quad front tire rollover

[imdoo'n]

wow, had a rollover a couple weeks ago on a ride, left front tire dipped and tire turned and caught instantly, throwing me over the highside, going a little to fast for sure. doofx sent me a link to some tire and suspension set up. very very informative. seems i have been setting the suspension up all friggin wrong, who'da thunk it.


had the shocks(frt, rear) preload on 3rd setting from soft, not a bad ride. the tire pressure about 5psi front n rear. new tires zilla 30x9 front 30x 11 rear.

now these beotches have a soft side wall to begin with, lots of traction and clearance in the mud, but for lack of a better word seemed real twitchy on the trails. turned real easy ride was nice, but would turn sideways instantly on hitting large rocks or stumps etc. what did i do, i turn the front shock preload up a notch, didn't help at all. well upon reading the article, i was doing it wrong, should have been putting more air in front tires (to stiffin up the sidewall) and soften the front spring preload and stiffin up the rear preload. had no idea. thanks doorfx.


so going to set the front tire pressure to 8lbs and leave rear at 5lbs, set front spring preload to 2, and leave rear on 3. see how it handles on the trail. if it still wants to roll under in the front, i may try 2 on front and 4 on rear.


will try a few differnt settings and see.


anyone else have any ideas?

 

[DaveB]

Learn how to ride?

Get rid of AC? (this answer is serious....AC chassis is the WORST for handling at speed...my ol 04 would try to tear the bars out of your hands and go upsidedown at every opportunity)

 

[imdoo'n]

was thinking the same dave, but upon reading the article, may be due to the setting's i had set. going to try it out and just see. was close to the same on the king quad, just not as pronounced. had close to the same settings. will have a better idea this weekend.

 

[LBZ]

I noticed this on my 650 outty with 27" zilla's. i went from 4.5 - 7.5 psi all around and that took care of the issue for me.

 

[imdoo'n]

yes, i can't get the article to show here, but it was suggesting more air in front than rear just to stiffin uo the front tire some. maybe doorfx can get it to post.

 

[Bnorth]

Obviously more air pressure will stop the sidewall folding under but it sacrifices traction and ride quality. I tend to run my tires a tad under inflated for more traction crawling over logs, rocks, stumps etc. Not much mud out here though.

 

[imdoo'n]

Obviously more air pressure will stop the sidewall folding under but it sacrifices traction and ride quality. I tend to run my tires a tad under inflated for more traction crawling over logs, rocks, stumps etc. Not much mud out here though.

as i was doing , 4-5 lbs, but upon reading the thread, they suggest more air in front tires than rear, which loads the rear suspension and helps eliminate the tire from folding in, totally the opposite what i was thinking, will know more this weekend, as i'll experiment. i'm a set it forget it kind of guy.

not saying you right or wrong dave, just maybe playing around with the suspension may have solved some of the steering problems, i will give it a try. makes some sense as my ideas didn't work, friggin still hurts. may also work on the can ams, can't hurt to give it a try. possibly hurt less that's for sure, lol



link is on acrtic chat.com improving-handling


http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/pinned-topics/202823-improving-handling.html
see if i can get the link to work


haha, phuggin puter 0 imdoo'n 1 take that beotch

 

[KWIK RACING INC.]

Yeah doorfx is right.... if your going to be going slow and crawling thru mud holes then a little less air is not bad.. you do get lots of tire roll and when you put more in you get a stiffer sidewall.. therefore you can soften the shocks.. its a bit different when you have fully adjustable shocks thou ( worth every penny imo ) .... i find with my 25" bigs that anything under 7.5 lbs per tire and they bike looses lots of cornering ability... any more and the ride is no good... Even with a bit more air in the tires, it does not matter about traction.. just have to squeeze the throttle a bit.. i have traction then... i think even air in all 4 tires gives you the best handling... at least thats what most racers run... the ones that dont run same pressure only vary it by 1 lbs or so less in the rear..

 

[whoDEANie]

Low air pressure adversely affecting cornering seems like a no brainer to me. 4.5lb for a 30" tire seems quite low to me anyway - I'm surprised you're not blowing beads all the time. However, I' interested to hear that softening the front and hardening the rear suspension would improve cornering - seems counterintuitive. Anyone able to explain how this suspension setup helps with cornering? Does it make it easier to unweight the inside wheels or something?

 

[Bnorth]

Low air pressure adversely affecting cornering seems like a no brainer to me. 4.5lb for a 30" tire seems quite low to me anyway - I'm surprised you're not blowing beads all the time. However, I' interested to hear that softening the front and hardening the rear suspension would improve cornering - seems counterintuitive. Anyone able to explain how this suspension setup helps with cornering? Does it make it easier to unweight the inside wheels or something?

Seems like softening up the front will create less understeer and stiffer rear will allow throttle induced oversteer.

 

[imdoo'n]

Improving handling - ArcticChat.com - Arctic Cat Forum


larry #1

puter 0



finally got it fiqured , take that beotch

 

[doorfx]

Way to go Larry!! It is through a lot of trial and error that I got mine to handle well.
It's all about weight transfer. Read the article that imdoo'n posted, put together by a friend of mine who is a lot wiser than I. The same principles apply that NASCAR uses when you hear words like "push" , loose, under steer and bump steer.
I can concur with kwik on adjustable shocks!! A steering damper and Elka stage 4's have made a huge difference on mine along with an RTR flex bracket that lays the shocks down. I run 28" outlaw mst and I don't think they rut hunt as bad as the zillas?
Flex bracket before the Elka's I ran 3 on rear 1 in front and would put the rear on 4 when bitch riding.

http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/pinned-topics/202823-improving-handling.html

 

[imdoo'n]

guy had a suggestion

says to put 10lbs air in front tires, 4lbs in rears, put the rear suspension on softest and front on hardest, ride in a circle is the steering easy or hard. then reverse air pressure and shock settings, now which steers the easiset and which is harder, interesting concept.

seems the same thing as clutching you need to experiment to find out what works, and not every machine will react the same. man i was doing things backazzwards again.

 

[imdoo'n]

i must say thanks to doorfx great eye opener, as i was thinking like dave, instead of trying some adjustments (the right adjustments). sorry dave not slaggin ya at all.

this site needs to be less beotchin and more helpin.

 

[doorfx]

Learn how to ride?

Get rid of AC? (this answer is serious....AC chassis is the WORST for handling at speed...my ol 04 would try to tear the bars out of your hands and go upsidedown at every opportunity)

A lot of broken frames in 04-650v2's the frame tubing was a bad run of steel and had very thin walls and was not consistent. I watched a vid showing an 04 frame bending like a pretzel under stress. Pretty hard to set up suspension when your frame is spaghetti and top it off with a heavy kawi v2 and you didn't have a hope.
The cats like to have about an 1/8" of toe in as well. Make sure you set your toe in with you or an equivalent weight on the machine

 

[DaveB]

A lot of broken frames in 04-650v2's the frame tubing was a bad run of steel and had very thin walls and was not consistent. I watched a vid showing an 04 frame bending like a pretzel under stress. Pretty hard to set up suspension when your frame is spaghetti and top it off with a heavy kawi v2 and you didn't have a hope.

I know. I had the frame replaced. I have found every quad I've ridden since that machine to handle far better, that's all.

 

[rzrgade]

i have owned a 300 , 400 ,500, 650 Cat, they all have terrible handling...........It`s a cat thing. Changing shocks,tire pressure,the color of your helmet might help or make you feel better,but they are the worst handling quads made and it is in thier geometry.

 

[imdoo'n]

Same said for suzuki, will see this weekend, so stay tuned to the on going saga


if ya read the thread the guy claims it makes a big difference,

 

[KWIK RACING INC.]

You can only do what you can to your bike but it is nice when you can get a bike with a frame that is set up for performance handling and cornering...
What Neville said is quite correct... All aftermarket shocks will lower your bike by 1 inch... thats just the way it is... thats why i did not buy aftermarket shocks but sent my KYB's to New York to get them to totally rework the shocks and now i have as good as the best out there but still keep my oringal ride height.. it was more expensive to do that but money well spent for the places we ride plus i run already a small tire on the machine...

that said, another thing that helps greatly in cornering is the lower to the ground you are the better it is of course for cornering and handling...
a quad with a high centre of gravity and a non performance geometry on the frame is limited to get it better although some can be acheved....

Like DoorFx said about himself.. i myself had Elka stage 4's with a stabilizer and also flexx bars with a anti- vibe stem on my 07 and now of course i dont need the stabilizer but still run the same on my 10... the arm pump and fitugue are cut in half and you can actually ride alot faster without trying hard at all..

To set the front shocks to a low postion on the shock would just make the quad dive very hard and is acutually dangerous with diving the front end all the time.
Fully adjustable shock dont get adjusted soft in the front and stiff in the back.. they are about equal with minor small adjustments for hi/low and rebound... all set after you set the ride height or sag as they call it... aftermarket shock usaually always will come as a dual or triple spring set up and the springs are for your weight, not just a generic spring...

At the jamboree, if there is anybody with fully adjustable shocks ( thats shocks that have ride height, hi and low compression and rebound ) that dont think they are set right for ya and need some explaination on them... feel free to see me and we can set them up for you. you mite have to do a few minor adjustments to them, but that will be up to you..

 

[doorfx]

i have owned a 300 , 400 ,500, 650 Cat, they all have terrible handling...........It`s a cat thing. Changing shocks,tire pressure,the color of your helmet might help or make you feel better,but they are the worst handling quads made and it is in thier geometry.

What year was the newest one?