Snow question

[Sledderglen]

This past weekend we were up to out TCST section. Had good snow but it was very sugary. Slight crust with sugar underneath. Set-up all day and it was still soft on our way out. Drove over it many times. Seemed to not set-up.

How do you groomer operators deal with this type of snow??

 

[old mountain man]

This past weekend we were up to out TCST section. Had good snow but it was very sugary. Slight crust with sugar underneath. Set-up all day and it was still soft on our way out. Drove over it many times. Seemed to not set-up.

How do you groomer operators deal with this type of snow??

I do not think there is much you can do. Having the same problem around Whitecourt. Possibly some colder weather will help?
Very heavy traffic on some of the trails here as well.

 

[roadtech]

Hi Glen
What do you think of this theory, When I start packing in the late fall the snow is approx 3 inches, I pack that , then it snows another bit, and I pack that, etc. etc, it's like making plywood a layer at a time. but when you go out there and try and pack a foot the snow it's crystal snow and rolls like ball bearings. The fact that you distubed the snow should be enough to set it after a day or so. There is a good site on grooming if you google U.S. snowmobile trail grooming, it explains it much better than I could. I think you need a couple of "freeze thaw"cycles to really set up the trails.
Do you know anyone with a Packer?

Don

 

[Sledderglen]

Hi Glen
What do you think of this theory, When I start packing in the late fall the snow is approx 3 inches, I pack that , then it snows another bit, and I pack that, etc. etc, it's like making plywood a layer at a time. but when you go out there and try and pack a foot the snow it's crystal snow and rolls like ball bearings. The fact that you distubed the snow should be enough to set it after a day or so. There is a good site on grooming if you google U.S. snowmobile trail grooming, it explains it much better than I could. I think you need a couple of "freeze thaw"cycles to really set up the trails.
Do you know anyone with a Packer?

Don

Thanks Don. May look for a old plastic culvert to make a packer. Would that be a good idea? Like the one you have. LOL

 

[kjb]

I've never done any grooming but I do understand snow and it's properties. Cold air will kind of dry out the snow (faceting due to a large temp gradient, ground temp to air temp). Turning the snow to a sugary consistency. The bonds between these christals become very week. Warmer air temps will cause the christals to bond together. Mechanically breaking up the christals will help (grooming) especially if there is lots of heat generated by lots of movement (like avalanches do). Those types of christals (sugar) are terrible bonders though.

Destructive metamorphism and constructive metamorphism are directly related to temp gradients. < 1*/ 10cm will cause the christal to facet, grow feather like christals and bond poorly to each other. > 1*/10cm and the chrystals grow together, bond well. Shallow snow packs have a larger temp gradient (ground to air) so they facet (grow sugary) and are usually in colder climates. Deeper snow packs have a smaller temp gradient, which bond well and are usually in milder climates. Rocky mountain snowpacks are more prone to avalanching where as the coastal snowpacks are less prone.
Sorry for rambling on. I would guess a groomer that could chew up the snow more would cause more heat and cause it to bond better. But those christals (facets) are difficult to change without milder temps. Happy grooming!

 

[roadtech]

Hi Glen
You should make you way up here before your packer starter kit grows legs.
Greg was looking to have me make one for him until I told him he could borrow mine.
Glen also go to Groomer Talk and see what one guy thinks of a Ranger for a grooming power unit, very interesting!
Just sayin
Too cold to ride this weekend anyways, ya and we picked up 4 inches if fresh stuff and it's still coming down

Have a good one
Don