issue a citation to you for even 1 km/hr over.

At any rate, the article is a good scare tactic to hopefully smarten people up into assessing the risk and making better judgement calls. Also, it may force sledders to educate and police ourselves a little more on the hills, to avoid the regulatory backlash (to other sledders poor decisions) that is now looming ever closer. I see this as a way to wedge a foot in the door for future possible negligence charges if this law was actually passed (not that I think it will). This is a ploy to win voter recognition with a "majority rules" mentality, by a narrow minded individual IMO.

As sledders though, we need to fight back on this, by more than just clubs at the local level (no offence ferniesnow). I have been a part of 2-3 clubs for many years, but yet I haven't seen them take their fight to the provincial level. Most are busy enough trying to fight closures in their own areas, let alone have the resources and manpower to take on things at the provincial scale. I thought this is why we bought BCSF/ASA memberships? As the blanket sledding representative bodies - why do not the BCSF and ASA not have a rebuttal to these comments? I'm not condemning them, just wondering why.

 

[rknight111]

Sorry modman, there was some flaming starting up and I deleted a few posts. The flaming was between members and let's keep on topic here. Yours might of been in the middle.

Otherwise I myself don't think this would become reality. I think the press mabie took someone from up the political chain and asked them what they thought. This would be impossible to police, and would indeed waste more money with lawsuits back and forth. If they took my sled away they would have to store it and could not sell it untill I'm proven guilty. And that could be over a year. The costs would have to be absorbed my the government again. I think the best solution is Avalanche training and awareness, that is the only thing that will make things better. Making people get registration and insurance in the mountains will not change anything except for a little more money for the government. I always have insurance on my rides anyway.

 

[Modman]

Sorry modman, there was some flaming starting up and I deleted a few posts. The flaming was between members and let's keep on topic here. Yours might of been in the middle.

LOL - no worries Ron. Flaming on the internet......who would have thought that would ever happen hey? :d

 

[fargineyesore]

Rather interesting....there are 23 replies and counting myself there are only 5 from BC.

We have been saying it for years; join a club where you ride to help the big picture. Doesn't matter if it is caribou closures, land management issues with denning bears, goats, sheep, trail management, or avalanche restrictions get involved! Belong to a club and as Depsolvr said, "be proactive".

We, as sledders, are losing more and more riding areas and types of riding and the way some back country users have disregard for private property, the environment, others safety, others rights, there will be more closures and more taken away.

I understand about being bitter with the government but the only way to have a say is for clubs to be heard at the provincial level.

You don't have to belong to a club to make your voice heard to government. Clubs aren't the be all and end all of recreational riding as some seem to think. There are people out there that don't believe in clubs and refuse to join because some (not all mind you) clubs just seem to think they are there to police the backcountry and make a bunch of rules. If someone wants to join a club, fine, but if others don't, they shouldn't be ridiculed. Not all non-club members go around breaking the rules and riding in closed areas. There are people that don't believe the government has the right to be closing public land and choose to ride there because of that. I'm not saying they are doing the right thing, but I think saying they are the reason for these closures is not accurate either. The government started the closures, and they continue despite the best efforts of the local clubs. I do agree with Modman's comments though, where is the BCSF in all this? They sure didn't help the McBride Club, even though they were asked, so what exactly do they do?

 

[buck50]

i see this as a very slippery slope! even if they clearly define what highmarking is, they will always add to that law, like they do now. pretty soon, any hill with 2 or more turn outs on it could be considered "highmarking". and other than being there, how are they gonna enforce this?? maybe have peeps turning each other in to the RC's or the forets service. kinda like if peeps build a jump in a meadow and someone turns them in!!!!! still your word against mine type of situation!

 

[ferniesnow]

What about the uneducated person who is sitting at the bottom of the slope watching? He/she is in a dangerous postion and voluntarily put himself/herself there. Should they be charged?

I think someone said it right, the media asked the question and a politician just had to give a knee jerk response. They are all experts and know everything but yet have never been on a sled nor intend to be on a sled.

 

[retiredpop]

Ahhh-must be summer again. Last year we had Weigele front and center regarding banning snowmobilers from the wilderness. This year we have a new clown.

However, we as a group have to stop giving ammunition to these people. Nowhere is it written that we as snowmobilers have the right to travel anywhere and anytime we feel like just because it is an open area. We have had that privilege up to now and are abusing it and may be in danger of losing it. We have to start using our own heads about what we do out there, not wait for some bureaucrat to tell us what we can and cannot do. We all get our backs up when there is talk about restrictions but they will be imposed if we aren't responsible enough to manage ourselves. I will be mighty upset if I am no longer able to enjoy going out to the mountains and riding with my friends because of someone else's actions. I lost a friend to an avalanche this year and alternate between sadness and being mad at him for doing what he did.

 

[maxwell]

i heard the idea on snowest of appointing someone to be a spokesman for all snowmobilers. someone well known and responsible. mainly alberta and bc. maybe an alliance that every sledder donates to that covers all areas. i dont know just an idea.