Caper11
Active VIP Member
Heres a review for yah.
https://www.snowandmud.com/ski-doo-xm-sleds-616/roosterbuilt-clutch-kit-xm-76251-2.html
Rooster kit
- Thread starter procat801
- Start date
https://www.snowandmud.com/ski-doo-xm-sleds-616/roosterbuilt-clutch-kit-xm-76251-2.html
4dzrule
Active member
I couldn't wait for the GP campaign, went down to see Dean and picked up all his goodies. Now just to get through the break in...
SUMMIT TREE
Active VIP Member
so here is a question i can't quite wrap my head around…..If Im to the bar pulling 8000 rpm on my etec, how does a clutch kit give me more power or track speed? maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but if I'm using all my available horsepower, how does "switching gears" do anything? if it shifts to a lower ratio engine rpm increases but track speed decreases so being 8000 is my max this equals lower track speed. if i increase ratios engine rpm drops and track speed increases. now if i have the hp to bring engine rpm back up to 8000 then i have a higher track speed. So on a stock sled are they clutched in such a way that at full rpm I am not utilizing the full hp of the engine?
maxwell
Active VIP Member
you are correct. this is why you will never see a "clutch kit" sled outclimb a factory sled pulling proper rpm. a clutch kit can only change how the sled reacts. some like strong engine braking, some like a quick holeshot, some like different styles of engine rpm recovery and backshift. other than that there is no extra track speed or "power" cpming from a clutch kit. sure if there are clutching issues on a factory machine you will see gains from a corectly dialed clutch kit. but for instance my 2014 pulls 8000rpm all day long all conditions. i lke how the sled feels. there is no gain in a clutch kit for me. if i was riding a 2008 with serious fading issues maybe a different story.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
LOL the great clutching debate, there are many ways to clutch a sled, what you have to figure out is what you like and expect out of your sled.
Its simple, Gearing up and having clutching that will work with the gearing change will have a result in a slight increase in track speed, maybe 2-3 MPH.
There are many tests you can do on the hill to see if your getting the most out of the setup you have.
pfi572
Active VIP Member
Exactly. !!
In years past the gearing was to high and clutching the chits so lots of belt heat due to slipping.( poor belt life)
Clutch changes and gearing or kit that someone had made a big difference.
Now they gear them so low that the heat is gone and belt life has improved . ( great but performance can be improved )
Now same think as can gear and change clutching and gain again .
For the masses it is great but still performance left on the table .
Just because you pulling 8000 on engine doesn't mean that once it leaves the primary you are getting everything out of it.
Everything has to work together . Gearing , springs ,helix angles, rider weight , Track length, track profile, and so on.
LennyR
Active VIP Member
Nope, as long as my RPM's are at exactly 8000, thats as good as it can get. LOL. No clutch kit guy could ever figure out a better way than stock Doo !!!!!
what the hell you smoking PFI ?? LOL
pfi572
Active VIP Member
Okay T team Lenny Doo maxwell. Lol
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maxwell
Active VIP Member
HEY, everyone has there own opinions about clutching. im speaking about polaris aswell. you think there massive r n d team just left one magic combination off the table that might give them an edge? NOT.
bottom line is no sled has every passed any one i know from a magical clutch kit. and weve fawked with ALOT of clutch kits. you spent 350$ on some magic parts for your clutch. naturally your going to make your self believe its working better. ive been there too its ok. LOL. a clutch kit has its place. when you start modifying your machine for more power etc. then the correct calibration is required from the manufacturer by all means.
chances are...if you have the time to look down at your guage and see 8000...7900...8000...8000...7900...8000...8000...7900...8000...8000...7900...8000...8000...7900...8000...8000...7900...8000...
THEN your riding like a pussy anyways hehehe
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Caper11
Active VIP Member
Skidoo has to come up with a calibration that the general public will be able to use. Keeping in mind that rider weight varies from person to person.
People complained about clicking from the trail to the alpine back in 07-08 and in 09 they released the 441 ramp and the reverse angle helix, and helped with that problem, than people complained about belt life and released the "tractor gearing" straight cut helix, and a very light sec spring. But every action has a equal and opposite reaction! And if a person is looking to make a improvement the right combination of parts can minimize the negative effects to a clutching change, to overall improve the sleds response to throttle input.
To say there is no gain without trying it is a ignorant statement! And not all kits are alike!
The kit and gearing I have suits my riding style and what I expect.
I've let two people ride my sled, I know what their comments were after they came back, and I rode their sleds while they were riding mine, and so I know how different the sleds felt, and now they are running the same kit.
And maxwell I didn't see 7900-8000 rpm fluctuation, on three different sleds not including mine, I was seeing 7900-7200 on load changes, I could hear it in the engine tone while climbing on my 13 and started paying attention to it. When I rode other sleds I noticed it as well.
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People complained about clicking from the trail to the alpine back in 07-08 and in 09 they released the 441 ramp and the reverse angle helix, and helped with that problem, than people complained about belt life and released the "tractor gearing" straight cut helix, and a very light sec spring. But every action has a equal and opposite reaction! And if a person is looking to make a improvement the right combination of parts can minimize the negative effects to a clutching change, to overall improve the sleds response to throttle input.
To say there is no gain without trying it is a ignorant statement! And not all kits are alike!
The kit and gearing I have suits my riding style and what I expect.
I've let two people ride my sled, I know what their comments were after they came back, and I rode their sleds while they were riding mine, and so I know how different the sleds felt, and now they are running the same kit.
And maxwell I didn't see 7900-8000 rpm fluctuation, on three different sleds not including mine, I was seeing 7900-7200 on load changes, I could hear it in the engine tone while climbing on my 13 and started paying attention to it. When I rode other sleds I noticed it as well.
Sent from my iPhone using
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pfi572
Active VIP Member
^^^^^
X2. You sir are 110% correct.
I would guess 90 %don't even understand what the clickers are doing other than it raises the rpm 200.
Lol
X2. You sir are 110% correct.
I would guess 90 %don't even understand what the clickers are doing other than it raises the rpm 200.
Lol
I do... If you want to spend 400$ on a clutch kit go for it...LMAO
pfi572
Active VIP Member
You are in the 10%
Lmao
Lmao
That may be a conservative estimate
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Winter Brew
Active VIP Member
my .02 on the subject..
Yep....for those riding in 3-7000 ft range the stock '12+ clutching works good for most guys. I don't think anyone has ever said otherwise. RPM is fairly consistent since they got away from the reverse angle helix and the durability and tolerance issues they have had in past years. Keep in mind the factory clutching has a part in achieving the decibel and EPA regulation that these sleds have to meet. Perhaps dropping rpm under certain test conditions to meet those standards, although the etec being so clean it has opened up more options for stock clutching.....like getting away from the reverse angle helix that allowed the ptec to meet EPA standards.
There are small gains (or call them changes) to the power delivery or feel....making the power more "useable" for lack of a better term, for many riders. There are some gains to be had at lower shift ratios, mainly from running a progressive helix that loads things harder at low ratios vs the stock 40....stock is snappy but still a bit buzzy at low speeds. I prefer that grunty, linear feel for tree riding.
I get to talk with a lot of xp and xm riders. You might be surprised how many don't like the stock clutching or how many eat belts on a regular basis...it surprises me at times because I don't think stock is terrible and I try to make it clear exactly how our setup is different from stock. I want people to have realistic expectations and many times encourage some guys to stay stock if they are happy with it. Most that do change are more than happy and some see more gains than others....especially the extreme low and high altitude guys that ride outside where the stock calibration works well. At low altitude, If you load up the stock pins to get RPM correct, then you have a lazy backshift and slow rpm recovery (if at all) due to the stock, soft secondary spring. So then guys start messing with secondary springs...then they see too much heat and slow upshift using a stiff spring with the shallow 40...so then they start chasing their tail and trying different helix's. There are many riders who benefit from going with different clutching. Some would rather not spend the $$ on a whole bunch of parts to make it work the way they want, while some guys enjoy clutching and searching for that perfect setup...
Just showing 79-8000 on the tach isn't everything to everyone. Power delivery, feel, engine braking and even small gains in climbing track speed while lessening belt problems are huge to some people....and thats where we do our best to make a customer happy, as I'm sure the other guys that offer their version of how a mountain sled should be clutched.
The vast majority of our customers come from someone who rode with another customer with our setup and got to ride it to compare. If there were no positive traits to be had, Im sure we wouldn't be getting phone calls. The funny thing is, we have been getting as many calls from XM guys wanting a change from the stock clutching as we got in previous years when the clutching was clearly lacking. There is no magical setup that works perfect for every sled and every rider....Ski Doo knew that when they settled on calibration, and we know that with the setups we offer. Its nice to have choices.
pfi572
Active VIP Member
Well said WB
LennyR
Active VIP Member
well i suppose your clutching should be different setup, yours will be designed more for screwing around below the cabin on your 6 favorite treed hummocks, and doing wheelys back and forth in the meadows with no snow flap and stopping regularly to take photos of your sled posed beside each snowy hump you overcome. Some will have different expectations, crazy as it sounds, they may want to venture further afoot try new places and challenges.
Some of those crazy zany buggers, may need a different set up than you. I know, I know, its nuts, but your setup may not be best for everyone. Just saying.
LMAO,
maxwell
Active VIP Member
LennyR
Active VIP Member
Merry Christmas back at you and your family.
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