To spur the pipeline debate

[Bogger]

In the world of business, decisions are made on fesability and bottom line, this goes for big oil as well as manufacturing. If you were the guy responsible to provide quarterly reports to investors and had to decide whether to build your refinery in Canada VS Venuzuela you would not hold that position long if you chose 4% margins in Canada over 44% margins elsewhere. ideally everyone would enjoy our lifestyle no matter where one lived but it can not be, we can't have our cake and eat it too. If manufactured goods were produced globally at Canadian standards (labor/environmental/sefety) EVERYTHING we buy would cost much more and all of a sudden those 6-figures would not go nearly as far.

The only way for a new refinery project to be economically feasible within our society is if the government were to subsidize it, otherwise why would a company choose to build here at x-times the capital investment. When you chose a stock to invest in you are hoping for the greatest return on your investment and if you had to choose between an oil stock with anual returns of 20% versus 4% is your conscience that strong????

When you speak of the "Big Oil" profiting billions of dollars who exactly do you think "Big Oil" is???? it's me, you, and millions of other investors with investment dollars contributed looking for a positive return, the bigger the better. It's the same arguement as the gas price debate, the raw material is traded on the global market, it is refined for profit and distributed to suppliers. the biggest differential between our pump prices and those of other countries are 1. transportation and distribution costs (terminal workers, truckers, mechanics, dispatchers, etc.. all at Canadian wages living a canadian lifestyle) 2. Taxes 3. profitablility (a gas bar makes a larger profit on pop and chips than fuel)

It is what it is, personally I think if we truely want to be forward thinking we let china & the US go hard on the oil so long as we are getting fair market value for the raw materials and we concentrate on the future of our fresh water reserves.... a liter of water will soon be worth much more than a liter of gasoline or diesel...

Are you saying that labor in Canada is so expensive that a refinery here is financially not worth it?
Are you talking about 1st class power engineer's making 100k a year?I dont know anyone with a 4th
or 3rd that makes close to that around my area.(maybe other area's pay alot more?)
An old guy I know retired from a local refinery here in 1986,he was making well over 80k at that time.
Do you know what oil was going for in the mid 80's?Not much.(20-30% of today)
Was his wage breaking the refinery?Not a chance.Today's companies are making billions of NET profits
in every single quarter and they still strive for more.(they used to be happy with 10% of that)
The main reason for my rant is that IMO it isnt the overpaid workers that is making Canada uncompetative
in the global market,it's the corporations that arent happy unless they have 10 figure profit margins.

 

[rzrgade]

Lets be honest willlly, you have put worse chit in your body than a little sweet crude................

 

[ferniesnow]

a liter of water will be worth nothing... if its full of oil 0.o

Who says, "We are going to have oil in the water?"

 

[Bogger]

Sorry I got off track... people began posting about refining our own raw material (which I don't see how this solves the pipeline debate because the product needs to be moved whether it be raw or refined) and then commenting on gas prices etc... kinda got away from the pipeline debate I just think that many of us have been raised in a wealthy society and take a lot of chit for granted. when considering resololutions you need to look at all aspects not just "whats in it for me"

As for oil in our water I'll admit there is that risk when it comes to pipelines but it reminds me of that picture of the little 3rd world kid saying "are you telling me you have so much clean water you chit in it????"

I would still argue that transporting crude by truck is more environmentally taxing (big picture) than a pipeline especially with todays technology and the ability to set pipe lines with auto-shut down sensors every "X" m, a resulting spill would more than likely have no larger impact than a semi in a highway ditch. at the volumes they are looking to transport the truck traffic required, diesel required, manpower required etc... explain why we pay so much for a product which is mined right here.[

I realize my previous rant does not speak to the shipping issue at the end of the pipeline to which the only reasonable solution would be to re-route the line, carry on to prince rupert where the shipping lanes make navigation much simpler.

a liter of water will be worth nothing... if its full of oil 0.o

 

[rzrgade]

yer on crack .

Sorry, at this particular time in my life i have no interest in financialy supporting any of your home based enterprizes in and around the Nelson area..............

 

[bigz64]

its funny after reading the entire article, the comments at the bottom of the cbc page... its like people dont even read the article and post their ch!t-speak, damn intitled society we live in now

and im very suprised this article was even on cbc, usually they are more socialist thinking

i just hope i can build my super compound out in the forest before it all hits the fan

 

[frock]

I think most third class guys are over 100k if not close to it. Kick your ticket up a notch you will be a happier guy a fourth class doesn't mean as much anymore unless your young and just starting out.
Tb

The plant I work at the 3rds can make over twice that.

 

[Toyboy]

The plant I work at the 3rds can make over twice that.

Where do you work? I'm looking for a new job.
Tb

 

[ryan#1]

Sorry I got off track... people began posting about refining our own raw material (which I don't see how this solves the pipeline debate because the product needs to be moved whether it be raw or refined) and then commenting on gas prices etc... kinda got away from the pipeline debate I just think that many of us have been raised in a wealthy society and take a lot of chit for granted. when considering resololutions you need to look at all aspects not just "whats in it for me"

As for oil in our water I'll admit there is that risk when it comes to pipelines but it reminds me of that picture of the little 3rd world kid saying "are you telling me you have so much clean water you chit in it????"

I would still argue that transporting crude by truck is more environmentally taxing (big picture) than a pipeline especially with todays technology and the ability to set pipe lines with auto-shut down sensors every "X" m, a resulting spill would more than likely have no larger impact than a semi in a highway ditch. at the volumes they are looking to transport the truck traffic required, diesel required, manpower required etc... explain why we pay so much for a product which is mined right here.[

I realize my previous rant does not speak to the shipping issue at the end of the pipeline to which the only reasonable solution would be to re-route the line, carry on to prince rupert where the shipping lanes make navigation much simpler.

The lower Skeena would be quite the pipeline route (some seriously rugged terrain) not to mention the risks of 150km pipeline along side one of the worlds most productive river system and estuary. The existing PNG line has had many issues over the years. I don't see this one going...IMO the risk on navigating the Douglas is less than the risk of pipelining the lower skeena.

I agree trucks make zero sense...long term costs, fuel burn, safety...not to mention the shipping (just the trucks alone) cost would be insane...say $25/barrel from Ft Mac (8-10K for 45-50tonnes)? Maybe less if they pipelined it closer.

I don't know enough about it and maybe someone could clarify...doesn't it make more sense to piggy back on the existing pipeline into Burnaby? There's already a pipeline and tanker trafffic in the port of Vancouver.

 

[Bogger]

Somehow something will be worked out...

You remind me of my ex wife, when you disagree with something it's simply "NO" as opposed to trying to come up with workable solutions to challenges.

Somehow the product distibution network NEEDS to be extended and upgraded, especially now that Kuwait's national oil coop today committed $4B to oilsands investment.

with enbridges safety record , they wont be moving oil at all .

 

[Bogger]

I believe that we will never run out of oil.... because eventually newer technologies will replace the use of oil as a fuel among other uses and the demand will greatly decrease. There will always be a demand however I do believe that 50 years from now the demand will be much less.... there are over 100 years worth of bitumen based on 5 million barrels a day (Which we are no where close to yet, 3M per day is expected by 2015). Why not put the infastructure in place now to take advantage of the market demand to bolster the economy.

Remember technologies come and go quickly... we rely heavily on oil and other fossil fules right now but I do believe that the R&D on alternate power sources does not get nearly the attention nor funding it should (some would claim "big oil" is behind this but who knows)

Household batteries were not available until 1959
Lithium batteries were not available until 1992
Solar power has only been around since the 80's

Humans will continue find resolutions to problems based on priority... at this point in time we have 100 years worth of oil production which we might as well use to benefit our economy/quality of life.

You can't stop progress (or regress depending on your point of view) so as a country/society/race we might as well try to figure out responsible solutions to try and ballance progress vs. quality of life...

so what are u saying ??? u dont want to leave any oil for yer kids and their kids... just sell it all for the all mighty dollar eh ?

So no...what I'm saying is that if everyone held your level of compromise progress would hault and eventually someone would gain access to the oil sands through cooperation or force...

 

[rzrgade]

I would love to debate that with you...............But the "Nature of things" Rerun marathon is about to start and i would not miss it for the world...................

 

[rzrgade]

I am sure he taught you every thing you "think" you know.................

 

[Bogger]

The Tyee – Enbridge's Kalamazoo Disaster: Straight from the Files sounds like enbridge has 12 year olds working for them ... and "u Albertans" want us to let yer dirty oil thru BC ??? this is just another reason the pipeline wont happen

Thank god BC has you to represent against "US"....

I kind of agreed with some of your recent posts...but now it's confirmed it was just a fluke...your such a fawktard....

I wanna see Richelle kick your azz

 

[Pinner]

From willy's link:

Line 6b ruptured at 5:58 pm EDT on Sunday, July 25, 2010. During the next 17 hours, personnel at Enbridge’s Control Center (ECC) in Edmonton, Alberta, some 1,500 miles away, failed to recognize that they had a spill. Control center staff restarted the line twice during the overnight shift, pumping about 683,000 gallons of diluted bitumen, in addition to the dilbit which was spilled during the initial rupture.

These pipeline companies are their own worst enemy, unfortunately it's a common practice restart pumps when they go down on low pressure. You guys in the biz know it.

Is it possible to pipeline through that much rock and cross 1600 water crossings and keep the pipe's corrosion coating intact despite the certainty of rock slides, washouts, and earthquakes... ? How long can tanker traffic safely navigate the 100 km long treacherous jagged fjords that connect Kitamat with the west coast ? (Look up the Exxon Valdez spill)

The pipeline responsible for recent spill into the Red Deer River only had a shut off on one side of the river...WTF ?

I don't think the pipeline industry deserves the trust needed to cross that many watersheds and that much Salmon habitat, not yet anyway. They Fawked themselves and the oil companies, don't blame the people of BC.

 

[DRD]

I think it's possible to build the line safely and deal with tanker traffic. The catch is it won't be cheap but oil companies are.

 

[bigz64]

we just need that oil producing algea to work! they are on the right track but years away from extracting usable oil that can be refined from this plant.

 

[frock]

Where do you work? I'm looking for a new job.
Tb

Pine River Gas Plant

 

[JaySimon]

Might raise the price of gas?

So, why should anybody be stoked on this?

 

[eclipse1966]

how do they expect the refinery to absorb the increase when all along we have been told that refining oil is a very low margin business.

Might raise the price of gas?

So, why should anybody be stoked on this?