Here we go again.......friggin' savior's of the earth!

[AprilO]

The manufacturers and sledding peeps need to start paying attention or there will be no more mountain riding in BC pretty soon.

Agreed!


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

 

[ferniesnow]

Record-setting conservation land buy is crucial for herd survival
Cranbrook, B.C. — The Nature Conservancy of Canada (NCC) yesterday announced a commitment to purchase and conserve 550 square kilometres of biologically-rich land in the south Selkirk Mountains of British Columbia. The acquisition of the Darkwoods forest represents the largest, single private conservation project ever done by a Canadian non-profit organization.
“Wildsight applauds the Darkwoods purchase,” said John Bergenske, Wildsight’s Executive Director. “This area—with its rare old growth forests—is crucial habitat for the recovery of Mountain Caribou in southeast B.C.”
The NCC and Canada’s Federal Government worked together to fund the $125-million project, not only buying the 55,000 hectares but setting up endowment funds to ensure the Darkwoods landscape is cared for into the future.
The Darkwoods forest is situated between Nelson, Salmo and Creston in the Selkirk Mountains. It connects a number of protected lands and wilderness management areas to create a tract covering more than 100,000 hectares – enough for wide-ranging animals such as the endangered Mountain Caribou and grizzly bear to roam freely.
The Mountain Caribou is a variety of woodland caribou that has adapted to the special conditions of B.C.’s wet, mountainous forests. It only lives in the mountains of southeast B.C. and parts of Washington, Idaho and Montana—making it globally significant. Biologists consider it one of the most endangered mammals in North America.
“Wildsight has been working to protect habitat for Mountain Caribou for over a decade, and is very, very pleased that the Federal Government of Canada and the NCC have co-operated to make this important purchase for the wild,” Bergenske said. “The Darkwoods acquisition is critical to recovery of the international transboundary herd west of Creston. We’re working with the provincial government toward announcements of further habitat protection this fall.”
The Nature Conservancy of Canada (NCC) is a private, non-profit organization dedicated to protecting Canada’s most ecologically significant lands. Wildsight is a grassroots organization that works to maintain biodiversity and healthy human communities in Canada's Columbia and Rocky Mountains ecoregion.

Bergenske does a good job and is on a mission. He is a slippery, scheming eco-hypocrit.

I have a question regarding Darkwoods. Are there any caribou there and if so maybe someone can come up with a number?

There is lots of old growth around with no caribou. Old growth is good for various other critters but there is always more natural activity in a younger forest.

 

[AprilO]

Lol Mr. Cat in the hat... I had this conversation with a gentleman who was questioning "why" he needed to purchase a club membership... he went from feeling it was to support trail grooming for which he had no use, to understanding the long term implications of not having a voice in the issues that surround all Freeriders. Unifying a voice and protecting our riding areas while educating our riders and the public plays part in the long term goal in the survival of our sport. I had a little chuckle this morning. A couple out walking their dogs this morning made a point of cleaning off the Caribou closure sign located SMACK DAB at the end of my driveway. it wasn't overly snowy, but we were sitting on our sleds watching them. There are areas around my home to ride that do not infringe on the nature conservancy, but i could see right there, an uneducated perspective on who snowmobilers are and what we do was creating their passive aggressive attempt at "showing the caribou support". As it turns out, i was quadrupling my kids with my sled to the block above my house so they could ski, snowboard and toboggan.. But all they pictured was the evil 2 stroke villian killing caribou. yup i agree.. A voice to carry our message would be a wonderful thing. A past political player who knows the games they play would be an asset. I Love animals, I love sledding.. the two are not in opposition.

Where do I buy my trail pass!! Lol I do not mind one bit in paying the trail passes each morning before going up on the trails but I do hear some guys moaning and groaning about it before they go up. Just pay it, is 20 freakin dollars!


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

 

[MOMMA]

Bergenske does a good job and is on a mission. He is a slippery, scheming eco-hypocrit.

I have a question regarding Darkwoods. Are there any caribou there and if so maybe someone can come up with a number?

There is lots of old growth around with no caribou. Old growth is good for various other critters but there is always more natural activity in a younger forest.

K I've spent some time in and around the Darkwoods area, not as much as some peeps who have grown up here... For me, the only time I've seen Caribou is on the Salmo/Creston Pass.. On the highway.. that seems to be the consensus with the locals... No one, not even the old timers here in Ymir have actually seen a Caribou up Porcupine. Now "scientists" apparently have tracked these creatures and designated the areas to be closed up here on the salmo/creston.... again..


Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm

here's a couple i saw on the Pass this past fall.

 

[MOMMA]

What a cutie pie!! How much does he weigh??


2007 Summit Rev 800
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500
2004 GMC Sierra 1500

in that pic Koda was only 5 months old. he's 7 months old now and about 80 lbs. he's going to be a biggun... Love him so much.

thank you!

 

[Bounce]

Any chance that sucker was from Frisby mountain. Lol.

Not sure but they told me it was "Free Range"....

 

[OOC ZigZag]

Agreed. But the fact that keeps getting overlooked or purposely buried in all this is that snowmobiles had nothing to do with the decline in the South Purcell Caribou population. They were eaten...by cougars...in the summer. Plain and simple. Every biologist with an educated opinion agrees with that. They're numbers have been very low, but stable since the Cougar numbers were brought under control in the late 1990's, even as snowmobile use continued and probably even increased. There is absolutley no scientific justification for the current attack on our recreation that's being disquised as "Caribou Conservation"!

Prob read an article in the near future about how cougar are using the sled tracks for hunting next.

 

[catinthehat]

One very important point that is conveniently overlooked by the green whackos and govt as well is the declining caribou population in the national parks where snowmobiling has never been allowed. The federal govt has even hired the Calgary Zoo to raise caribou for placement in the national parks, what's gonna kill them?
Wonder if we can get sledders in the mountains declared an endangered species?

 

[kenvb]

my son lives 5 miles south of Whitecourt,Cougars have killed 3 cats and 2 of his dogs,last week local Fish and Fur just shot 2 cougars near the river south of his place .Last sunday he saw 2 wolves,now he wont take his daughter on his trails with the snowmobile.

 

[kjb]

Bergenske does a good job and is on a mission. He is a slippery, scheming eco-hypocrit.


I have a question regarding Darkwoods. Are there any caribou there and if so maybe someone can come up with a number?

There is lots of old growth around with no caribou. Old growth is good for various other critters but there is always more natural activity in a younger forest.

he is a bit of an evil mofo


I think the # was around 25 a few years ago, before augmentation I think and I do believe that area is one of the few examples of caribou augmentation that actualy had some survivors. I'll try to dig that up though


The older the forest, the more aboreal lichens there are for them to eat. Same goes with the wetter the forest. They are an interior wet belt species. Aboreal lichens are their primary food.

 

[jaredszakacs]

I guess my question to the caribou society would be: what happens to these caribou in the summer do they magically dissappear when the snowmobiles are put away then re-appear when the snow flies? if a snowmobile makes a "sidewalk" in for the wolves then what does a group out ski touring create with there skis packing down the snow? Isnt logging allowed in prime caribou habitats like frisby ridge,Mcrae,alkolex,keystone,standard basin and so many other key habitat areas isnt there main food source located in the old growth forests they are cutting down? when they go out to take surveys of the animal population dont they access these areas by helicopter or noisy bush plane and fly directly over them causing these animals to run for there lifes?! Cat ski opertaions groom "Highways" into the backcountry areas were the caribou habitat are but i guess the caribou dont travel these trails because they are "green Peace" approved trails so the wolves must stay off them so they cant access caribou! with only a little over 40 animals in all of the area why do we have millions of acres shut down there is no way the animals can cover that much ground every single day and year! Havent wolves been killing caribou since before snowmobiles or other machines were invented? So if we gave the caribou society money would they turn a blind eye for us like they do logging and maybe try and scape goat another group? I think these so called Educated enviromentalists need to pull there heads out of there assess and realise they are the ones causing more of the problems for the caribou then the sledders are!

 

[moyiesledhead]

Bergenske does a good job and is on a mission. He is a slippery, scheming eco-hypocrit.
I have a question regarding Darkwoods. Are there any caribou there and if so maybe someone can come up with a number?
There is lots of old growth around with no caribou. Old growth is good for various other critters but there is always more natural activity in a younger forest.

Here's the 2010 census for the South Selkirk herd. It has a map showing where they found them. Not sure if they were in Darkwoods or not....don't know the area that well. I do know it's included as part of the habitat for that herd.



I'll probably get beat up for this, but here goes. My co-chair and I have spent years dealing with John Bergenske. As far as environmentalists go I'd rather deal with him than pretty much any other, especially those clowns with the Valhalla Wilderness, and another backstabbing individual in his own Wildsight organization. We rarely agree, but he has no hidden agenda if you press him for the truth. There are no surprises with him. He believes in what he believes in, and in a democratic society we all have that right. He's also probably the most honest of the bunch, and anyone who knows me will agree that I wouldn't say that lightly. Over the years & multitudes of meetings he's earned my respect. That doesn't mean there aren't times I'd like to strangle him though! You don't have to agree with someone to respect the way they present themselves.

Let the bashing begin.

 

[catinthehat]

I guess my question to the caribou society would be: what happens to these caribou in the summer do they magically dissappear when the snowmobiles are put away then re-appear when the snow flies? if a snowmobile makes a "sidewalk" in for the wolves then what does a group out ski touring create with there skis packing down the snow? Isnt logging allowed in prime caribou habitats like frisby ridge,Mcrae,alkolex,keystone,standard basin and so many other key habitat areas isnt there main food source located in the old growth forests they are cutting down? when they go out to take surveys of the animal population dont they access these areas by helicopter or noisy bush plane and fly directly over them causing these animals to run for there lifes?! Cat ski opertaions groom "Highways" into the backcountry areas were the caribou habitat are but i guess the caribou dont travel these trails because they are "green Peace" approved trails so the wolves must stay off them so they cant access caribou! with only a little over 40 animals in all of the area why do we have millions of acres shut down there is no way the animals can cover that much ground every single day and year! Havent wolves been killing caribou since before snowmobiles or other machines were invented? So if we gave the caribou society money would they turn a blind eye for us like they do logging and maybe try and scape goat another group? I think these so called Educated enviromentalists need to pull there heads out of there assess and realise they are the ones causing more of the problems for the caribou then the sledders are!

According to studies done over the years using data recovered from collared caribou the impact from an encounter with a skier was far greater than was an encounter with a snowmobile,
Higher heart rates; scattering further away causing extra stress; any and all signs which show higher and longer stress reactions but these studies are ignored mostly because a lot of environmentalists are skiers as well and don't want to lose their playgrounds. That was our personal experience during negotiations for closures in our area, the govt would not accept any closures that kept all users out only sledders. ( somebodies private agenda maybee? )

 

[moyiesledhead]

Hey Dave, do you still have Trevors 1990's radio collar study kicking around? I'm looking for the mortality graph. I wanna scan it and post it here.

Or you could take a pic and post it......apparantly you have the time!

 

[DaveB]

This thread is a good read and I agree about the poor mismanagment of wildlife in ALL areas. All I know, is if an area is closed, it better be F'n closed to helicopters and snocats as well. The backcountry ski operators are ALWAYS involved in "closures" at some level.

 

[moyiesledhead]

This thread is a good read and I agree about the poor mismanagment of wildlife in ALL areas. All I know, is if an area is closed, it better be F'n closed to helicopters and snocats as well. The backcountry ski operators are ALWAYS involved in "closures" at some level.

No heli or cat ski tenures in caribou habitat have been taken away. No back country skiers have been restricted. There is only a moritorium against any new tenures. Helicat Canada wrote up a best practices and "self policing" document for it's member operations and that was acceptable to government. Funny thing is.....the BCSF did the same thing for sledders, but it didn't make a damn bit of difference.

Why? Because we made ourselves an easy target by leaving it to a few overworked volunteers to look after while we (meaning YOU ALL) went out riding!

 

[deaner]

According to studies done over the years using data recovered from collared caribou the impact from an encounter with a skier was far greater than was an encounter with a snowmobile,
Higher heart rates; scattering further away causing extra stress; any and all signs which show higher and longer stress reactions but these studies are ignored mostly because a lot of environmentalists are skiers as well and don't want to lose their playgrounds. That was our personal experience during negotiations for closures in our area, the govt would not accept any closures that kept all users out only sledders. ( somebodies private agenda maybee? )

This is the stuff I am talking about. If we had one unified front that could take their "research" and use it against them it would be huge. Lets go on the offensive. Lets write our own articles pointing out how we have been villainized..........when clearly their is no evidence that actually supports snowmobiles hurting caribou populations. Your previous post to this one is pure gold. If we could do a direct comparison with our sledding areas to national parks and clearly show that the herds in the national parks are declining at a similar or accelerated rate.........what can they say to that? It is kind of a smoking gun. Also pointing out stuff like you have in this post.............its pretty hard for them to argue against it if we have all of this information gathered.

catinthehat.......you are not too far away from me. Im sending you a pm. Id love to get together some time if you could. It sounds like you have a tonne of background on this and I would love to join the fight. Like I said in my previous post, Im not ok with just hanging my head and saying "oh well, theres nothing we can do about it". I think this is a fight we can win.

 

[moyiesledhead]

This is the stuff I am talking about. If we had one unified front that could take their "research" and use it against them it would be huge. Lets go on the offensive. Lets write our own articles pointing out how we have been villainized..........when clearly their is no evidence that actually supports snowmobiles hurting caribou populations. Your previous post to this one is pure gold. If we could do a direct comparison with our sledding areas to national parks and clearly show that the herds in the national parks are declining at a similar or accelerated rate.........what can they say to that? It is kind of a smoking gun. Also pointing out stuff like you have in this post.............its pretty hard for them to argue against it if we have all of this information gathered.

Your too few volunteers have already done all of that. We didn't learn all this crap just because we were curious! Every one of those arguements has been made over and over again as a united front (Well....BCSF clubs anyway). In the end it didn't matter. We were outnumbered & out politicalled (is that even a word?). We don't stand up loudly for ourselves as snowmobilers until it's too late.....kinda like now! All our meetings with government & enviro's were open to the public & well advertised, but nobody showed up to support us including our own club members....and yours Deaner. The Creston club never showed up again after the second meeting & missed 4 years of fighting.

I've said this many times: Nobody cares till the signs go up.....then it's my fault!


Hmmm.....I think I might be a little bitter.

 

[deaner]

Your too few volunteers have already done all of that. We didn't learn all this crap just because we were curious! Every one of those arguements has been made over and over again as a united front (Well....BCSF clubs anyway). In the end it didn't matter. We were outnumbered & out politicalled (is that even a word?). We don't stand up loudly for ourselves as snowmobilers until it's too late.....kinda like now! All our meetings with government & enviro's were open to the public & well advertised, but nobody showed up to support us including our own club members.

I've said this many times: Nobody cares till the signs go up.....then it's my fault!


Hmmm.....I think I might be a little bitter.

So what.......just give up? You tried and it didnt work so we should just go home with our tail between our legs? Dont get me wrong........I truly appreciate the efforts of people such as yourself. It is without a doubt the reason that we still have the areas that we do. All Im saying is lets get some new blood involved. Lets try a different approach if the last ones havent worked.

We can meet with the environmentalists all we want and argue until we are blue in the face..........its not going to do any good. The power that we need to win this is going to come from public opinion. We need a positive, proactive presence in the media selling back country snowmobiling as a basic right of a Canadian citizen. I would love to meet with some of you older fellas that have been fighting the good fight for all these years to see exactly what kind of ammo we have........and brainstorm different possible approaches to this issue.

 

[moyiesledhead]

So what.......just give up? You tried and it didnt work so we should just go home with our tail between our legs?

I find that so offensive I won't even respond! I guess you missed the edit to my last post while you were typing.


Edit: I've calmed down now. Sorry for that....this stuff tends to get my blood boiling. No point in fighting each other. I wasn't saying give up. All I was saying was that though your ideas in that post were all great ones....they've already been done. Yes, a different approach may be more successful. All it takes is someone to take the job on. I'd be happy to help anyone out with information if they choose to try and tackle this. The cat and I have years worth of experience learned the hard way we'd be happy to share. :d