Avy Airbags

[Shibby!]

Ok, so I'm sure a lot of people are in the market to buy an airbag. It seems slowly safety is becoming a more mainstream goal in our sport which is a long time coming to the masses.

So, my question is why is there so little information with these devices? I understand Snowpulse has very limited time on the market, and the Float 30 hasn't even been released, however ABS, who's been around for decades has VERY little info. The marketing for these devices is basically non-existent. In turn, you get everybody asking poorly informed people which bag is better. I have gotten every reason under the sun, most of which I write off as B.S.

So what makes one bag better then the rest? What makes them justify their cost? What regulations have to met, and what kind of tests have been to done to get statistics they use? All this info is basically lost on the internet.

I'm a fairly factual guy. I work off raw data. Buying these bags is anything but that. It's more of a question of who you believe and what you are prepared to spend. The only valid info I have heard and got is "anything is better then nothing".

Discuss.

 

[cobbycat]

I made my choice in bags last year simply on the fact that ABS have been around for 20ish years. they have the most experience so I bought one of theirs. has anyone even deployed one of the other bags in an actual avy? just hit me that I haven't heard of one, has anyone?

p.s. just having one is more important than which one to buy IMHO.

 

[Shibby!]

I made my choice in bags last year simply on the fact that ABS have been around for 20ish years. they have the most experience so I bought one of theirs. has anyone even deployed one of the other bags in an actual avy? just hit me that I haven't heard of one, has anyone?

p.s. just having one is more important than which one to buy IMHO.

And I agree with your last statement.

I've "heard" that snowpulse has made some false statements about their bags and have had patents pulled. Pulled patents are so-so, because if you can't beat them might as well join them =). They just got caught.

So, this leads me to the BCA Float 30, or ABS. I'm in agreement with you that the history behind ABS is a big bonus. Their bags also seem to be well constructed. The downside? Obviously the price. These things aren't rocket science. I'd be sad to hear the Float 30's working well and my $1300 invesment is now worth $300 or the price of the used BCA. Then again, I don't think I should be using my normal way of thinking with this investment. It should be more of a "how much do I value my life" and am I (or others) willing to risk even the slightest chance using a bag without much testing or history. Lots of people will say "Hell yea! It saves me 700$", however I think I'm more in the group of saying my life is work more then $700 difference if need be.

Ahhh, decisions.

 

[08summit]

X2...I can't seem to find much info about any of these bags on the net either. I have the same questions...reliability? What type of testing is done? What codes or practices have to be meet? Seems like almost every other product I search there is an abundance of info on line. I really don't like making decisions about something that can save your life on he said, she said...some solid facts would definitly be an asset. Should I believe ABS and Snowpulse are the better of the 3 due to there price??? I just hope when I do buy one this month I don't regret the decision I make...with any luck it will never be deployed anyway but would be nice to know you have the best/safest pack out there regardless of the price.

 

[RGM]

Avalanche Airbags - ABS food for thought - SnoWest Forum

Here is some data. Some other points about the ABS

Left hand trigger pull available- Keep your right hand on the throttle

Bags stay inflated - you still need to ride out. An inflated bag is easier to spot easier to pull out and gives protection if needed to be shoveled out.

Vario has zip on packs - gives you the option of changing sizes or replacing cheaply if the pack get damaged.

With the now cheaper canister exchange it is easier to get replaced than finding some where that has the equipment to fill the snowpulse.

Ray

 

[Shibby!]

X2...I can't seem to find much info about any of these bags on the net either. I have the same questions...reliability? What type of testing is done? What codes or practices have to be meet? Seems like almost every other product I search there is an abundance of info on line. I really don't like making decisions about something that can save your life on he said, she said...some solid facts would definitly be an asset. Should I believe ABS and Snowpulse are the better of the 3 due to there price??? I just hope when I do buy one this month I don't regret the decision I make...with any luck it will never be deployed anyway but would be nice to know you have the best/safest pack out there regardless of the price.

I agree. If you find any info let me know. Or, on the other hand let me know what you decide on.

It seems people just buy what others recommend, or what little information they use to guage their opinion on.

 

[milton]

I bought mine at the edmonton show this year and bought it solely on the many of years that abs has been around. i don't do any highmarking but from time to time find myself on some steep slopes in the trees. After watching some of the avy videos this past summer and seeing avy's happen in the strangest places, i decided it would be a good purchase this year. Never thought i would have to ever buy a spare handle and canister because i don't play in those type of area's, well i did cause i hooked the activation handle on the handle bars after leaning over to clean the snow off one of my side panel screens so that pack now just cost me a hundred and fifty bucks more for the new kit. So in total the bag has cost me 1400 bucks. Wonder what will happen when i snag it on a branch or something, probably another 150 bucks.

 

[Shibby!]

I thought the "recharge" is now about 60$ for the ABS bag?

 

[Shibby!]

Avalanche Airbags - ABS food for thought - SnoWest Forum

Here is some data. Some other points about the ABS

Left hand trigger pull available- Keep your right hand on the throttle

Bags stay inflated - you still need to ride out. An inflated bag is easier to spot easier to pull out and gives protection if needed to be shoveled out.

Vario has zip on packs - gives you the option of changing sizes or replacing cheaply if the pack get damaged.

With the now cheaper canister exchange it is easier to get replaced than finding some where that has the equipment to fill the snowpulse.

Ray

Sorry,

Not sure how I missed your post.

Either way I'll check out your link but have a question right off the bat.

Is there any benefit to the Snowpulse bag deflating? With this deflation if stuck under the snow, will it increase your space for movement/air diffusion out of the snow?

I like the flexibility of the ABS having both movement of the trigger and vario qualities of bag change out. I both snowboard and sled and although I likely won't switch out the bags I like the option to if needed. However on the other hand I also like the fact of the Snowpulse "protection", but double guess it's value. Will that cavity completely fill with snow? Will it hinder more then protect? In the event, can your ride out with it deployed?

When stuck with a situation where an avy might form/is forming, you are supposed to pull first, think later. Does that pulling of the snowpulse mean you have to bail on the sled which may be your only asset at that moment in time?

EDIT: Another note. Has anybody ridden with an avy bag deployed? Either style? I can't imagine it's easy unless the inflated bags fold in behind you. I've rode with a snowboard strapped to my back and it's not easy! Sure the bags are lighter then the snowboard, but the drag from the wind really plays havoc on your control. I "assume", once again, that the ABS has another benefit here for being more out of the way.

 

[Shibby!]

Another question:

Are prices for all these bags fixed or does some suppliers offer better pricing?

I will likely be buying in the next few days before I head out for the first time this year.

Thanks,

 

[RGM]

If you are caught in an avy you might have an option of riding to the side or out running it. Time would be critical and taking your hand off the throttle while you pull the trigger might be the difference between riding out or getting caught. The ABS bag is the only bag where you can change the trigger to a left hand pull so you can keep your right hand on the throttle.

I can't see an advantage in having the bag slowly deflate. It certainly would be easy enough for other manufactures to drill a pin hole if they thought it would be better.
1. You still need to ride out, a deflated bag not going to do much if you get caught in a second avy.
2. We have heard about second and third avy's coming down and reburying or burying victims deeper. Again a deflated bag not going to be much good.
3. If you do get caught in a terrain trap and snow does cover you It will be easier to dig you out and offer more protection with a inflated bag. This has been reported by WARI when they were doing their testing.

The days of riding without a helmet are long gone and a helmet will protect you more then an airbag.

It would be great if some independent organazation like the CAA would compile some stats of the different brands


Safe sledding

 

[Shibby!]

The days of riding without a helmet are long gone and a helmet will protect you more then an airbag.

haha.

I still see people riding without helmets.

I ride dirt bikes fairly agressively in the bush. I often see quaders without lids and when asking fish and feathers, apparently it's still not law that they are required. I imagine sleds are the same way. To me, it's rediculous not to.

Either way, thanks for the info. I'm going to put some serious thought into it and pick up a pack before I get out riding this season.

 

[Sleeper700]

Avalanche Airbags - ABS food for thought - SnoWest Forum

Here is some data. Some other points about the ABS

Left hand trigger pull available- Keep your right hand on the throttle

Bags stay inflated - you still need to ride out. An inflated bag is easier to spot easier to pull out and gives protection if needed to be shoveled out.

Vario has zip on packs - gives you the option of changing sizes or replacing cheaply if the pack get damaged.

With the now cheaper canister exchange it is easier to get replaced than finding some where that has the equipment to fill the snowpulse.

Ray

I have the Snowpulse bag. I am fully able to use my left hand to deploy the bag, even though it is on the left side. This is NOT an issue. When 2 of us test deployed our bags this fall, they didn't self deflate after at least 5 minutes (or we didn't give them enough time to self deflate). We had to use the stick inside the bag to deflate them. The new Snowpulse line has a zipper setup choice as well. Any scuba shop that has a paintball adapter can fill the canisters if you have the kit from snowpulse to replace the o-ring yourself, or just take it in to any of the dealers. I think that the protection behind and beside the head is well worth the pack, and even though they haven't been making them for 20 years, the quality seems to be right on. The only beef that I have with my snowpulse pack, is the cheap gauge that they used on the cylinder. I am all for the visual check, but make sure that your gauges aren't gonna read low after the first deployment.
Just my 2cents.

 

[GasCan]

I looked long and hard at both the high end avy bags and recently bought one at the Calgary show. While the ABS bag has a lot going for it, I went for the Snowpulse Highmark 30 because of the way it shields your head and covers your chest for added protection. Giving you that shielded space around your Helmut may be a determining factor if you're ever carried down in a slide or buried. The bag takes about 15-20 minutes to start to partially deflate and if still buried that may give you a pocket of air that can give you an extra period of time to be dug out? I deployed one at the show and it felt good around my head and neck. I've also seen one deployed in an Avy class and it does not deflate in 5 minutes. It slowly starts after about 15 minutes and knowing the snow pack stops moving in a few minutes, that sits fine with me.

If I ever need to use it you can bet I'll be kicking hard and swimming for the top of the snow as I'm swept down the hill. If that were to go as planned, I would be hopeful that someone had my position and could quickly get me out before a second slide could hit. If not, then at least my head and neck would be protected from a second slide and I would have to put my trust in my riding group that they find me quickly with a beacon search and dig me out. Too many what ifs and too much procrastination to hold off on a decision for me. Truthful fact is, having one available to me in the time of need may be the very thing that saves my life.

Remember, you run out of air fairly quick when buried and often victims are dug out with an ice mask around their face because they were packed in snow! That extra space could become a contributing factor of survival in a worst case scenario? With all of that being said, there is a lot going for both manufactures of the bags and I am happy owning either.

 

[Shibby!]

"Originally Posted by Ruegsegger
I am new to the mountain scene and looking into a pack like this, just wondering how do i know what size bag i need? im 6' 2 185 pounds would this bag work for me?
By sizes you mean?"

There are two sizes you should be concerned with. One would be pack size. 10-15-30-45-55 (i think) litres. This is the space within the pack. Guage your requirements by what you need to store. It's recommended you keep everything you need in case of an emergency on the person. Dry food, water, matches, shovel, probe, flare, candle, safety blanket, compass, GPS, etc, etc, etc. Tools and such go on the sled.

The second size is the pack size. Some manufactures like ABS offer different size backpacks for long or short torso's. This is what you'll have to research. I'm an easy guess being 6'4". I imagine you are still in the same group as me. Shorter ones I've heard are for shorter men or short/average women.

Hope that helps.

 

[Justin @ C3 PowerSports]

C3 PowerSports is a Snow Pulse dealer located in Salmon-Arm B.C. If you have any questions or want to test one out please visit our shop.

The Snow Pulse bags have a few size options. First is the size of your bag (how much you can put into it) they come in 15L, 30L and 45L. It also comes in a small frame and large frame. The small frame fits people who are 5.9" and smaller and the large fits everyone else. All the airbags are the same size.

You can also easily deploy your bag wile keeping your hand on the throttle. This is not an issue.

They have a Patented 150L Airbag with Face-Up Flotation, and Trauma Protection - this is very important when actually in an avalanche, as the airbag protects your head and neck while pulling you out of the snow. Some of the other airbags actually flip you face first into the snow because the bag deploys behind them instead of deploying over your shoulders.

They have Refillable Air Cylinders, and are easy to maintain with new o-rings. We also have a fill station if you need your tank refilled.

They have Locking Aluminum Buckles, Mesh Back Ventilation, Hydration System Compatible, Water Proof Zippers and come with a 3 year warranty.

They are available and in our store in Salmon-Arm

 

[Shibby!]

Got out last week with my new ABS Vario 30L backpack.

Other then the cost, this pack is wicked! Holds everything you need and more. With the limiter straps you can snug it up so it doesn't flop around. I have everything from dryed food to candles and extra socks.

The best thing I like about the pack is it's construction. Great quality and it carry's the weight amazingly well. You barely notice you have THAT much weight on your back.

Big thumbs up for ABS.

 

[Polar Express]

Might as well jump right in headfirst, right?

I respect ABS for bringing their product to market a long time ago. Good for them.

I like how Snowpulse uses a bag design that can offer some head/neck protection from trauma. They are also easier to recharge than ABS.

I just purchased 2 BCA packs. Here's why:

1) BCA has always made great quality products. I realize the pack is not at market quite yet, but I expect the quality standards to remain high.

2) they have a price point of $500 USD. Thats HALF of what others have been charging for a long time.

3) The prototype I got to put my hands on at the snow show in WA, had lots of storage space left, and the empty bag wasn't that heavy. (I'm a larger guy, so I don't mind a few extra ounces over a standard pack)

4) they way they designed their pack, was to make refills as easy as possible. While this reason is most important to me, I saved it for last so I could explain why: Im a fireman, we train and practice on life-saving drills and equipment all the time. We do this so when we need to use that equipment, we don't have to 'stop and think about it'. In an emergency, I believe we DO NOT rise to the occasion, but rather we shrink to the level we have trained to. By having the pack easily fill-able, I can deploy this in my garage or living room a number of times before I ever take it riding. This way, I'll know where the handle is, what it feels like with my vest, coat, helmet and gloves on, and exactly how hard I have to pull, and what that feels like as well. I want to be able to train and practice.

That is why I chose BCA. They are going to great lengths to make refilling the cans as easy as possible. I got to meet with one of their regional sales reps last week, and his attitude proved that to me.

OK, I think I'm done for now. :d
PE

 

[Shibby!]

Good point,

However I always like to raise the unanswered or point out the opposite because when taken correctly, it can be very informative. I'm not trying to argue.

1) Does it not worry you that the release date has been pushed of multiple times with the BCA bag? Of course a company won't market why they are doing this. IIRC it WAS supposed to come out in September. I have only heard rumours so I won't comment. Additionally, BCA likely only markets the bag under their name. Somebody else I'd image is building it. Not necessarily a bad thing provided BCA is willing to stick their neck out to put their name on the bag and doing the proper quality control.

2) If their bag is the same as others (ABS), they have a maximum use. Everytime you deploy them, they are getting closer to replacement. I'd have to check what ABS recommends, but IIRC, it's 10 deployments. (keep in mind this is just rambling a number off my head. I could check later) It may be higher with bags already pulled from pack. This is how the dealership set them off.

3) Refillable is argueable. I do understand this is great, but you can always:
a) Keep a spare canister,
b) easily swap out at a qualified dealership. I know mine stocks the cartridges so I go in, pay 25-40$, and get another canister right there. They are filled by qualified people. I simply have to weight the canister everytime I use the pack (letter weight scale at work works good for me)

That being said, I give it up to any company willing to release one at a reasonable cost. I think this new bag can only bring good to our sport, our equipment, and our enjoyment of the outdoors.

 

[Uturn]

Good point,

However I always like to raise the unanswered or point out the opposite because when taken correctly, it can be very informative. I'm not trying to argue.

1) Does it not worry you that the release date has been pushed of multiple times with the BCA bag? Of course a company won't market why they are doing this.
I'm willing to wait, I would rather they get it right, than let the user be the test dummy(Think Polaris)

2) If their bag is the same as others (ABS), they have a maximum use. Everytime you deploy them, they are getting closer to replacement. I'd have to check what ABS recommends, but IIRC, it's 10 deployments.
Good point, information shuld be available for all packs

3) Refillable is argueable. I do understand this is great, but you can always:
a) Keep a spare canister,Yes
b) easily swap out at a qualified dealership. I know mine stocks the cartridges so I go in, pay 25-40$, and get another canister right there. They are filled by qualified people. I simply have to weight the canister everytime I use the pack (letter weight scale at work works good for me)
Most firefighters are qualified to fill the air packs that they depend upon daily for their life. I trust that more than a dealer who only just took the training and hasn't filled very many so far. Who qualifies the dealer, do they take approved training and are they certified by the company who sells the cylinders?

That being said, I give it up to any company willing to release one at a reasonable cost. I think this new bag can only bring good to our sport, our equipment, and our enjoyment of the outdoors.

Any competition eventually makes all the products better, and hopefully cheaper.