kjb
Active VIP Member
A heads up on avy beacons and electronic devices. There is a bunch of different info on the web on this. They don't mix well. Take it for what it's worth. Here are some different posts on it:
General statement to the issue
„ Warning: Motorola GP340 can turn Pieps to Off or Search “
In the recent years the performance of avalanche beacons has been improved significantly – like direction indication of Tracker (BCA) or 3rd-PIEPS-antenna. The performance is getting closer and closer to the limits given by physics to provide better “tools” for rescuers. But ALL avalanche beacons – also for former analogue models have on common sense: This are high sensitive devices, designed to work with magnetic flux lines with a scale of about 1:100.000 (50m range means about one-hundred-thousandth of the same signal strength of 1m distance).
Due to their nature, ALL of beacons are very sensitive against electrical and magnetical interference.
If a Ferrite-antenna is exposed to the field of an magnet (magnet of a speaker of a radio equipment in extremely close proximity, less than 5 cm), not only the signal strength (send AND receive) can be influenced significantly. Also the magnetic property of the Ferrite material is changed, due to the magnetic remanence – this can last a couple of minutes (up to 15 minutes). Depending on the strength and intensity of this influence, the impact on avalanche beacons can be slightly or significantly – it also need to be taken into account, that some beacons are working with compasses.
Due to this, it’s a recommendation from all manufacturers that minimum distances should be maintained between avalanche beacons and electronic, magnetic or metallic influences (like radios, mobiles phones, MP3-players, bunch of keys)! PIEPS recommends: • during SEND mode: min.15 cm • during SEARCH mode: min. 1,5 Meters
Furthermore, there are almost no other products ranges, where European standards are defined this tight. For instance, the maximum allowed signal strength of transmitting avalanche beacons is less than the maximum allowed electrical and magnetic noise level of all other products. Especially radios and mobile phones are barely limited (everybody knows the interference when a mobile phone starts ringing in the near a computer computer).
Additionally special standards for mechanical stress are at a unique level for avy beacons(6 drops to hard surface from 1 meter height – after that the beacons must be fully functioning and must be fully waterproofed). For this reason some manufacturers did choose a magnetic switch (reed contact) for ON/OFF and/or for SEND/SEARCH. Yes, theoretically with a very strong magnetic field you can override activate/deactivate this switch.
With the PIEPS-DSP you are not able to activate the magnet switch with the Motorola GP340 – as long as you are wearing it as instructed (beacons should be worn in the carrying harness or a trouser pocket – but always with the display towards you body).
Furthermore common known basic rules must be maintained:
„For years it’s common education standard, that minimum distances to radios, mobile phones and other electric- or magnetic influences to avalanche beacons must be maintained, independently from model and manufacturer and in all operation modes! This is common education standard for all rescue organisations!”
Mag. Walter Würtl Scientist, Mountain Guide
Official legal expert for mountain-rescue, avalanche awareness, avalanche excidents, avalanche protection Education instructor, Austrian Alpine Club Head avalanche instruction of Austrian-Mountain-Rescue-Organisation (until end of 2008)
Schober Michael, General Manager, PIEPS GmbH
Lebring, 16.01.2009
http://www.wildsnow.com/1609/jonathans-wildsnow-beacon-test-notes/
PSA: Beacons and iPods Do Not Mix - Teton Gravity Research Forums
Pieps DSP - (apparently) iPhone related failure mode - Teton Gravity Research Forums
_
_Another quote i found interesting:
___I must have posted this in some other thread, but I was able to replicate the Pieps problem even with refrigerator door magnets.
I never was able to find a jacket with magnetic closures, but I did find a pair of gloves with magnets: very weak, even though they're intended to keep the gloves together. Despite the glove magnets being so weak, they also caused the same problem in the DSP. (Has to be in very close proximity though, but given that the magnets were in the gloves...) _____________
General statement to the issue
„ Warning: Motorola GP340 can turn Pieps to Off or Search “
In the recent years the performance of avalanche beacons has been improved significantly – like direction indication of Tracker (BCA) or 3rd-PIEPS-antenna. The performance is getting closer and closer to the limits given by physics to provide better “tools” for rescuers. But ALL avalanche beacons – also for former analogue models have on common sense: This are high sensitive devices, designed to work with magnetic flux lines with a scale of about 1:100.000 (50m range means about one-hundred-thousandth of the same signal strength of 1m distance).
Due to their nature, ALL of beacons are very sensitive against electrical and magnetical interference.
If a Ferrite-antenna is exposed to the field of an magnet (magnet of a speaker of a radio equipment in extremely close proximity, less than 5 cm), not only the signal strength (send AND receive) can be influenced significantly. Also the magnetic property of the Ferrite material is changed, due to the magnetic remanence – this can last a couple of minutes (up to 15 minutes). Depending on the strength and intensity of this influence, the impact on avalanche beacons can be slightly or significantly – it also need to be taken into account, that some beacons are working with compasses.
Due to this, it’s a recommendation from all manufacturers that minimum distances should be maintained between avalanche beacons and electronic, magnetic or metallic influences (like radios, mobiles phones, MP3-players, bunch of keys)! PIEPS recommends: • during SEND mode: min.15 cm • during SEARCH mode: min. 1,5 Meters
Furthermore, there are almost no other products ranges, where European standards are defined this tight. For instance, the maximum allowed signal strength of transmitting avalanche beacons is less than the maximum allowed electrical and magnetic noise level of all other products. Especially radios and mobile phones are barely limited (everybody knows the interference when a mobile phone starts ringing in the near a computer computer).
Additionally special standards for mechanical stress are at a unique level for avy beacons(6 drops to hard surface from 1 meter height – after that the beacons must be fully functioning and must be fully waterproofed). For this reason some manufacturers did choose a magnetic switch (reed contact) for ON/OFF and/or for SEND/SEARCH. Yes, theoretically with a very strong magnetic field you can override activate/deactivate this switch.
With the PIEPS-DSP you are not able to activate the magnet switch with the Motorola GP340 – as long as you are wearing it as instructed (beacons should be worn in the carrying harness or a trouser pocket – but always with the display towards you body).
Furthermore common known basic rules must be maintained:
„For years it’s common education standard, that minimum distances to radios, mobile phones and other electric- or magnetic influences to avalanche beacons must be maintained, independently from model and manufacturer and in all operation modes! This is common education standard for all rescue organisations!”
Mag. Walter Würtl Scientist, Mountain Guide
Official legal expert for mountain-rescue, avalanche awareness, avalanche excidents, avalanche protection Education instructor, Austrian Alpine Club Head avalanche instruction of Austrian-Mountain-Rescue-Organisation (until end of 2008)
Schober Michael, General Manager, PIEPS GmbH
Lebring, 16.01.2009
http://www.wildsnow.com/1609/jonathans-wildsnow-beacon-test-notes/
PSA: Beacons and iPods Do Not Mix - Teton Gravity Research Forums
Pieps DSP - (apparently) iPhone related failure mode - Teton Gravity Research Forums
_
_Another quote i found interesting:
___I must have posted this in some other thread, but I was able to replicate the Pieps problem even with refrigerator door magnets.
I never was able to find a jacket with magnetic closures, but I did find a pair of gloves with magnets: very weak, even though they're intended to keep the gloves together. Despite the glove magnets being so weak, they also caused the same problem in the DSP. (Has to be in very close proximity though, but given that the magnets were in the gloves...) _____________
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