Line locates

[RXN]

Just wondering if someone knows the ins and outs of this.

I'm guessing I'm partially at fault here.

I needed to do some digging in my yard. I know that the current well is newer and that there was a different well on the property before. But I have no idea where this well was.
I also knew I had to cross my gas line with this trench I was digging.

So I hired a line locate company. As I figured they'd be my best bet to walk the area I'm digging in and let me know if I'm safe to dig.
I even went as far as taking a Google earth shot of my property and marking on that map where I am digging.

I was not home when they showed up to mark lines. And my wife being , well herself. Told the people that showed up she didn't know what I was doing or needed them to do.

I come home yard has yellow stakes for the gas line. Nothing else. Their report Marks out the gas line nothing else. So I assumed we were safe to dig.

Hand dug the around the gas line. They were spot on with their Marks.
Then used a backhoe and dug my trench.
We found we exposed a wire. My neighbor was pretty sure it was 14/2 wire.
Checked my breakers. Nothing tripped. Checked both ends of the broken wire. No power.
Thought maybe that's the old power line to the old well maybe.
Finished our job. Pushed the dirt back in.
That was Aug 8th and 9th.
Aug 27th we go to use the house phone. Dead. No signal. No tone.
So called telus.
They came out today and confirmed I'm good that the pole and at the house and that there is a break in between.

I've called and emailed that line locate company.

I'm just wondering if I can go after them to replace that line? Or if it falls on my shoulders because I wasnt home to walk out the picture I sent them?
I'm currently waiting for telus to send out someone else now to locate that line. So I dig it up as well as my options.

I'm hoping I can just do a section rather than the whole run.
My wife said the tech today advised to go wireless. But I want to get this fixed proper.

 

[Dawizman]

It can be repaired if you have the break opened up for them Ryan.

Realistically, that line should have been located when you put in the Alberta One Call ticket. Did Telus not show up to locate that line? In the end, the excavator is typically responsible to ensure all utility locates are complete, and the area is clear.

Private locators can only find what they know exists in the ground. If there's no evidence of a line being there, there is no real way to sweep for something. They need to induce a signal in the line in order to locate it. The exception would be a power line that is being used. You can typically locate because it will be putting off a signal at 60Hz.

 

[t300]

Confused. The landline worked between aug 9 and the 27? Or you just never tried it?

 

[RXN]

Confused. The landline worked between aug 9 and the 27? Or you just never tried it?

Never tried it.
Only use it to call my Grandfather (its easier for my daughter to hold when she talks to him) and to order movies on the telus satellite box.

 

[RXN]

It can be repaired if you have the break opened up for them Ryan.

Realistically, that line should have been located when you put in the Alberta One Call ticket. Did Telus not show up to locate that line? In the end, the excavator is typically responsible to ensure all utility locates are complete, and the area is clear.

Private locators can only find what they know exists in the ground. If there's no evidence of a line being there, there is no real way to sweep for something. They need to induce a signal in the line in order to locate it. The exception would be a power line that is being used. You can typically locate because it will be putting off a signal at 60Hz.

Yeah. I just used a private firm. As I didnt know what all was there either. I figured I could bring one person out to mark everything rather then wait on different utility providers to come mark their lines

Also I used the neighbors backhoe. So that would fall on me then

 

[Tchetek]

Your on an acreage. That line is likely your property and problem. But it should have been marked by first call as they will make the primary to the property. But not secondaries. Maybe you have there interface box at the pole so they are considering it a secondary.

But regardless it’s not mandatory to have a phone line to your house on an acreage. Save the phone bill and just use cells like you already do.

If you really want a land line get an Ooma box from Costco or something similar and use voice over internet.

Or It’s easy to splice back up if you locate the break. You just match up the colours and use special Grease/wax filled b-connectors and a little junction fitting also filled with the same ooze that keeps the moisture out.

 

[Tchetek]

I didn’t see the post about Not using first call in my above reply. But the rest of the info still stands.

 

[RXN]

Yeah. Most likely I'm just going to splice it back in. As we really don't use it I just want it back.

What Justin said makes sense. That they only look for what they know.
I dont really know how these things are done. It was always black magic to me. I thought I'd give them the area and used some sort of metal detector and sweep the area.

Justin swung by one day with some line locate tools to show Me where my water line was. As I was struggling to get a company to come do that.

So slowly I'm getting a better understanding of how this works
And quite honestly I had no idea where my phone line was either.

I should have just done the free call for all utilities instead of paying one company in Hope's they'd located all buried hazards.

Mis communication I guess.

 

[ABMax24]

See what Telus will do first. The 2 times I've dealt with Telus regarding line locates (1 resulting in a line strike of an above ground cable by an ATCO electric hired snow clearing crew) was that they would rather just come fix a break if it occurs than locate it in the first place. I'm not sure of this is standard procedure or not but was it's what I was told both times. I'm sure they'd locate larger cables especially fiber optic though. Same goes for our water utility, they have no way of locating the residential feeder lines and will just come repair in the event of a strike.

I can't imagine the cost being insurmountable, especially if you expose the break for them.

 

[Tchetek]

Let me know if you find both ends of the line. I’ll give you the stuff to fix it.

If you need a line tracer to find it, they can be rented from the cat rental store (electrical div)

 

[Dawizman]

Yeah, if Telus is going to charge an arm and a leg, I can fix it on my way by next week too. I can give the break for ya too.

 

[RXN]

Thanks guys.

Right now I'm hoping telus will come mark where the break is. I can dig up from there.
I'll probably touch base to make sure I'm getting the correct stuff to repair this line.

Appreciate the help

 

[Jorg Jorgenson]

I work in commercial construction, and typically on private land you need to do both Alberta 1 call and Alberta 2 call. 2 call is for lines on private property that the previous or current owners could have installed on their own. I think phone lines fall under that category, same with irrigation lines. They don’t pick up the same signal as other locates due to line voltage vs low voltage. Something like that anyway.

 

[imdoo'n]

It can be repaired if you have the break opened up for them Ryan.

Realistically, that line should have been located when you put in the Alberta One Call ticket. Did Telus not show up to locate that line? In the end, the excavator is typically responsible to ensure all utility locates are complete, and the area is clear.

Private locators can only find what they know exists in the ground. If there's no evidence of a line being there, there is no real way to sweep for something. They need to induce a signal in the line in order to locate it. The exception would be a power line that is being used. You can typically locate because it will be putting off a signal at 60Hz.

power gives off a signal only when there is power going through the line, as in not switched off at pole or in house etc. i would say get a hold of the locating co, see what they will do. they dropped the ball, although you should have had area for digging marked out, (in my opinion). gas/power/telus/cable /water /sewer are what locators should be looking for at every residential, fibre optics now also. are your telus and power on outside wall of house? have you paid your bill to locating service? sounds like they saw the gas meter hooked on and called it good?

how come the fellow digging the trench(or his spotter) did not see the cable?

For those who are reading this and contemplating installing underground lines, get all your utilities located, eliminates this from happening. keep a copy(drawing) future reference.

also have the locator contact you before he leaves, people forget stuff!

 

[RXN]

power gives off a signal only when there is power going through the line, as in not switched off at pole or in house etc. i would say get a hold of the locating co, see what they will do. they dropped the ball, although you should have had area for digging marked out, (in my opinion). gas/power/telus/cable /water /sewer are what locators should be looking for at every residential, fibre optics now also. are your telus and power on outside wall of house? have you paid your bill to locating service? sounds like they saw the gas meter hooked on and called it good? again this falls on me for not asking the right questions at the time. I showed them a Google maps image of my property and where I wanted to dig. I expected anything under the ground would have been marked. All they marked was my gas line. I assumed good

how come the fellow digging the trench(or his spotter) did not see the cable? so again this falls on me. My neighbor has a small backhoe he was digging I was spotti. Once we cleared the gas line we thought we were clear sailing. As no other lines were marked out by the line locate company

For those who are reading this and contemplating installing underground lines, get all your utilities located, eliminates this from happening. keep a copy(drawing) future reference.

also have the locator contact you before he leaves, people forget stuff!

See in red. Looks like I didnt do my homework. Some good learnings here on what I should have done. Over what i did do.

 

[Lightningmike]

If its got any kind of metal going through it and they can access one end above ground they can usually locate the lines. Lots of plastic or fiberglass in recent years have a tracer wire taped to it and the hook a clamp on one end and can trace it. Older fiberglass and plastic didnt always do this so no way of locating.

If in doubt... call Lightning Hydrovac. Let Lightning "Strike " first!!!

Lol sorry just had to throw that in there.

 

[imdoo'n]

See in red. Looks like I didnt do my homework. Some good learnings here on what I should have done. Over what i did do.

not putting any blame on you or the locator, it's always best to have area marked out, on the ground. Contact the locating co. find out what they did and what they say they were told to do? record the conversation for future reference! ask if they are willing to fix the problem, Calmly!!!!
the area should have been swept for other lines as a minimum! all known utilities should have been accounted for, in my opinion. Lines can be easily missed, due to grounding problems or past building activities and human error. Get your line repaired, if they won't do it. then decide if you want to take it to small claims.
from what you have said, without knowing what the locator says, they may have dropped the ball. high-light the may have!!

 

[imdoo'n]

If its got any kind of metal going through it and they can access one end above ground they can usually locate the lines. Lots of plastic or fiberglass in recent years have a tracer wire taped to it and the hook a clamp on one end and can trace it. Older fiberglass and plastic didnt always do this so no way of locating.

If in doubt... call Lightning Hydrovac. Let Lightning "Strike " first!!!

Lol sorry just had to throw that in there.

what happens if your cable has the end of the line taped up nice n tight, as in not grounded? brand new water lines? gotta love those.

 

[RXN]

not putting any blame on you or the locator, it's always best to have area marked out, on the ground. Contact the locating co. find out what they did and what they say they were told to do? record the conversation for future reference! ask if they are willing to fix the problem, Calmly!!!!
the area should have been swept for other lines as a minimum! all known utilities should have been accounted for, in my opinion. Lines can be easily missed, due to grounding problems or past building activities and human error. Get your line repaired, if they won't do it. then decide if you want to take it to small claims.
from what you have said, without knowing what the locator says, they may have dropped the ball. high-light the may have!!

Still haven't heard from the guys that did the line locate. Most likely its miscommunication.

I thought I was giving them an area and they were checking for everything.
I didnt have time to call them again. Try again Tomorrow. They fix is easy enough.
I just have to find that wire again. Lol

 

[Cyle]

Changes are they will blame the excavator. Deal with terrible locates on a regular basis, they have never taken any responsibility when we've hit a line even though been cleared. A lot depends on your paperwork communicating to them the excavated area if it's their fault or not. Drilled through a 6" water line that a private locate missed, they refused to pay for it, the company we did the work for picked up the tab as we were given paperwork showing in the clear. Gas lines, telus, electrical, everything missed at some point. It doesn't hurt to try but I wouldn't expect you'll get anything out of them. At least it's a very easy to fix line. I think if you pushed a bit, Telus will come fix it for free if it's excavated for them to get at.