Another shot being fired at sledders in the press
- Thread starter Stompin Tom
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-lenny-
Active VIP Member
I actually came here to share the same article. It is an interesting read, but decidedly anti-sledder (as most are)
Almost as entertaining as the comments left by others.
Accountability, for all, not just one segment, isn't a bad idea though. And you can't deny the fact that sleds have advanced so much that people can get in over their head pretty easy now. I don't know what the answer is to reduce incidents, but the press is pretty one sided. Maybe if liberals liked sledding then it would be acceptable? lol.
Almost as entertaining as the comments left by others.
Accountability, for all, not just one segment, isn't a bad idea though. And you can't deny the fact that sleds have advanced so much that people can get in over their head pretty easy now. I don't know what the answer is to reduce incidents, but the press is pretty one sided. Maybe if liberals liked sledding then it would be acceptable? lol.
- Thread starter
- #3
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
I think what most people dont take into consideration is we hear about the deaths, and they are alarming, but we dont here about about all the non-fatality call outs that search and rescue respond to. I would be interested to hear those numbers.
Nothing is gonna change fellas, it's the same as sport bikes in the summer. You can plop down the cash and buy a big HP bike that is designed for racing with no experience or anything, how many guys die on them each summer? We will always have retards that don't think and don't care.
One way to stop some of the crap is to start charging for SnR calls just like they charge for an ambulance. I realize sometimes stuff happens beyond your control, but these guys dropping down into dumb crap and can't get back out... It's gonna start hitting you where it hurts the most, your wallet.
One way to stop some of the crap is to start charging for SnR calls just like they charge for an ambulance. I realize sometimes stuff happens beyond your control, but these guys dropping down into dumb crap and can't get back out... It's gonna start hitting you where it hurts the most, your wallet.
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I think what bothers me the most about that article is the part that says no emergency responders can get to snowmobilers in the backcountry. That's the way it should be. Many areas are very remote and it needs to be understood that things can go wrong, and you should not be thinking to yourself " its okay if I drop down here because I can use my Satellite phone to call for help". As a group and as individuals we need to be more prepared to fend for ourselves and even spend a night if need be. THEN, if the only option is for SnR so be it. The service they provide is taken for granted way to often, especially this year.
This is a little off topic, however the mindset needs to change IMO
This is a little off topic, however the mindset needs to change IMO
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
There have been tons of callouts for lost/can't get out of a drainage sledders this year. I think it is or is approaching a record year for Shuswap SAR.
Hard to argue anything in the article.
People continue to ignore any consequences or are completely oblivious to them.
What happens if there are more deaths in the backcountry if people decide they won't call knowing it will cost them money?
People continue to ignore any consequences or are completely oblivious to them.
What happens if there are more deaths in the backcountry if people decide they won't call knowing it will cost them money?
Cat401
Active VIP Member
I agree....not much wrong with that article... I think the writer was speaking facts and he was using a rescue worker as his source. The stats are growing with sledding accidents. With todays machines, many people are going into complex areas....some riders are not properly prepared or experienced enough to be in the area they are.
Its a fact that SnR are getting record numbers of calls. The truth hurts but its the truth.
Now the comments that come in after a news article.....most of those are frikken idiots and have no idea....I rarely read that drivel because it has no value except to raise blood pressure
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It would be interesting to do the numbers compairing crotch rockets to sledding. Way easier to die on one of those and society just accepts this just like drownings. Im sure there are far more permanent injuries from bikes than sleds requiring many months of rehab at tax payers expense.
But those sled are really bad ...
But those sled are really bad ...
Just did a quick google search as of August 21 2014 ... 26 motorcyclist died in Ontario alone.
Between 2008 and 2014 175deaths, 7 were passengers.
Thats just Ontario deaths ... how many were farked up ???
Between 2008 and 2014 175deaths, 7 were passengers.
Thats just Ontario deaths ... how many were farked up ???
tex78
Active VIP Member
Too many call outs from guys going places they should not have gone
That's where I still think the government should open it up some for easier guiding..
Would be way less lost, stuck where they should not be, avalanche victims
As local guides would no conditions, we're not to go, where to go if it socks in, and weather -avalanche conditions from the last month
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
What we really need is incident rates. There are far more motorcyclists than sledders but we don't really know how many active mountain sledders there are. Would be interesting to compare western snowmobile fatalities with number of machines registered vs other motorsports. I suspect sledding is one of the most high risk though.
- Thread starter
- #13
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
not really a fair comparison until one can have absolute numbers of riders. How many bikes on the highway in the summer compared to sleds in the mountains in the winter? I would suspect the amount of bikes and miles put on far outnumber the amount of sleds and miles put on. How many times are search and rescue called out for bikes, how many times are they called out for sleds?
Really its very much an apples and oranges comparison.
pano-dude
Active VIP Member
We had a couple s+r calls in our area recently. First one was for a broken leg, some locals came up on a group trying to start a fire with larch.... buddy asked what they were doing and the guy said they were gettng fire started because his pal broke femur. The local rider said wtf, lets get him out its 3pm, offered to use his spot. Buddy said oh i have a sat phone but don't want to use it cause it costs money!
Local spots and s+r mobilizes fly chopper in and gets it done.
Second call was for a group who did not return on time. Local sledders mobilize as well as s+r. They Found the group in one of the cabins, they decided to stay a couple more days but did not let anyone know!
Plain stupidity on both groups.
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- #15
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
Frankly in my opinion they only way things can change is peer pressure and attitude adjustments. Government regulations are far to sweeping and hard to enforce. What can they do, simply shut off the back country? Like cutting off your head because of a nose bleed.
Fatality Facts
In the usa 2014 there were 4295 motorcycle deaths. 323 atv deaths ...
Another artical says 200 snowmobile deaths in north america and 14000 hospital visits ...
In the usa 2014 there were 4295 motorcycle deaths. 323 atv deaths ...
Another artical says 200 snowmobile deaths in north america and 14000 hospital visits ...
Cat401
Active VIP Member
doubt those stats even include Canada....Americans typically think "the USA" is north America...lol ..I looked at there list of member groups and don't see one Canadian Insurance company listed
But, anyways....why are we trying to redirect the story? I think the facts are there....we are seeing more sledding accidents in the back country than ever before....what are we prepared to do about it?
I agree, the article is really not that biased, they are using stats and stat don't lie. I would suspect it would be even worse if a ratio of manhours ridden per accidentSAR callout were used. Just sucks to be us, we earned those stats.
Suggestions are also supplied to help correct the growing trend................training and education programs.
Just like at work people do NOT have common sense until they experience an issue or they are trained.
I will always stand on the soap box and shout education is the answer - just not sure on how you force peps to get educated other than peer presuure or making it mandatory. Drivers licience, isurance, registration, "backcountry training card" please and then the trail pass gets bought. Not sure the right way to force training - at work we kind of apply the same method - no training = no going to work.
Those weekend warriors reinacting the Xgames will always be Darwin candidates - big time on the spot medical support at xgames. You are on your own on the hill.
Maybe a cost to use S&R also based solely by the Local S&R on a case by case review by the rescue team involved. If S&R needs to put theselves at risk because of some one's ill preparedness, stupidity or overindulgence then there should be some financial cost. And for the excuse of "won't call S&R because of the cost"......better have a look at who you are riding with cause that is soley your groups problem to live with, known as accountability - something that is sorrowfully lacking.
We choose to play in what can be a very unforgivving environment - we need to start being held accountable for our decissions. Can you prove due diligence and that all things practicable where in fact taken into account???! When issues occur that could have been prevented there is no one to look at other than yourself.
The sledding community has the ability to steer our sport into a better light for others to see us by.
Just maybe forced training is part of the answer and maybe accountability through cost for our actions is where we start?????
I personnaly am in favor of both.
Better we start fixing it than the dummies doing crosword puzzles while chewing on granola bars.
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LBZ
Active VIP Member
That won't happen although it has been talked about. They are worried people won't call if there is a monetary fee associated with it which may result in fatalities.
Only way I see them being able to recover some costs is by charging a flat rate fee attached to snowmobile registration. But that would raise problems also as what about those that are in the backcountry doing non-motorized sports?
X-it
Active VIP Member
If only we had a few billion dollars so we could get favoured reviews.
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