Vintage racer advice wanted

[motonorth]

Hi Guys,
Looking for some advice on purchasing a sled for vintage racing. I already do vintage snocross with my '80 ElTigre5000 and having a blast...won my first race last year! We also have some vintage Grand Prix type events (mostly tight tracks with left/ right turns and no jumps) around here that I want to get into but they have a 400cc limit. Looking for advice on what models would work best? For the class I want to race its 400cc and under, fan or free air, leaf spring and '84 and older. Most of the races seem to favor lighter, more nimble sleds like the Yamaha ET300. Anybody know if the ET 340 has the same chasis as the 300? What about a John Deer Spitfire? The Skidoo Citation SS seems really quick but how does it handle in tight, bumpy turns? I know most guys tend to have their favorite brand or model so I'm hoping for as much of an unbiased opinion as possible...if thats possible at all... Thanks in advance

 

[mach123]

Any skidoo and will lap the rest. LOL

 

[motonorth]

Thanks for such an insightful reply.

 

[snopro]

I used to have a Citation SS and it was a great sled. Might be good for ovals or turny type racing but with the leaf spring front end not so good in the bumps. The old John Deere Liquidators were a force in bump racing if you can find one. Good luck

 

[motonorth]

Thanks SnoPro. Yea, I've been really thinking about the Citation SS. There are quite a few of them around, pretty cheap and lots of parts sleds around. Just wondering...they seem to sit pretty high compared to the Yamaha Enticers. Since I'm planning to use it for the GranPrix style races...no jumps, I'm wondering which would be better. The SS does have alot of bottom end power as I remember which would be good coming off the corners. Does anyone have experince riding both that could give a good comparison? The Liquidator wouldn't work as the rules say it must be either fan or free air. What about the JD Spitfire? Those are really light right? But how well did they handle?
Thanks

 

[snopro]

The Spitfire was extremely light but I don't remember it being that powerful as well as the Enticer. The Doo had alot of zip for a 368 and the twin carbs. It had a wider ski stance than the other 2 I think. I don't know......sometimes slow and steady will win the race. Lol.

 

[pipes]

Thanks SnoPro. Yea, I've been really thinking about the Citation SS. There are quite a few of them around, pretty cheap and lots of parts sleds around. Just wondering...they seem to sit pretty high compared to the Yamaha Enticers. Since I'm planning to use it for the GranPrix style races...no jumps, I'm wondering which would be better. The SS does have alot of bottom end power as I remember which would be good coming off the corners. Does anyone have experince riding both that could give a good comparison? The Liquidator wouldn't work as the rules say it must be either fan or free air. What about the JD Spitfire? Those are really light right? But how well did they handle?
Thanks

the SS would blow away the Citation

 

[snopro]

You know what you need? You need a 76-77 Ski doo 340 RV free air or same year Moto Ski Sonic which was the twin to the RV. I raced those in the old NWSA and absolutely dominated the amatuer classes that I ran my first year of racing. I raced the Cat El Tigre 5000's in that class. They beat me to the 1st corner everytime but I usually passed them on the outside coming out of turn 2. Once I had a clean track I was gone and then off to tech right after the race. Lol. Those things handled as they were low and wide and light. Those were the days. HaHa.

 

[WopOnTour]

You know what you need? You need a 76-77 Ski doo 340 RV free air or same year Moto Ski Sonic which was the twin to the RV. I raced those in the old NWSA and absolutely dominated the amatuer classes that I ran my first year of racing. I raced the Cat El Tigre 5000's in that class. They beat me to the 1st corner everytime but I usually passed them on the outside coming out of turn 2. Once I had a clean track I was gone and then off to tech right after the race. Lol. Those things handled as they were low and wide and light. Those were the days. HaHa.

Speaking of that is this YOU on your arse with your RV? (circa ~1980-81)
or one of your compadres?

WOT


PS> To the OP I'd have to agree with Snopro, assuming you need to stick to a leaf-sprung chassis a late 70s early 80s Blizzzard, RV, or Sonic would be ideal in your application. (and reasonably priced)
Simply amazing (if you could find one) would be the 77 440 Blizzard/Super Sonic or even 78-80 SRX.

 

[snopro]

Speaking of that is this YOU on your arse with your RV? (circa ~1980-81)
or one of your compadres?

WOT

Nope not me. HaHa. I had a Moto ski Sonic 340 and 245. Never had either one of them on their lid. The twin track......now that was a different story. Lol.

 

[WopOnTour]

Here's a couple of local basket-cases wth potential for becoming a great vintage "Grand Prix" sled ala Gerard Karpik!

SKI-DOO SUPER-SONIC BLIZZARD RV VINTAGE SLEDS. - Edmonton Snowmobiles For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.

OR ANOTHER OUT EAST IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE!
http://windsor.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...mobiles-1977-skidoo-rv-340-W0QQAdIdZ339609542

WopOnTour

Below is Karpik's 79 RV sitting in the Snowmobile Hall of Fame museum

 

[motonorth]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Yea, an old RV would be the ticket alright...just getting real hard to find in decent shape or for a decent price. Trying to do this on a bit of a budget so it sounds like the Citation SS might be the ticket.

 

[WopOnTour]

Nope not me. HaHa. I had a Moto ski Sonic 340 and 245. Never had either one of them on their lid. The twin track......now that was a different story. Lol.

Haha I remember!
The twin tracks had a habit of backing into the corner! LOL
(getting that inner>outer track clutch set up just right wasnt easy)
Where did yours end up??

WopOnTour

 

[Got boost want snow]

could also look for an 75 340 sno jet sst it was free air and worked really well. Could be hard to find. It basically had a detuned thunderjet engine Yamaha powered.

 

[WopOnTour]

could also look for an 75 340 sno jet sst it was free air and worked really well. Could be hard to find. It basically had a detuned thunderjet engine Yamaha powered.

I agree! But as compared to the Blizzards their population was quite low and they are getting very hard to find. We were a Sno-Jet dealer from 1974-80 and used to race SSTs and beat the Blizzards, Zs, TXs and GPXs on the oval track regularly. (well it went back and forth a lot actually lol) The SST had various advantages over each of them. Better carbs and clutching than the GPX, more horsepower than the TXs (although their "specs" were near identical) and could usually out corner the Zs, Blizzards and even the Thunderjets due to the well desgned rubber track (it could handle 300+ needles and not fall apart like many!) and excellent adjustable/tunable rear suspension.
.
We still have a 340 SST F/A in the family and Blake Reid (from snojet.com) I believe has a 440 but I havnt seen too many others around Southern AB. Do you have one or know of any "sitting around" ??
*Below is a photo of me and my 440 SST FA at Wetaskiwin North-Am in 1979 or 80.

One thing though the 340 and 440 free-airs used in the SST are NOT "detuned" as compared to the Thunderjet in ANY way. The engines were identical in all aspects. The 1975 440 had identical VM36 carbs and Cat hex clutching. However the 1974 340 Thunderjet got stuck with the Kehien carbs (like the GPX) while the 75 SST 340 F/A got a pair of VM32 Mikunis (far superior IMO).

Unless of course the GYT kit was installed. But that wasnt stock on the Thunderjets either (as commonly thought) You had to order and install those kits. (I installed many and still have all the books)
The GYT kit came with "special" pistons, cylinders, heads, tuned pipes, and Circle-M fuel injection.But you could could certainly order and put those GYT parts on an SST as well (as we did to run in Mod-Stock) and they would hang "right there" with the Thunderjets. Really the only free-air sleds that would regualarly trounce us on the straightaway (in mod-stock not so much stock) was the Kohler powered 75 Sno-Twisters and the Rupps Nitro F/A Xenoah especially the 440s. (the 340s were a lot more evenly matched)
They were hard to catch, but you could still out-corner/drive them once in a while.

Speaking of which to the OP a 1975 340 Snow Twister or Rupp FA would be another nice find for a "Le Mans" type sled. But again, but also rare and pricey.
WopOnTour

PS> This thread is giving me "flashbacks"

 

[snopro]

Haha I remember!
The twin tracks had a habit of backing into the corner! LOL
(getting that inner>outer track clutch set up just right wasnt easy)
Where did yours end up??

WopOnTour

Caught a bad rut coming out of turn 4 last lap and the inside came up on me and she did a slow roll. All I needed to do was get to the start finish line and I was in the final.We ran way to much carbide down there. Lake ice and flat track is way different than banked homemade ice.HaHa.

 

[Got boost want snow]

My dad was a sno-jet dealer and we have the 340sst and the 74 340 thunderjet he sold. I have a 74 thunderjet with all belmont engineering aluminum shafts and gears. In total my brother, dad and I have 3 thunderjets all 74 340's , 75 sst 340, 76 340 srx and 82 interceptor kind of an addiction.

 

[WopOnTour]

My dad was a sno-jet dealer and we have the 340sst and the 74 340 thunderjet he sold. I have a 74 thunderjet with all belmont engineering aluminum shafts and gears. In total my brother, dad and I have 3 thunderjets all 74 340's , 75 sst 340, 76 340 srx and 82 interceptor kind of an addiction.

Very cool. Where abouts was your Dad's dealership? (might know him)
Got any pics of the Sno-Jets? (old racer porn in my book) Do any of your sleds have NWSA numbers on them still? Or Do you know who raced them?

That 340 SRX is a keeper.
There's a pristine one up for sale onright now for $5000 asking! (dont know if he'll get it but just might)
I battled a handful of 340 SRXs back in the day with my 76 340 Sno-Twister (they were pretty evenly matched actually) But my arch-rival was #200 Doug Brown on a 76 340 SRX. He won the NWSA points crown for "Top Stock" (Stock A) 3 years in a row I believe.
That sled was so well prepped you could eat off it anywhere under the hood.Wonder where it is??
I actually have a 78 SRX 440B that I plan to get going on restoring back to race trim. It's been sitting far too long.

WopOnTour

 

[Puba]

Hey WOT if you come across any 76 twisters, z's 76-78 or an srx let me know. I'm still looking for a chassis to put together for old time...

Very cool. Where abouts was your Dad's dealership? (might know him)
Got any pics of the Sno-Jets? (old racer porn in my book) Do any of your sleds have NWSA numbers on them still? Or Do you know who raced them?

That 340 SRX is a keeper.
There's a pristine one up for sale onright now for $5000 asking! (dont know if he'll get it but just might)
I battled a handful of 340 SRXs back in the day with my 76 340 Sno-Twister (they were pretty evenly matched actually) But my arch-rival was #200 Doug Brown on a 76 340 SRX. He won the NWSA points crown for "Top Stock" (Stock A) 3 years in a row I believe.
That sled was so well prepped you could eat off it anywhere under the hood.Wonder where it is??
I actually have a 78 SRX 440B that I plan to get going on restoring back to race trim. It's been sitting far too long.

WopOnTour

 

[Got boost want snow]

It was called Bellwood Sno-jet and he sold sleds in Grande Prairie Alberta, sold them from 72 through 79 or 80. No numbers left on them and two of them do have the complete gyt kits. The 75 340 sst was almost as fast as the 440 sst and it would out do the 433 gpx in 6 inches of new snow.