Warranty denied because of aftermarket can.

[Eldereldo]

Edit: alright the general consensus is "you screwed up, get over it and fix your mistake". So accepting that, and that I am going to have to rebuild the motor, probably from the crank up since the bottom end is probably damaged, give me some idea of what that might cost. And what I should be checking as the reason for the piston scoring.


So I had a problem with my 2014 Arctic Cat, ran it out of oil one ride. In my defense I did check the oil level before heading out, but it wasn't very light and on the Cat you have to look at a sight glass and decide if it is covered with oil or not as the oil tank is solid metal. However they also have a low oil warning light that is supposed to illuminate once you get down to a tank of gas, worth of oil. That never came on. We eventually figured out what had happened and siphoned oil over from another sled to get back home,but after that the engine was way harder to pull over. So I took it into my dealer, told them what happened they checked the motor and determined that one of the cylinders was scored and they put in a warranty claim.

That just came back denied because the sled had an after market can on it, and the warranty company( not Arctic Cat, this was the extended warrantiy) said that the can caused the issue. so I asked them how they determined that and they said that it was because it was aftermarket and any aftermarket parts voided the warranty. I pointed out that the clause said that the warranty was void if the damage could be attributed to the aftermarket part, so how were they proving it was the can. The reply was that all cans change the back pressure and therefore any damage would have been caused by it.

Seems to me that isn't proof, just a excuse to get out of paying for the repair. And that the actual damage wasn't caused by the can,but by running out of oil because the low warning light did not work. But they said there was no evidence of that because it would have caused overheating and wouldn't have effected just one cylinder. Not sure why the can would have affected just one cylinder either then but they just kept saying the warranty was void because I had an after market can so I gave up on taking to them.

Before I take this to a friend who is a lawyer and ask him to deal with it, wanted to find out how many people out there have had issues with their motors being damaged by cans, and who has seen a warranty claim denied because they had one installed and finally whether you think it is more likely the oil issue, or a can caused this.

 

[Lund]

Here is a general rule concerning 2strokes.
Top end damage such as cylinders and piston's, generally damage is caused by over heating from either lack of cooling(lack of snow) or an intake air/fuel ratio problem or exhaust issue. Not generally by an oil issue.
Bottom end, issues are more related to oiling problem's.
In other word's if your motor would have starved on oil, most likely there would had been bottom end damage included.
Piston scuffing and damage can be caused by poor exhaust and many other things. Not saying your can is the cause, but unlikely it's oil caused.

 

[Danbot]

Surely, the warantee contract states that any modification to the original exhaust system voids warantee.
This is where a good dealer usually steps up and hides the aftermarket parts from the warantee dudes. Obviously we all know the can did not cause the failure, like you said.... it's a means to get out of paying for the claim. Unfortunately, if the contract is written like most are they will have solid legal grounds to void your warrantee for this claim.
Your dealer dropped the ball. Especially if you got the can from them.... I would be pissed!

 

[Eldereldo]

No I didn't get the can from them, and I supposed I should have thought of putting the stock one back on before taking it in, but from what I see pretty much everyone on here immediately replaces the can when they buy a sled, and I guess I figured that doing so wasn't going to be an issue. Might have to suck it up as a lesson learned, but still going to have my friend look at the wording and see if they actually have to provide proof, or they can just say it caused the damage, because we say it did.

 

[Eldereldo]

Here is a general rule concerning 2strokes.
Top end damage such as cylinders and piston's, generally damage is caused by over heating from either lack of cooling(lack of snow) or an intake air/fuel ratio problem or exhaust issue. Not generally by an oil issue.
Bottom end, issues are more related to oiling problem's.
In other word's if your motor would have starved on oil, most likely there would had been bottom end damage included.
Piston scuffing and damage can be caused by poor exhaust and many other things. Not saying your can is the cause, but unlikely it's oil caused.

So so I guess I am going to need to check the bottom end to see if it was damaged by the oiling issue, and am out of luck if it is as now the warranty is voided.

 

[Lund]

So so I guess I am going to need to check the bottom end to see if it was damaged by the oiling issue, and am out of luck if it is as now the warranty is voided.

Being that the piston is damage, it will be a sure thing to take the bottom end apart for inspection and cleaning as all the filings from the piston will travel through the bottom end. A good technician will be able to tell you if the bottom is damage from oil starvation or just fillings from the top end failure. Either way the cases need to be taken apart.

I agree with the previous post, if you would have swap the original muffler back on. You might had gotten warranty.

 

[Mike270412]

I don't like that new oil tank either but to avoid your situation I fill it every time I fuel up.

 

[posnick]

I wonder what my dealer would say if I ran my truck out of oil and asked them to cover it under warranty?

 

[Radar78]

I don't like that new oil tank either but to avoid your situation I fill it every time I fuel up.

Me too. I fill mine every every morning before I head out. Some guys scoff at that because of the extra wait but I'll pack a few extra pounds around for peace of mind.

 

[vodoo103]

Takes big balls to ask for warranty after running it out of oil. I probably never would have even tried to be honest - warning light or not.
If the engine screwed up after I ran it out of oil, I would have just swore at myself and started pulling wrenches / buying parts again to deal with it.

 

[Eldereldo]

Well I guess it depends if your truck manual say that your truck has a low oil warning light, and when it goes on that you are fine for oil until your next fill up,but keep a eye on it until that time. my fault for assuming that that was what it was for.

Note that I did say In my original post I checked the level, and I thought it was ok,but apparently the oil was already below the sight glass and I was just seeing the oil residue on it. Even when I did run out, both me and the guy I was riding with looked at it and thought we were seeing oil, wasn't until I took my Avalanche probe and stuck it into the tank we realized it had run out.

In any case they weren't denying a claim because of oil, they said even if it did runout, it wouldn't cause this kind of damage, they were denying it because of the can. So I guess the answer from people is yes, the can did cause the issue so suck it up?

 

[posnick]

I normally couldnt be bothered to get into these discussions but for some reason I couldnt resist this one.

A warning light is there only to tell you there is an issue or you have not done your maintenance, and warning you before serious damage occurs. Its not the machines fault you misread the oil level, regardless of a warning light working or not. If you run out of fuel 40 miles in the back of renshaw and the low fuel light never came on, who's fault is it? I agree that the can probably wasnt the issue but you made a mistake in reading the oil levels and it caused internal damage. Dosn't matter why they are denying the warranty. At the end of the day, you are responsible. You tried, you failed....Pay the bill.
Long weekend is here....Beer time.

Well I guess it depends if your truck manual say that your truck has a low oil warning light, and when it goes on that you are fine for oil until your next fill up,but keep a eye on it until that time. my fault for assuming that that was what it was for.

Note that I did say In my original post I checked the level, and I thought it was ok,but apparently the oil was already below the sight glass and I was just seeing the oil residue on it. Even when I did run out, both me and the guy I was riding with looked at it and thought we were seeing oil, wasn't until I took my Avalanche probe and stuck it into the tank we realized it had run out.

In any case they weren't denying a claim because of oil, they said even if it did runout, it wouldn't cause this kind of damage, they were denying it because of the can. So I guess the answer from people is yes, the can did cause the issue so suck it up?

 

[Eldereldo]

Yep I guess so. First sled so I made some assumptions from reading the manual that I shouldn't have. Live and learn, just going to be an expensive lesson as it sounds like I can expect the bottom end to need to be redone as well.

Anyone have an idea of what this is going to cost in parts and machine Work? I can supply the labour. Also, assuming the can isn't the issue, and running out of oil isn't what caused the cylinder damage, what I should be checking out to make sure it doesn't occur again? Fuel injectors, what else?

 

[wildthangci]

No way to know until you open it up. I've seen sleds that have been run out of oil that only needed a top end. Depends on alot of things. Tear it down and see what you've got. Post pictures and ask questions as needed.

 

[mountaincatab]

I'd try Mots first

Snow Mobile Parts

 

[Lund]

Yep I guess so. First sled so I made some assumptions from reading the manual that I shouldn't have. Live and learn, just going to be an expensive lesson as it sounds like I can expect the bottom end to need to be redone as well.

Anyone have an idea of what this is going to cost in parts and machine Work? I can supply the labour. Also, assuming the can isn't the issue, and running out of oil isn't what caused the cylinder damage, what I should be checking out to make sure it doesn't occur again? Fuel injectors, what else?

The type of damage you have and what might of caused it can generally be told by the piston and where the damage happened. For example, is the damage on top of the piston or is it on the skirting. Top of rings or below the rings. Is it on the exhaust side of piston or intake side. Is it on all 4 corner's of the piston or just one side?
Once you have more info. the real problem generally can be pin pointed.

The other question is the crank, are the bearing coming apart and are the rod bearings all loose. Was the motor knocking or just hard to pull. Did it run?
I em taking for granted that the tech that looked at it has already eliminated the crank as a problem for failure because of what you said "one piston, no oiling problem" according to tech.

 

[Eldereldo]

I don't know if they have eliminated an issue with the bottom end, sled is in BC at the moment, I am in Alberta, when I get it back I will take it a part and see what's up. Just thinking that they just looked in the exhaust to see the Pistons and cylinders as it doesn't sound like they pulled the motor apart from what the warranty guy said. It is harder to pull over, but it seemed to run fine, smoked a lot when started from cold, once it was warm it ran clean. No knocking I could hear.

 

[neilsleder]

Go get your sled put stock can back on and take it to a different dealer. Or do the right thing and pay the bill. New top end with dealer doing it 1200 and that was on my m1000. Doing it your self 400 or so


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[Eldereldo]

Go get your sled put stock can back on and take it to a different dealer. Or do the right thing and pay the bill. New top end with dealer doing it 1200 and that was on my m1000. Doing it your self 400 or so


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Whats a bottom end cost if the crank is damaged?

 

[ippielb]

Easy way to tell if the rod bearings are gone is to check for blueing on the rods themselves at the bearing on the crank, and at the wrist pin.

You can check this by taking the top end off.

If you see that, then you're better off finding a used motor to drop in it, and then part out your motor to recover costs. You'll have a lot of good parts left on your motor, and you'll only need a shortblock to replace.