Last seven years have been the hottest since mankind began

[jhurkot]

I know that the government funds climate change research and doesn't fund scientists that say climate change is not real. Thats what I based my argument on. Kinda like the government funding media sources that promote left leaning govts? Do you see the correlation?

Maybe oil companies have to fund the ones that say it isn't real?

 

[Lunch_Box]

Maybe oil companies have to fund the ones that say it isn't real?

Why? Oil companies love the green movement, nearby the will have a natural gas or coal plant ready to go when needed. Instead of working at a constant to feed the grid it has to ramp up and down based on how windy or sunny it is that day and running far less efficient. Every oil company is behind the green movement in some fashion.

 

[jhurkot]

Why? Oil companies love the green movement, nearby the will have a natural gas or coal plant ready to go when needed. Instead of working at a constant to feed the grid it has to ramp up and down based on how windy or sunny it is that day and running far less efficient. Every oil company is behind the green movement in some fashion.

Whoa what? So oil companies are paying the scientists to say climate change is real so they can make more money off fossil fuels?

 

[Lunch_Box]

Whoa what? So oil companies are paying the scientists to say climate change is real so they can make more money off fossil fuels?

Im saying why would oil companies pay anyone on either side of the argument.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Whoa what? So oil companies are paying the scientists to say climate change is real so they can make more money off fossil fuels?

Look who one of the biggest wind farm owner is in eastern Canada. It’s suncor. And everyone that’s truthful about renewable energy knows that it has to be backed up by fossil fuel fired generators for the 80% of the time when the renewables are incapable of meeting demand. The greenies have kittens when anyone talks about nuclear power, so the backup to the renewables has to be oil or gas fired to allow for rapid demand fill in when the renewables fail to perform as promised. So yes, the oil companies profit off of renewable power generation because it always underperforms.

 

[NoBrakes!]

I've told every greeny I have ever argued with that they need to work for an oil company... The only way is from inside, the ones who protest get nothing done, but the ones who get educated and get involved, make a difference.

 

[jhurkot]

Look who one of the biggest wind farm owner is in eastern Canada. It’s suncor. And everyone that’s truthful about renewable energy knows that it has to be backed up by fossil fuel fired generators for the 80% of the time when the renewables are incapable of meeting demand. The greenies have kittens when anyone talks about nuclear power, so the backup to the renewables has to be oil or gas fired to allow for rapid demand fill in when the renewables fail to perform as promised. So yes, the oil companies profit off of renewable power generation because it always underperforms.

So why this...

 

[FernieHawk]

So why this...

View attachment 232261

Do you keep an eye on this website...I look at it two or three times a day when I check the updated weather forecast. Couple times last week the wind generation was 1 MW and I think I saw a few that were 8 MW and 13 MW. Of course the Brooks solar was ZERO because it was mid morning and late afternoon. Right now at mid day it is 5 out of a max 15MW.

Tell me how that is going to work out without constantly ramping up the oil and gas plants. Please explain. Thanks.

http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

 

[jhurkot]

Do you keep an eye on this website...I look at it two or three times a day when I check the updated weather forecast. Couple times last week the wind generation was 1 MW and I think I saw a few that were 8 MW and 13 MW. Of course the Brooks solar was ZERO because it was mid morning and late afternoon. Right now at mid day it is 5 out of a max 15MW.

Tell me how that is going to work out without constantly ramping up the oil and gas plants. Please explain. Thanks.

http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

I use this website. It shows the production for the day (or week/month/year/all time). The aeso one is just an instantaneous value.

https://www.dispatcho.app/live/BSC1?r=2592000

 

[rsaint]

Whoa what? So oil companies are paying the scientists to say climate change is real so they can make more money off fossil fuels?

Any one with a brain knows that you need a prime mover to produce power when the wind quits blowing and the sun goes down,
so who's going to step in and charge what they want to produce power with natural gas or hydro.

 

[Cdnfireman]

So why this...

View attachment 232261

note the word “planned”. Other favourite words of the renewable crowd are estimated, projected, forecast, modelled..... any time those renewable energy sources fall short of “planned”, ( typically 80% of the time) then some form of fossil fuel fired generators have to quickly pick up the slack. A prime example of this is California. Sags, brownouts and outright outages are common. I’m sure the progressive ecoweenies feel empowered when the power goes out, as for that period of time they have a zero carbon footprint. The rest of the population however aren’t too pleased, and the environment takes a kick when hundreds of small backup generators fire up to protect the homes and businesses that may experience a financial loss if the power stays off for any length of time. Ask yourself what percentage of a day is acceptable to you to go without electricity. I bet it’s close to zero.

 

[jhurkot]

note the word “planned”. Other favourite words of the renewable crowd are estimated, projected, forecast, modelled..... any time those renewable energy sources fall short of “planned”, ( typically 80% of the time) then some form of fossil fuel fired generators have to quickly pick up the slack. A prime example of this is California. Sags, brownouts and outright outages are common. I’m sure the progressive ecoweenies feel empowered when the power goes out, as for that period of time they have a zero carbon footprint. The rest of the population however aren’t too pleased, and the environment takes a kick when hundreds of small backup generators fire up to protect the homes and businesses that may experience a financial loss if the power stays off for any length of time. Ask yourself what percentage of a day is acceptable to you to go without electricity. I bet it’s close to zero.

Maybe you should post a chart of the unplanned electrical generation additions.

 

[ABMax24]

note the word “planned”. Other favourite words of the renewable crowd are estimated, projected, forecast, modelled..... any time those renewable energy sources fall short of “planned”, ( typically 80% of the time) then some form of fossil fuel fired generators have to quickly pick up the slack. A prime example of this is California. Sags, brownouts and outright outages are common. I’m sure the progressive ecoweenies feel empowered when the power goes out, as for that period of time they have a zero carbon footprint. The rest of the population however aren’t too pleased, and the environment takes a kick when hundreds of small backup generators fire up to protect the homes and businesses that may experience a financial loss if the power stays off for any length of time. Ask yourself what percentage of a day is acceptable to you to go without electricity. I bet it’s close to zero.

The areas that are having backup generators installed are more remote areas affected by wildfires. When wildfires burn down the power poles, or when the power company has to shut off power to prevent wildfires residents go a considerable time without electricity. Not really sure how this can be blamed on renewable energy? Actually renewable energy is the answer for many of these people, they are installing Tesla Powerwalls and connecting them to their solar systems, or installing solar at the same time to maintain electrical supply.

 

[LennyR]

Maybe you should post a chart of the unplanned electrical generation additions.

https://www.facebook.com/mootypootytoo/videos/10157390432756621/

 

[pfi572]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...maker-did-not-sell-zero-emission-credits.html

 

[Cdnfireman]

The areas that are having backup generators installed are more remote areas affected by wildfires. When wildfires burn down the power poles, or when the power company has to shut off power to prevent wildfires residents go a considerable time without electricity. Not really sure how this can be blamed on renewable energy? Actually renewable energy is the answer for many of these people, they are installing Tesla Powerwalls and connecting them to their solar systems, or installing solar at the same time to maintain electrical supply.

I’m not talking about the big backup stations the towns and cities are forced to install to supplement the renewables, but the business and homeowner installed generators that people installed because they couldn’t rely on the grid. And it’s not just the wildfire areas that are experiencing the brownouts and outages....it’s large areas of the state that are having problems. Imagine having to install thousands of dollars of backup power equipment to ensure you have power. In the richest country in the world. Ludicrous. All because some uneducated greenies think renewables can supply the electricity demands.

 

[X-it]

Renewables that have to be renewed often, a cost to the environment that is "never" factored in to the equation. Dumping them in the ocean i am sure is done though. Killing our planet the green way.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills

 

[ABMax24]

I’m not talking about the big backup stations the towns and cities are forced to install to supplement the renewables, but the business and homeowner installed generators that people installed because they couldn’t rely on the grid. And it’s not just the wildfire areas that are experiencing the brownouts and outages....it’s large areas of the state that are having problems. Imagine having to install thousands of dollars of backup power equipment to ensure you have power. In the richest country in the world. Ludicrous. All because some uneducated greenies think renewables can supply the electricity demands.

I knew exactly what you were talking about, since your such a valiant opponent of renewable energy I figured you'd know a Tesla Powerwall is a home based battery, that you'd at least have a little insight into the technology you continually argue against, guess not.

There's been brownouts and blackouts in any area that's ever had electricity installed. Remember that big eastern blackout of 2003? The largest ever in North America? Approximately 55 million people were without electricity in that one, can't blame that on renewables.

If you are referring to the California blackout of 2020, it was actually caused by natural gas plants failing to turn on, and incorrect day ahead estimates for electricity demand. Remember the big Aliso Canyon gas leak, that gas storage area is now operating at a reduced capacity and as such prevented some plants from having enough fuel to turn on. To further add insult to injury Aliso Canyon now has a 20MWh lithium-ion battery backup to ensure it has electricity to distribute natural gas, because the natural gas powerplants that typically run it have become too unreliable.

California is literally the worst case scenario for electricity demand, most of the demand is from commercial and residential users that turn off and on large loads without concern for supply, particularly from the energy required to run AC units on the hottest days. Most other places, Alberta included, have industrial users that can turn off elective loads to reduce load and maintain grid stability. California has had power supply issues for a very long time, it was actually the green movement that has helped to reduce demand and bring online localized sources of energy such a roof mounted solar PV. The highest power demand ever in California occurred on July 24th, 2006, when it had 3 million less residents than today. Below is a graph of demand for the average California home, it doesn't matter what you power the grid with, that's a difficult demand curve to supply.

 

[Cdnfireman]

I knew exactly what you were talking about, since your such a valiant opponent of renewable energy I figured you'd know a Tesla Powerwall is a home based battery, that you'd at least have a little insight into the technology you continually argue against, guess not.

There's been brownouts and blackouts in any area that's ever had electricity installed. Remember that big eastern blackout of 2003? The largest ever in North America? Approximately 55 million people were without electricity in that one, can't blame that on renewables.

If you are referring to the California blackout of 2020, it was actually caused by natural gas plants failing to turn on, and incorrect day ahead estimates for electricity demand. Remember the big Aliso Canyon gas leak, that gas storage area is now operating at a reduced capacity and as such prevented some plants from having enough fuel to turn on. To further add insult to injury Aliso Canyon now has a 20MWh lithium-ion battery backup to ensure it has electricity to distribute natural gas, because the natural gas powerplants that typically run it have become too unreliable.

California is literally the worst case scenario for electricity demand, most of the demand is from commercial and residential users that turn off and on large loads without concern for supply, particularly from the energy required to run AC units on the hottest days. Most other places, Alberta included, have industrial users that can turn off elective loads to reduce load and maintain grid stability. California has had power supply issues for a very long time, it was actually the green movement that has helped to reduce demand and bring online localized sources of energy such a roof mounted solar PV. The highest power demand ever in California occurred on July 24th, 2006, when it had 3 million less residents than today. Below is a graph of demand for the average California home, it doesn't matter what you power the grid with, that's a difficult demand curve to supply.

https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/1244322/Sense_California_Electricity_Consumption_Per_Hour.jpg

https://www.snowandmud.com/image/jp...eEnggHhJ4IB4SeCAeEnggHhJ4IB4QeCAor1zOzJAf/9k=

I know what a Tesla power wall is. It’s a battery. And like all batteries, it doesn’t work when discharged. And you can’t charge it without a source of supply. Like a generator. Duh. The big blackout of ‘03....caused by switching failures in a station in the Midwest. Doesn’t matter what supplied it, renewables or not, but because renewables only operate 20% of the time it’s less likely renewables will be contributing when a failure occurs. As for California, you’re right to a point, fluctuating demand is causing some problems. The biggest issue there is that the government has mandated green energy. After considerable government subsidies and outright handouts to build it, most of it was built. Conventional electrical generation was not emphasized, and power companies were not compensated for their conventional generation so they didn’t build or upgrade their infrastructure as it was uneconomical and actually discouraged by the Obama administration. They said screw it, we’re not in the business of subsidizing the renewable companies. Fast forward to 2020, the renewable companies are consistently unable to come close to their promises and the conventional companies don’t have the capacity to compensate for the failures and underperformance of the renewable suppliers. Long story short, the renewable industry made promises it couldn’t keep, and finally the buffer usually existing to cover for the unreliability of the renewables wasn’t there....coming soon everywhere else as the Biden administration pushes more unreliable renewables...

 

[ABMax24]

I know what a Tesla power wall is. It’s a battery. And like all batteries, it doesn’t work when discharged. And you can’t charge it without a source of supply. Like a generator. Duh. The big blackout of ‘03....caused by switching failures in a station in the Midwest. Doesn’t matter what supplied it, renewables or not, but because renewables only operate 20% of the time it’s less likely renewables will be contributing when a failure occurs. As for California, you’re right to a point, fluctuating demand is causing some problems. The biggest issue there is that the government has mandated green energy. After considerable government subsidies and outright handouts to build it, most of it was built. Conventional electrical generation was not emphasized, and power companies were not compensated for their conventional generation so they didn’t build or upgrade their infrastructure as it was uneconomical and actually discouraged by the Obama administration. They said screw it, we’re not in the business of subsidizing the renewable companies. Fast forward to 2020, the renewable companies are consistently unable to come close to their promises and the conventional companies don’t have the capacity to compensate for the failures and underperformance of the renewable suppliers. Long story short, the renewable industry made promises it couldn’t keep, and finally the buffer usually existing to cover for the unreliability of the renewables wasn’t there....coming soon everywhere else as the Biden administration pushes more unreliable renewables...

So why did you refer to grid scale batteries when my post clearly didn't?

Renewables don't necessarily operate at 20% capacity factor, BC gets almost 95% of it's electricity from hydro, pretty sure their lights don't go out on a regular basis, but maybe we need to create a poll asking the BC members to confirm this? There are currently wind farms in Scotland achieving in excess of 60% capacity factor.

What promises has the renewable energy industry made that it couldn't keep? CAISO, California's grid operator has various papers written on the reliability of solar and wind energy, and has reasonable forecasting for energy generation of both. The "duck curve" is a very well known phenomenon. CAISO openly acknowledges the role it's baseload nuclear plants and peaking natural gas plant play in ensuring grid stability, and is promoting and asking for grid scale storage in either the form of pumped hydro or battery technology. The first jurisdiction to implement sweeping changes will always find issues, and will also get to find solutions to them. One of the most critical of these is Rule 21 for implementation of smart solar inverters to help with grid stability.

There is no renewable conspiracy, the facts are available to the public, and easily accessible for those that choose to look for them. Deriving accurate information from political promises is foolhardy at best, not sure why that's any different for renewable energy. Governments throwing money at problems to appease voters is much different than corporations developing resources for profit, the cost of renewables is rapidly decreasing, the era of requiring subsidies and handouts to build this infrastructure is coming to a close.