sledhead800
Active VIP Member
Getting a turbo for the first time going to be a boondocker pump gas set up just like to know what would be better an intercooler or No intercooler....thanks...
New Turbo
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4mcntrls
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I have ridden both I can't really tell the difference if you get your clutching set up. Charge temps are cooler with the mini intercooler and fan setup.
sirkdev
Active VIP Member
I have 1 with and 1 with out an intercooler, I can't really tell the difference except throttle response, non intercooler is quicker.
I have both for sale 2009's 153 and a 162 ready to mountain ride needs nothing. looking for around $13000 ea. save yourself sometime and money and buy one already setup. Both work very well. May consider trades of anything of interest as well
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sledhead800
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sorry there buddy just got a new 2010 m8 162, i heard that the intercooler is about 10 to 15% more horsepower......
sirkdev
Active VIP Member
Well I will tell you that I am not putting an intercooler on my new build thats for sure. I think they are more practical on road vehicle where consistent throttle is applied. You need throttle response on a mountain sled and the intercooler seems to slow it down significantly. (extra volume of piping)
There is many opinions on this and I can understand that it should realistically make more power but several builders I have talked to just don't see any actual benefits. When you have 230 ish HP + or - 10 hp is nothing vs stock like throttle response.
POWDERCHOWDER
Active VIP Member
yah i herd that non intercooler is better for boon docken, and for that reason throttle respo
but 10-15% on a 220 hp sled is 20-30 hp, and that's a big difference.
4mcntrls
Active VIP Member
A race gas turbo maybe 10-15% but I don't think you will get near that on a pump gasser.
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sledhead800
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Got this on code red performance About using an intercooler on your BoonDocker turbo system:
As with any engine, the more air you can feed your turbo equipped engine the more fuel you can add and the more power you can make. 2 factors effect how much air your turbo system equipped engine gets:
* Boost pressure. The more boost pressure you run the more air you force into the engine and the more power you produce.
* Air density. The colder the air, the more dense it becomes. The denser the air, the more your engine can use on a given combustion cycle and the more power you produce.
As turbo systems increase boost, the temperature of the intake air increases (following the laws of physics). At certain boost levels this rise in temperature becomes dramatic. An intercooler mounts between your turbo and your engine and lowers intake temperatures, allowing the air to become more dense.
For example, lets take a test 800cc engine, running 8200 RPM, at 8000 ft elevation, and 32° ambient air temp.
If we take our test engine and boost it 8 psi, with a reasonable turbo compressor efficiency of 72%, our compressor temp rise would be 116 ° added that to our ambient air temp of 32°, we would have a charge air temp of 148° and make approximately 194.7 HP.
Now if we were to add an intercooler that is 60% efficient, our charge air temp would drop 70° leaving us with a charge air temp of 78° and make approximately 220.1 HP, a 13% HP gain.
Let’s take our test sled and bump it up to 15 psi. If we use the same compressor efficiency of 72% our compressor temp rise would be 185° added to our ambient air temp of 32°, we would have a charge air temp of 217° and make approximately 239.6 HP. (at this kind of charge air temp you would most like experience detonation)
Now if we were to add an intercooler that is 60% effective, our charge air temps would drop 111° leaving us with a charge air temp of 106° and make approximately 286.6 HP, a 20% HP gain, and no detonation.
As with any engine, the more air you can feed your turbo equipped engine the more fuel you can add and the more power you can make. 2 factors effect how much air your turbo system equipped engine gets:
* Boost pressure. The more boost pressure you run the more air you force into the engine and the more power you produce.
* Air density. The colder the air, the more dense it becomes. The denser the air, the more your engine can use on a given combustion cycle and the more power you produce.
As turbo systems increase boost, the temperature of the intake air increases (following the laws of physics). At certain boost levels this rise in temperature becomes dramatic. An intercooler mounts between your turbo and your engine and lowers intake temperatures, allowing the air to become more dense.
For example, lets take a test 800cc engine, running 8200 RPM, at 8000 ft elevation, and 32° ambient air temp.
If we take our test engine and boost it 8 psi, with a reasonable turbo compressor efficiency of 72%, our compressor temp rise would be 116 ° added that to our ambient air temp of 32°, we would have a charge air temp of 148° and make approximately 194.7 HP.
Now if we were to add an intercooler that is 60% efficient, our charge air temp would drop 70° leaving us with a charge air temp of 78° and make approximately 220.1 HP, a 13% HP gain.
Let’s take our test sled and bump it up to 15 psi. If we use the same compressor efficiency of 72% our compressor temp rise would be 185° added to our ambient air temp of 32°, we would have a charge air temp of 217° and make approximately 239.6 HP. (at this kind of charge air temp you would most like experience detonation)
Now if we were to add an intercooler that is 60% effective, our charge air temps would drop 111° leaving us with a charge air temp of 106° and make approximately 286.6 HP, a 20% HP gain, and no detonation.
sirkdev
Active VIP Member
I agree that is a big difference, may have something to do with setup (amount of piping) and this particular application.
All in it sounds ideal.
Yeah these theoretical #'s are great but let's see a dyno graph of an 800 at 15 psi making almost 300 HP.....LOL
maxwell
Active VIP Member
the other thing about an intercooler is that if it doesnt have constant airflow over it ( climbing a chute vs slow boondocking in the trees) it can become more of an air heater than a cooler. meaning that you may not notice it simply because you are not always moving at a deecent rate of speed.
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sledhead800
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I am going to go with no intercooler because i do alot off tree banging boondocking like sirkdev said u need throttle response so and that what i am looking for and less heat to so....i am going with the pump gas turbo with no intercooler, would my stock head work with this set up my sled is a 2010 or would i have to put a 2009 head on it, i got vforce reeds in the sled, i don't think they would hold up to the turbo what would be the best reeds for this set up
,thanks alot guys for helping me out
Its still going to have turbo lag, just putting it out there for the first time you decide to pound it through the trees, expect it might not be as responsive as the stocker LOL
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
2009 head. Compressions too high on the 2010 for pump gas boosted.
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- #16
sledhead800
Active VIP Member
Can u put a after market head like rkt or cpc something like that or the stock 2009 head would be just as good.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
kelsey at rkt will hook you up with a head. dan davidoff runs a rkt on his turbo cat
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- #18
sledhead800
Active VIP Member
What would be the best reeds to go with?
Mayfly
Active member
Talking with Dale Cutler, he suggested to stick with stock reeds.
Stock reeds will work just fine. If you are looking for more responsiveness i have had great success with TDR reeds. They will handle the boost like a stocker but give a much increased throttle response like a carbon fibre and not nearly as expensive.
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