Muslim Belief

[MOMMA]

I really admire all of the insight, perspective and compassion being shared on this thread. Thank you. Lots of grey area in regards to religion but the willingness to see the good in all people, theives (sorry about the jerry can) prostitutes and tax collecters is something that we try to implement as well as the above mentioned Jesus Creed.

 

[Summiteer]

You make a good point. Too bad there are some twisted, sick people out there taken advantage of the innocent, rare as it may be, under the name of Christianity.

However, from a faith perspective, when was the last time you heard of a "Christian" faith blowing up commercial airliners over Scotland, or flying jetliners into high raises to kill as many innocent people as possible just to send a message to the world. How about chemical weapons used on their own people, men, women and childeren, just because they did not agree with political policy? This was their own people with the same faith????

If you had to pick a leader to rule the world... Seriously... Would you pick a Muslim??????????? Be Honest

Think about it.

To tell you the truth I'd pick an athiest or agnostic. A world leader needs to worry what is happening to people here and now, not what may or may not happen after they die.
World War II was caused by a Christian (a lunatic Christian but Christian never the less)
Ever hear of the Crusades?
Ever hear of the inquisition?
Doctors getting shot in their home because they perform abortions.
Christians aren't any more innocent as a faith that any other.

 

[Haggis]

World War II was caused by a Christian (a lunatic Christian but Christian never the less)

??????? Confused.

Hitler was not a Christian by any means. How could you be a follower of Jesus Christ (let's all remember that Jesus was born a Jew) and seek to eradicate Jews. Interested to know why you made that assumption Summiteer?

There are a lot of people that would call themselves a Christian but it is just a self given label ie I was raised catholic therefore i am catholic, or i was raised protestant therefore i am protestant. A genuine Christian is someone that realsies that God sent His Son, Jesus, to die for our sins on the cross that we might be forgiven - accepts that fact and seeks to follow Jesus Christ after asking Him into their life. The Bible says that you will know Christians by how they seek to live their lives and the result of that.

Hitler did not follow Jesus Christ - let's be really clear on that point.

 

[Bogger]

No matter which religion you choose...your screwed because there is no clear majority...therefore you are condemned by all the others....My mother took my brother and I to church for a few years to "Introduce us to an option, and get a basic education on religion" My mothers beliefs lie with wicka (sp)...she believes in Karma, the golden rule, and life energy......realistically it sounds like the most rational of all (on the surface...I am not educated in the specifics) but I figure if I treat people the way I want to be treated then I should be able to expect the same...besides

Why would I want to go to heaven when all my freinds will be getting drunk, loud and stupid in hell......

 

[buck50]

To tell you the truth I'd pick an athiest or agnostic. A world leader needs to worry what is happening to people here and now, not what may or may not happen after they die.
World War II was caused by a Christian (a lunatic Christian but Christian never the less)
Ever hear of the Crusades?
Ever hear of the inquisition?
Doctors getting shot in their home because they perform abortions.
Christians aren't any more innocent as a faith that any other.

and that's why there was a reformation!!!!!! islam has yet to go through that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MOMMA]

I occasionally help out at a church in our valley. The pastor and his wife are amazing people. I would call them two of my best friends. I have a free spirit kind of spirituality and he is a fundamental Christian pastor. We worked on de-newagifying certain concepts to try to let go of the toxic belief pattern that developed separate from Christ's teachings. A group of people would come out to the sticks where I live and we would have an alternative spiritual service out by the creek. Fire blazing, kids swimming and fishing, and live music. It was awesome. There were people from the church, hippies, and every day people who found comfort in this type of gathering. One main idea that we tried to implement was to be the "verb" of Christianity not the noun. Meaning do the actions that Christ teaches, rather than find egoic power and status from belonging to the social club called the "church". It was amazing for a while, I did give up though when some of the judgemental "Members" of the church came down on me like a ton of bricks. They wanted me to be a "member" of the church if I was to pastor and I refused as I believe I belong to something bigger than a social club. It was a stale mate. It ended up quite messy. I do however help with the programs that I started such as a family movie night once per month that invites all families, of all religions and race to come and watch movies, eat popcorn and have fun. Last time I believe there were over 50 kids!

 

[Haggis]

I occasionally help out at a church in our valley. The pastor and his wife are amazing people. I would call them two of my best friends. I have a free spirit kind of spirituality and he is a fundamental Christian pastor. We worked on de-newagifying certain concepts to try to let go of the toxic belief pattern that developed separate from Christ's teachings. A group of people would come out to the sticks where I live and we would have an alternative spiritual service out by the creek. Fire blazing, kids swimming and fishing, and live music. It was awesome. There were people from the church, hippies, and every day people who found comfort in this type of gathering. One main idea that we tried to implement was to be the "verb" of Christianity not the noun. Meaning do the actions that Christ teaches, rather than find egoic power and status from belonging to the social club called the "church". It was amazing for a while, I did give up though when some of the judgemental "Members" of the church came down on me like a ton of bricks. They wanted me to be a "member" of the church if I was to pastor and I refused as I believe I belong to something bigger than a social club. It was a stale mate. It ended up quite messy. I do however help with the programs that I started such as a family movie night once per month that invites all families, of all religions and race to come and watch movies, eat popcorn and have fun. Last time I believe there were over 50 kids!

That sounds cool and that is what it is all about - when Jesus did 'church' it was on the top of a mountain, or in a tax collectors home, or sitting by the well! You can never go wrong trying to follow Christ - no matter what!

Rise above the negative comments and judgement you unfortunately received and just seek to follow Jesus.

 

[MOMMA]

Thank you so much. Funny thing though. Those people didn't want me to Leave the church, as I played the violin for their Sunday service. They just wanted me to behave.

 

[Billy Boy]

There is nothing better to get a good discussion going than a discussion on religion!!!!!! Who would of thought it would be on a sled and quad web site LOL But its great, I love reading the responses.

Billy Boy

 

[crazy_wheeler]

After making the original post I didn't think this thread would last this long let alone be 3 pages long. It has been interesting reading everyone's views and opinions. Myself....I don't really believe in any type of faith whether it be Christianity, Islam, Hebrew, Buddhism, Scientology, Anarchy, etc... I've been raised to believe in Christianity, Jesus Christ and God but why??? I don't know??? I guess when the time comes and old age has caught up to me with death knocking on the door I will begin to believe and have faith, might as well have something to believe in. Crude and narrow minded thinking....yes.. I guess so but if you look at all the crimes against humanity going on in the world today and in past times how can one believe in one faith more than the other or think their faith is more superior than any other. My narrow minded thought of religion is war, blood shed and death all revolve around it, a struggle for power.

 

[mountainman611]

Very well said crazywheeler! I to bit my tongue so to speak about posting a reply.
I honestly think that if people believed in there selves a bit more, there would be no need in beliefs that are simply not there.
If people could concentrate on being a better person,there would be no reason for religion.
If anything I find that religion is a crutch for people that cant figure it out for them selves. Its easy for them to f_ck up and then pray forgiveness for being an azzhole.
I have always been a person that appreciates nature and all the forces that it shows.That is my religion....that is my church.....

 

[Haggis]

Like your quote - how do you simply become a better person?

I will only speak from my faith as a follower of Jesus Christ. He spoke against the Pharisee's that on the outside were trying to be those better people but inwardly they hadn't really changed. What is on the outside doesn't matter......it is the condition of the heart that counts. eg You can tell yourself that you will not cheat on your wife, but have a secret thought life about the secretary at work , or tell yourself that you have never beeen a theif but include receipts that are not work related on your expense account. It is the condition of your heart that makes it impossible to simply try and be better.

About the 'crutch' idea - you are right. Jesus said he came for the sick not for the well.....I believe we are all 'sick' due to the sin that has infected our heart. I do not mind having the creator of heaven and earth and everything I love (my wife, my kids, those mountains we all love) being my 'crutch.'

Christianity is like the criminal standing in the prisoner's box waiting for the sentence to be passed down for crimes that he has committed for which he is guilty (us)..........the judge (God) entering the courtroom to pass the sentence as the prisoner has been found guilty, as we stand to receive our punishment......... a man (Jesus) in the public gallery stands up and says He will take the punishment for you. That is basically it - a gift! Being a Christian is about recognizing that the God who made you - loves you so much that He was willing to die for you, as it was the only way to ensure that it would be possible to have the relationship, that was broken by sin, restored. That is quite radically different than any other religions - following Jesus is all about relationship. Nothing more - nothing less.

Crazywheeler - if we could always see the bullet coming it would be good. Unfortunatly that does not always happen.

 

[mountainman611]

"It is the condition of your heart that makes it impossible to simply try and be better."



Please explain that statement...thx

 

[MOMMA]

This young boy (23) showed up in front of our house Last Sunday on his 2000 Summit. My sled was warming up, so he knew we were going out. I invited him out to ride with us, I didn't think it was safe for him to go out alone. All of a sudden he started confessing his "bad" behaviour to me. All of the reasons why he shouldn't go out to ride with us. He wanted us to know that he wasn't a good person in his past. It was so funny. I said, "buddy, I really have no room to judge you, and really I don't want to know any more stupid things you did in your past". "My husband and I looked at each other with a funny look, because each of us has been rather "stupid" in our past. He kept going. We just laughed at him and headed out on our ride. About 30kms up and two hours of jumping and climbing, his sled broke down. Complete electrical failure. My husband had to pull him back. We learned alot that day. Had we judged him, he could have been up the mountain by himself and died, that was one lesson. The second was how quickly someone tries to "be a better person" when treated with kindness. The third was a thankfulness for our life. This young guy was out by himself, we have each other, and our children for company all the time. It's funny. For someone who proclaimed himself a bad apple, he was always courteous, he was really encouraging on the hill assuring me if I did over shoot my ability he'd help dig me out, and he was thankful.

 

[mountainman611]

"I believe we are all 'sick' due to the sin that has infected our heart. I do not mind having the creator of heaven and earth and everything I love (my wife, my kids, those mountains we all love) being my 'crutch.'"


That is where the problem lies......"I believe we are all 'sick'

If you believe that there is a problem,when in reality it doesnt exist,I guess then yes you need external help.

 

[Haggis]

"I believe we are all 'sick' due to the sin that has infected our heart. I do not mind having the creator of heaven and earth and everything I love (my wife, my kids, those mountains we all love) being my 'crutch.'"


That is where the problem lies......"I believe we are all 'sick'

If you believe that there is a problem,when in reality it doesnt exist,I guess then yes you need external help.

Interesting, I think differently. This is why.

The bible says in genesis God created Adam and Eve. God gave man free will and man 'sinned' and there was seperation from God - from that point on as we are all offspring of Adam we are all born into sin. Later Jesus came to die and restore that relationship if, again because of our free will, we choose to accept that.

I often struggled with 'born into sin' and that is where my comment about the condition of our heart came from as being infected by sin if you will. I accepted it as true (part of faith) and then saw first hand just how true it was when I started having kids - children do not have to be taught how to do wrong. It really is in us from birth. The first time you hear your child tell you a lie .......it is like - where did that come from? Born into sin.

I simply cannot be good at all times - even if my outward life shows no trace of being an azzhole (your words) my heart will more than likely tell a different story. What are my motives - are they selfish? Is giving a homeless person some spare change really just because I don't want to take the time to talk to him and find out how he came to be on the streets anyway. m i faithful to me wife in action but not in thought. Do I harbor even the slightest bit of discrimination against those that are different than me? The list goes on and on and on. Yes - I need external help. Am I better than anyone else because I follow Jesus - nope.

 

[mountainman611]

Thanks for your reply Haggis. As you probably know all to well, a religeous arguement(discussion) can go on forever. It also is very hard to do in a forum format.I prefer a campfire, me with my beer,you with your holy mineral water..jk...
I thank you for your discussion.
Maybe one day we can continue this discussion,around a nice fire..."may the good lord willing"....or as I say...."we will make it happen""...Cheers.....

 

[scotts]

OK god created adam and eve, so far iam with the story, they had two sons. This is where i get lost. where do all the rest of us come from?

Haggis i wish i could belive in something like you, I truley do but i cant.

What about the untold millions of peolple who lived lives hundreds and thousands of years before christianity,islam or a multitude of other modern day religions. Are their beliefs and gods mere shams of old, but not ours its the real one.
If there is a god a greater power, an almighty i think the bible, the koran these books written by men will come as close to describing this power as a comicbook will serve as an instruction manule for a nucler reactor.

 

[MOMMA]

Thanks for your reply Haggis. As you probably know all to well, a religeous arguement(discussion) can go on forever. It also is very hard to do in a forum format.I prefer a campfire, me with my beer,you with your holy mineral water..jk...
I thank you for your discussion.
Maybe one day we can continue this discussion,around a nice fire..."may the good lord willing"....or as I say...."we will make it happen""...Cheers.....

Thank you all for the insight.
Night

 

[Haggis]

Thanks for your reply Haggis. As you probably know all to well, a religeous arguement(discussion) can go on forever. It also is very hard to do in a forum format.I prefer a campfire, me with my beer,you with your holy mineral water..jk...
I thank you for your discussion.
Maybe one day we can continue this discussion,around a nice fire..."may the good lord willing"....or as I say...."we will make it happen""...Cheers.....

I'd join you in a beer Mountainman611 Campfire is the way to do it - no doubt about it. Cheers - it's been good discussing.