Muddy water

[whoDEANie]

Without a working machine to ride last weekend, I thought I'd spend the holiday Monday sipping on cold ones while tubing down the Pembina River. As you'd expect with all the rain lately, the water was extremely high and extremely muddy. In fact the water was almost completely opaque and everything under water was covered with a fairly thick layer of mud and silt.

Forgive me if this seems like an ignorant question, but how does this affect the river's echo system in comparison to a couple of quads washing their bikes in a stream? True, the quadders muddy the water, but it clears up after a short time (or so it seems) whereas the storm muddied rivers can be that way for days or even weeks. ...relax now, I'm not talking about the extreme cases where guys are dumping oil or ripping up endless kilometers of creek bed, I'm just talking about the guy (not me, of course ) who's having a little fun or trying to save himself $40 in the car wash. Is it really as hamful as it has been made out to be? If so, I wouldn't mind a little education on the subject.

 

[teeroy]

can you imagine how many completely muddy quads it would take to dirty the water like it is running now? I can understand not doing it in a pristine, mountain environment where it never sees dirt in the water.

I think that is the picture that environmentalists see when they imagine OHV users washing their machines in a creek. you know, like a snow white scene where the birds and small woodland creatures are dancing and singing....

hypocrites

 

[Mike270412]

During one of the big Red River floods in southern Manitoba the subject was brought up of all the fluids from all the farm equipment etc.that was under water.This was on the local talk radio station and the scientist they were interviewing said the minute amount of oil,gas,coolant,etc. that was mixing with the flood waters was so diluted it was about the same as pissing in the ocean.Virtually un-noticeable.I figure its about the same as a little oil from your quad in a muddy creek.

 

[winterax]

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/333554.pdf

 

[whoDEANie]

can you imagine how many completely muddy quads it would take to dirty the water like it is running now? I can understand not doing it in a pristine, mountain environment where it never sees dirt in the water.

I think that is the picture that environmentalists see when they imagine OHV users washing their machines in a creek. you know, like a snow white scene where the birds and small woodland creatures are dancing and singing....

hypocrites

Hyocrites seems a bit harsh, but probaly so true at the same time. There's a good chance that many of the squeakiest hinges have a gas guzzler, don't rectycle, or worst of all, use coal powered power for thier hydroponics lights?

I don't want to attack the people that are making these claims, I just want to see if there's actually merit to their concerns. When examing any situation involving any kind of motorized vehicles, the effects appear horrific on a micro scale, but often when you look at them on a bigger scale, the effects seems kinda trivial. ...I'm wondering if a similar example might be the thousands of bugs that end up on your winsheild over the course of a year even though you obviously didn't hurt the echosystem by removing that many bugs from it.

 

[whoDEANie]

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/333554.pdf

I can seen good points there that I hope it would improve awareness oft those who may not be aware of the potential impacts. Embarssingly, I haven't been riding very long and was totally ignorant at first. Now, I'm a little more aware, and like most of us, am painfully aware of the guidlines posted in that document. ...and it doesn't hurt for a reminder once in a while.

Nowl et's talk about a "best case" or "less worse case" scenario where the creek/river/stream connects two segments of an existing trail that gets used regularly. Now, someone crosses that section repeatedly to wash their quad off before going home. Is that crossing detrimental to the echosystem anywhere other than in the immediate area? Did we kill the breeding ground for one or two fish or did we affect the ecosystem detrimentally for kilometers? It's being implied that this kind of activity will have some sort of horrific impact. I'm kinda curious just how destructive a creek crossing actually can be regardless of the number of times it is crossed.

 

[kbrunlees]

And when you cross the rivers up in the mountains, is there any difference? I think this is a non issue created by a non motorized zealot. Now if you are washing some local mud off in say ruby lake then I think you should be shot. JS

 

[whoDEANie]

And when you cross the rivers up in the mountains, is there any difference? I think this is a non issue created by a non motorized zealot. Now if you are washing some local mud off in say ruby lake then I think you should be shot. JS

Good point. Actually, contamination should always be a concern regardless of the "delecacy" of the terrain. From what I understand, you could contaminate a good portion of a canola field even easier than you can contaminate Ruby Lake.

 

[winterax]

It is an issue when you start to cross creeks, small streams etc multiple times and at the wrong time. As the pamphlet states, you start to erode the banks, silt up spawning grounds, thus less place for fish eggs and so on and so on. I agree, you look at the large rivers after spring run off or after a major rain and wonder what the fuss is all about, but that's not where fish are reproducing. You might think that the creek "flushes "itself out after heavy rain, not necessarily so. Add the erosion from the trail and you're suddenly making the situation that much worse. You might think that little water hole in the middle of a skeg that your're winching yourself through won't do any harm, but more than likely it flows into a higher order water course and thats where the problems can start. One quad, probably not a big deal, weekend of quads, now you have a problem.

On a regular basis, I have to oversee the building of about 10-20 stream crossings in the summer, double that in the winter. Every inspection that SRD comes out on it's the first thing they check. I think it will be just a matter of time before they start focusing on ATV trails and shutting them down because of siltation/ erosion issues.

I've tried many times at work to argue with P-geos, biologists and hydraulogists about how to handle some crossings and they win with facts every time. Even got to the point were I was taking courses on the stuff so I could trip them up, they're right siltation buggers stuff up in smaller water courses. You cant argue against hard science

If we dont get our act together and start staying away from these spots or building the proper structures to cross them ( Crowsnest Quad Squad does an excellent job on this sort of stuff ) there's going to less and less areas to ride in.

 

[whoDEANie]

It is an issue when you start to cross creeks, small streams etc multiple times and at the wrong time. As the pamphlet states, you start to erode the banks, silt up spawning grounds, thus less place for fish eggs and so on and so on. I agree, you look at the large rivers after spring run off or after a major rain and wonder what the fuss is all about, but that's not where fish are reproducing. You might think that the creek "flushes "itself out after heavy rain, not necessarily so. Add the erosion from the trail and you're suddenly making the situation that much worse. You might think that little water hole in the middle of a skeg that your're winching yourself through won't do any harm, but more than likely it flows into a higher order water course and thats where the problems can start. One quad, probably not a big deal, weekend of quads, now you have a problem.

On a regular basis, I have to oversee the building of about 10-20 stream crossings in the summer, double that in the winter. Every inspection that SRD comes out on it's the first thing they check. I think it will be just a matter of time before they start focusing on ATV trails and shutting them down because of siltation/ erosion issues.

I've tried many times at work to argue with P-geos, biologists and hydraulogists about how to handle some crossings and they win with facts every time. Even got to the point were I was taking courses on the stuff so I could trip them up, they're right siltation buggers stuff up in smaller water courses. You cant argue against hard science

If we dont get our act together and start staying away from these spots or building the proper structures to cross them ( Crowsnest Quad Squad does an excellent job on this sort of stuff ) there's going to less and less areas to ride in.

Thanks for the response. I think I'll have to follow your example and educate myself a little on the subject.