General Dirt Bike Maintenance Questions

[synergycycle]

K I have another question...

Think i've pretty much figured out how to change the engine oil in the CRF, now i'm just wondering how to tackle the transmission oil? Where do you fill/drain the gear oil, etc? Also, how often is it recommended to change the tranny oil? I've read up on this online, but i'm still a little confused, getting mixed information so just wanted to see what you folks have to say. Thanks for your help!

??? you engine oil is your transmission oil.

 

[-LadyDirt-]

??? you engine oil is your transmission oil.

Ummm... you sure about that? Somewhere i've read that in the CRF's there's a separate place to drain/fill transmission oil, and that it takes both 10w40 engine oil, and gear oil.....

 

[synergycycle]

Ummm... you sure about that? Somewhere i've read that in the CRF's there's a separate place to drain/fill transmission oil, and that it takes both 10w40 engine oil, and gear oil.....

Realy? on my ktm its just one easy thing.

 

[-LadyDirt-]

Wow! I finally found a manual online..couldn't find one for the life of me when I bought the bike...anyway, I think I found the answer after reading through... I remember reading in the "Dirt Bike Magazine" there was a short little blurb saying "Most common cause of failure in Honda CRF's is that owners fail to realize that there are TWO separate places to drain/fill trans/engine oil".. so that is why I started asking...

 

[steel town]

Realy? on my ktm its just one easy thing.

Dude, Honda's unicam four strokes have engine oil on one side and tranny oil on the other. Compairing your KTM to her honda is like apples to oranges.

She can use a gear box oil for her transmission( I used Bel ray gear saver in my bike)(like you did, or should have done in your CR125) Honda uses an engine oil in the engine side. Honda does this so the tranmission and wet clutch dont contaminate the engine oil, in theory keeping the engine oil cleaner for the engine. It also allows the engine to run a really slipery oil for the top end(Honda reccomends their HP-4m oil with molly in the top end and their gear oil formulated for wet clucthes to the tranny side.
FYI, if you use a full snythetic engine oil in a bike that has a wet cluch the snythetic oil will empregnate your fibre plates and cause them to slip......

 

[-LadyDirt-]

I have Bel-Ray Gear saver for the tranny, and Honda HP-4 10W40 for the engine.. yay, I know how to change the oil(s) now! I can't believe I found a free manual online to print off, it's definitely a UK version or something, spellings off and measurements are different but I converted what I needed to for the oils, should be labelled on the fill caps anyway..

I KNEW there was something different about the Honda CRFs.. glad I went through the trouble to figure out instead of just changing one of the oils..

 

[Shibby!]

FYI, if you use a full snythetic engine oil in a bike that has a wet cluch the snythetic oil will empregnate your fibre plates and cause them to slip......

More quality information from internet sources.

This is not true.

You simply have to be careful of friction modifiers. These are labeled on the bottom of the circle on the oil designation symbol. I've run full synthetics "car oils" in everything from 125 CC dirt bikes to exotic italian supersports all with wet clutches.

 

[Big Jon]

Remind me not to buy your problems. As long as it's motorcycle specific synthetic with the proper JASO label, synthetics are fine, without them, your gambling with your clutch. It may not show up right away, but for those of us that put miles on a bike I'd rather not have to change a clutch more than necessary (approx 80,000 kms for mine).

 

[Shibby!]

Remind me not to buy your problems. As long as it's motorcycle specific synthetic with the proper JASO label, synthetics are fine, without them, your gambling with your clutch. It may not show up right away, but for those of us that put miles on a bike I'd rather not have to change a clutch more than necessary (approx 80,000 kms for mine).

Doesn't have to be motorcycle specific either. JASO is just a label that companies pay to get certified so its known to those buyers who know what the ratings mean.

Rotella T wasn't JASO rated for the longest time yet it had a massive following. Now it's been certified and even more flood to it.

I've put on hundred of thousands of KM's on all sorts of bikes. No issues to date using full synthetics, semi, and good old dino oil. None of which are "motorcycle" specific.

People need to do their own research and stop falling for marketing. You don't need to pay 80$/4liter jug of Motul. In fact I've tried Motul before in my Aprilia and was thoroughly dissapointed. Actually changed it out right away.

I ask you this. When was the last time you heard of legit oil issues on bikes?

 

[takethebounce]

I dunno SteelTown, sounds like you don't know what you are talking about!

Maybe you are used to granny shifting your car so much its rubbed off on your track abilities! haha

 

[steel town]

I dunno SteelTown, sounds like you don't know what you are talking about!

Maybe you are used to granny shifting your car so much its rubbed off on your track abilities! haha

har har har

Some motorcycle specific snyth should /may be fine for a recreational level trail rider:d,I was suggesting to lady dirt to not run a full snythetic motor oil in her tranny because of the seperate oil cavities in her crf, She can run a really good motor oil which you would not be able to do in a KXf/rmz/yzf/or a KickTillMonday:d:d

A few years ago when i was running full snyth motul 10-40 in my 2006 yzf 450 I was experiencing some clutch slippage, I'm not really a clutch abuser on a thumper(my 125 2 stroke is a different story,I beat the clutch on it like a red headded step child). Also keep in mind that this was at a professionally prepped and watered motocross track that had premium traction, and I had brand new dunlop 756's on the bike. Anyhow I took the clutch cover and pressure plate off the bike and mic'd the plates, they were all well with in spec. That day Blackfoot Racing was out at the track doing some testing with Dusty Klatt and Colton Faciotti(perhaps you have heard of them) Long story short, I worked @ B/f for 5 years and know the lead tech Andrew Maclean pretty good(Andrew's riders have like 20 national motocross championship(Jean Sebasitan Roy, Dusty Klatt and Colton on 450's and Dusty, Jimmy Nelson and Tyler Medglia on 250's. Anyhow I asked Andrew about my problem and he asked me what type of oil i was using. I told him and he suggested that I run a semi snythic instead and my cluch slipping problem would should dissaper. I switched oil and surprise,no more slippping.(Andrew will forget more about maintaining dirt bikes that any of use will ever know)

Now,keep in mind I've been racing motocross since 1984, I have owned a
1979 jr 50, 1982 yz 60, 1986 yz 80, 1989 cr 80, 1991 cr80, 1992 cr 125, 1993 cr125, 1994 cr 250, 1995 cr 125, 1997 rm 250, 1997 rm 125, 1998 cr 250, 2002 cr 250, 2003 yz 250 f, 2004 yz 250f, 2005 yz 250 2 stroke, 2005 crf 450, 2006 yz 450, 2009 yz 450, 2009 kx 250f and now a 2004 kx 125 and 2007 kx 250.
I love mostly riding track, I have been a intermedaite level cmrc racer since 1992 and have raced motocross all my life and did lots of hare scrambles and cross country as a kid/teenager with my dad. I have ridden everwhere from Florida, Georgia,Kentucky,Ohio,Michigan, minnisota, wisconsin, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Alberta, B.C, Washington, California and Australia. If any of you guys have ever ridden on a really good track that has really good dirt(Beach sand or black loam) you will realize that the hard paked silty clay here in the calgary area SUCKS, its like Deep powder(loam and sand) to man made icy snow(silty clay) If you only ride trails in the calgary area how good of traction do you thinnk your bike gets, I ride every once in a while out a Mclean and wiaparus and the dirt is either rock hard clay(like ice) or loon ch!t mud, the traction is so crappy that you could not possibly feel minor clutch slippage b/c if your on the gas your just getting wheel spin. On a track with well prepped dirt your sharp edges on your tire's will last countless rides, after 20 min trail riding in our area my rear tire is a rounded of like a beach ball and literally usless on a motocross track.....
So,if you ask me my opinon, you dont need to run a full snythetic, a semi will do just fine cause you should change your oil every ride or 2 on modern four stroker any way, if your running the bike like it was designed to run in the upper rpm range and pinned, youllneed to change it every ride, if you riding super technical single track in 1st and 2nd gear and bogging the ch!t out of your bike I would suggerst riding a 2 stroke,,,,

 

[Shibby!]

har har har

Some motorcycle specific snyth should /may be fine for a recreational level trail rider:d,I was suggesting to lady dirt to not run a full snythetic motor oil in her tranny because of the seperate oil cavities in her crf, She can run a really good motor oil which you would not be able to do in a KXf/rmz/yzf/or a KickTillMonday:d:d

A few years ago when i was running full snyth motul 10-40 in my 2006 yzf 450 I was experiencing some clutch slippage, I'm not really a clutch abuser on a thumper(my 125 2 stroke is a different story,I beat the clutch on it like a red headded step child). Also keep in mind that this was at a professionally prepped and watered motocross track that had premium traction, and I had brand new dunlop 756's on the bike. Anyhow I took the clutch cover and pressure plate off the bike and mic'd the plates, they were all well with in spec. That day Blackfoot Racing was out at the track doing some testing with Dusty Klatt and Colton Faciotti(perhaps you have heard of them) Long story short, I worked @ B/f for 5 years and know the lead tech Andrew Maclean pretty good(Andrew's riders have like 20 national motocross championship(Jean Sebasitan Roy, Dusty Klatt and Colton on 450's and Dusty, Jimmy Nelson and Tyler Medglia on 250's. Anyhow I asked Andrew about my problem and he asked me what type of oil i was using. I told him and he suggested that I run a semi snythic instead and my cluch slipping problem would should dissaper. I switched oil and surprise,no more slippping.(Andrew will forget more about maintaining dirt bikes that any of use will ever know)

Now,keep in mind I've been racing motocross since 1984, I have owned a
1979 jr 50, 1982 yz 60, 1986 yz 80, 1989 cr 80, 1991 cr80, 1992 cr 125, 1993 cr125, 1994 cr 250, 1995 cr 125, 1997 rm 250, 1997 rm 125, 1998 cr 250, 2002 cr 250, 2003 yz 250 f, 2004 yz 250f, 2005 yz 250 2 stroke, 2005 crf 450, 2006 yz 450, 2009 yz 450, 2009 kx 250f and now a 2004 kx 125 and 2007 kx 250.
I love mostly riding track, I have been a intermedaite level cmrc racer since 1992 and have raced motocross all my life and did lots of hare scrambles and cross country as a kid/teenager with my dad. I have ridden everwhere from Florida, Georgia,Kentucky,Ohio,Michigan, minnisota, wisconsin, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Alberta, B.C, Washington, California and Australia. If any of you guys have ever ridden on a really good track that has really good dirt(Beach sand or black loam) you will realize that the hard paked silty clay here in the calgary area SUCKS, its like Deep powder(loam and sand) to man made icy snow(silty clay) If you only ride trails in the calgary area how good of traction do you thinnk your bike gets, I ride every once in a while out a Mclean and wiaparus and the dirt is either rock hard clay(like ice) or loon ch!t mud, the traction is so crappy that you could not possibly feel minor clutch slippage b/c if your on the gas your just getting wheel spin. On a track with well prepped dirt your sharp edges on your tire's will last countless rides, after 20 min trail riding in our area my rear tire is a rounded of like a beach ball and literally usless on a motocross track.....
So,if you ask me my opinon, you dont need to run a full snythetic, a semi will do just fine cause you should change your oil every ride or 2 on modern four stroker any way, if your running the bike like it was designed to run in the upper rpm range and pinned, youllneed to change it every ride, if you riding super technical single track in 1st and 2nd gear and bogging the ch!t out of your bike I would suggerst riding a 2 stroke,,,,

All that talk and you said you only had one problem with one brand of oil.... A particular brand that I swear puts more into marketing and dealership hype then any other, and less into product design. I'm not a huge follower of Motul products. I only use Motul 800 in my KTM because I've jetted it that way and bought a 4litre jug because Canada is the shits for getting quality oils. All the dealerships bring in the same crap forcing us to buy it at stupidly elevated prices. (Motul 800 used to be 12$/liter like 3 years ago, it's now $22)

I know you were trying to hype up your answer but once again, you didn't really prove your point. In fact, you were able to fix it with simply a switch of oil?

How many teams use Rotella T? Everything from MX, to Dakar, to Baja racers. It's 19$/jug and was only recentlly given wet clutch designation rating.

Another mention was Motorex. Everybody swore buy it while KTM was paid to recommend it and was sponsored by them. Since that has changed I'm sure sales have dropped. Nothing special with their oil either.

My point is, you don't need to follow the marketing hype of "motorcycle" only oil, nor is it a simple bland answer of all synthetic oil will make your clutch slip at any level of riding/racing.

 

[steel town]

YO Shibby
I run Honda HP2 at 32:1 and pay full retail for it at a dealership that I hate, so I'm not swinging off Motuls nuts, cause I can get it for cost or I if blew the rep free. I've been running the same pr mix in my 2 strokes for 20 years... and have never had a lubrication failure( i'll stick to what works for me). As for motul or any other full snythic oil run what ever the hell you want, I can only reccomend things that I have experianced in real life and have been reccomended to by without a doubt one of the best dirt bike mechanics in Cananda. Oil is like religion, Bob is a Jew, Steve is a Christian, who cares, preach and pray to whom every you want.
Lets get back on track and help this young lady maintian her dirt bike. I'm not making stupid reccomadations on here, like using a power washer to wash my chain or lubbing my chain while the bike is running on a stand or armouralling the seat for christs sakes. I have been riding for 30 years and have sold thousands of bikes, I think I may have some good advice....

 

[Shibby!]

YO Shibby
I run Honda HP2 at 32:1 and pay full retail for it at a dealership that I hate, so I'm not swinging off Motuls nuts, cause I can get it for cost or I if blew the rep free. I've been running the same pr mix in my 2 strokes for 20 years... and have never had a lubrication failure( i'll stick to what works for me). As for motul or any other full snythic oil run what ever the hell you want, I can only reccomend things that I have experianced in real life and have been reccomended to by without a doubt one of the best dirt bike mechanics in Cananda. Oil is like religion, Bob is a Jew, Steve is a Christian, who cares, preach and pray to whom every you want.
Lets get back on track and help this young lady maintian her dirt bike. I'm not making stupid reccomadations on here, like using a power washer to wash my chain or lubbing my chain while the bike is running on a stand or armouralling the seat for christs sakes. I have been riding for 30 years and have sold thousands of bikes, I think I may have some good advice....

Fine,


We'll agree to dissagree. Just don't back the guy who wants armouralled seats.

 

[Slamnek]

I like Amsoil

 

[TheMuffinMan]

Well I know this is an old topic but I've got a no B.S. answer for ya..lol. If you want to keep your chain from rusting spray it with a heavy coat of WD-40 immediately after you wash it. It's in the name..WD=Water Displacement. If you have a can of chain wax but it where it belongs...in the garbage. It does a fine job of coating the chain but it does not penetrate the rollers well at all, causing premature wear. There are lots of good chain lubes out there, just be sure to apply it well in advance of riding so it has time to tack up and not fling off the chain.

As far as the oil in your CRF goes...my wife has the same bike and I've got the CRF250, I've had great success running Honda HP4M in the engine side and Redline superlight shockproof gear oil in the transmission side. By great success I mean 4 seasons of racing on the same top end and I'm still running the clutch plates that came with the bike out of the crate...still in spec. The HP4M is easy enough to find and you can get the redline gear oil at NAPA if they don't have it in stock they can order it. Redline is expensive $20 a litre but it lasts a very long time, you can go through three engine oil changes before you touch the tranny side...well worth it IMO.

Hope this helps.

 

[-LadyDirt-]

Thanks Muffinman, I am in the habit of lubing the chain after washing, I also use the HP4 for the engine but I use Bel-Ray gear saver and chain lube. I do have the WD-40 as well.


So now that it's almost time to store the bikes figured I'd bring up this topic: Storage. I know MOST of the common tips for storing bikes, but I am just curious to know what everyone else does. I am curious more about the fluids and oils in the bikes... do you drain all of them? Do you leave the coolant in the rad all winter? My bike is not stored in a heated garage so any advice would be great!

 

[Shibby!]

Thanks Muffinman, I am in the habit of lubing the chain after washing, I also use the HP4 for the engine but I use Bel-Ray gear saver and chain lube. I do have the WD-40 as well.


So now that it's almost time to store the bikes figured I'd bring up this topic: Storage. I know MOST of the common tips for storing bikes, but I am just curious to know what everyone else does. I am curious more about the fluids and oils in the bikes... do you drain all of them? Do you leave the coolant in the rad all winter? My bike is not stored in a heated garage so any advice would be great!

Leave coolant. Make sure it's properly mixed to take our temperatures though (50/50). If you have only water in there get it out now and put the proper mix in.


If your oil is fresh leave it in. You could fill it all up, but lets face it. Bikes have short lives. Just leave it if it's not overly used.

Either drain the carbs/tank or put stabilizer in the fuel and run it.

Fog the engine with some engine fog, or put some 2-stroke oil in the spark plug hole and kick the engine over slowly to lube.

WHen doing the final run make sure to get it good and hot so all condensate evaporates. Once cool, plug intake and exhaust. Make sure to check during the winter because animals like foam/cloths/muffler packing, etc. Wouldn't hurt to place a couple moth balls in the intake so your rag doesnt get shreded in your intake... Or use one of those intake washing covers..

Idealy leave the bike on the stand to get the tires off the ground and suspension unloaded. Make sure it's solid ground or it might fall over.

 

[TheMuffinMan]

With 4 strokes it's also a good idea to make sure the engine is at top dead center before you store it so all the valves are closed...prevents the valve seats from corroding. If you do fog the engine for storage you should put in a new spark plug in the spring when you run it again, keep the old one strictly for next winter when you fog it again.

 

[takethebounce]

With 4 strokes it's also a good idea to make sure the engine is at top dead center before you store it so all the valves are closed...prevents the valve seats from corroding. If you do fog the engine for storage you should put in a new spark plug in the spring when you run it again, keep the old one strictly for next winter when you fog it again.

Never even thought of storing it with TDC. thanks