powder dreams
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eric whats your goal with the gearing? are you doing much with clutching to work with the gearing?
SlimeR HDC Alpha
- Thread starter E-Zmoke
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- #82
Yes clutching will be changed as required with the gearing changes, I’ll be going with an adjustable weight right away and trying to keep the rpms betweeen 7850-7950 while testing the different combos. I’m going to put the 911 cover on as well. For the secondary I’d like to leave the straight helix in for now as I do personally like it for the trees but it may have to be switched to obtain my end goal. I’ll know right away as my secondary will prob max out with the straight helix. I may have to just part ways with the secondary all together for something better...
Essentially utilizing the clutches and making them more efficient, and to increase the track speed is the end goal. The stock gearing is 19/50 = 2.63 which is a very high 1-1 to achieve, with the large drivers you will need to hit 70MPH track speeds to hit full shift that’s just not going to happen in the deep on this sled or any sled for that matter unless your running some boost. Low 40+ MPH track speeds is what the Alpha will hit stock, which isn’t bad but It’s only using 60% of the clutches. Lots left on the table here. I’m hoping for high 40’s and would be super happy to hit the 50 mark! 10mph track speed increase would just be the cats ass meowwww
Perhaps Mr. KaneDog will chime in here as he’s way better at explaining the clutching thing then I am, he has been through all of this and is running a super ultra low combo on his Cat. It’s KaneDog’s idea and knowledge of clutching that has steered me into this direction.
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I can’t remember who posted about the fuel line rubbing on the steering support but thank you! The steering support is super sharp and the fuel line is in direct contact with it!! I cut a piece of hose and slid it over top of the fuel line. I’m not sure if this will be an issue going forward, if it will actually rub through the fuel line or not but I wasn’t taking any chances, the pull cord rubs on the backside of the fuel line as well so the hose overtop stops contact against the fuel line in two places. Highly recommend this 2min $0 fix
skegpro
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If leaving the clutching stock what would you recommend for gearing changes?
- Thread starter
- #85
If you change the gearing you should change your clutching, even if it’s just adding weight to the primary if you gear it down your RPMS will be a littler higher and you want to run this engine under 8000
You could gear it down to a 52 bottom gear I believe a couple others were saying they were going to try the 52 gear from the king cat as that would put you at 19/52 = 2.73 ratio only downside is it would require a new chain
kanedog
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I can’t take credit for the ideas though. Duane Watt, inventor of Paragon Clutch and the 911 cover is who taught me. I’d call him every time after sledding and he would spend 1-3hrs on the phone coaching me to tune. I was stubborn at times but he stuck with me. So thankful.
I like how how you explained it EZ. Especially how you describe only 40% of the clutch is being used. The more clutch used, the better.
Keep in mind, an old school Cat clutch, Pro-4 or Stm or a paragon will make the low gear setup perform 30% better. A team, Cat or skidoo are 2 roller clutches and they have some performance hindering characteristics.
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Bnorth
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Didn't realize this was still an issue after the 2018's thanks for sharing.
dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
19/52 works amazingly well. Peak HP is 8100 RPM. Clutch to 8150 to 8200. Your leaving power on the table if you clutch to 7800-7900.
dragonweld28
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P.S Kanedogs clutching is complete farse.
skegpro
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You loosing any bottom end?
More worried about tree riding that climbing.
Bnorth
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I find the alpha a little "zingy" on the bottom. Engine is revving and sled isn't doing much, reminds me of stock pre-T3 XM.
skegpro
Active VIP Member
I find it engages really low, which I like, takes a bit for rpms to come up, but once your moving and in and out of the throttle I find the bottom end very strong.
Can you discribe when you feel the zingyness?
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
basically right off engagement. The sled is moving but the throttle doesn't feel very connected to the track until you're making a little more rpm
skegpro
Active VIP Member
Yeah I agree, I guess that comes with the low engagement?
A high engagement definitely hits harder.
I wonder if there are gains to be main in this department.......
dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
I have clutching that will fix that.. lol. Thats what stiff secondary springs and a straight helix do...
skegpro
Active VIP Member
What's in the kit exactly.
Price?
dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
New primary spring, secondary spring, multi angle helix and a set of adjustable weights. $495 plus GST
skegpro
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Ok let me see if I can get a primary that isn't cracked and we will try this out.
kanedog
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Come on now Benny. Haha. This was my first time out and I made incorrect changes based on memory from 6 months ago. And I smoke weed! I went too far with the primary weight. Went from 9.65g to 10.9. Primary was being the being the boss and yanking open the secondary basically climbing in 4th gear dragging the rpm down from 7900 down to 7100 on a climb. You woulda heard that if you were listening. That wasn’t me on/off the throttle cuz was the engine cutting in and out. It would pop and fart and rpm’s were erratic. The setup is super sensitive and 3/10 of a gram will make or break how the clutching works. As you saw, I tried clickers, gear change, secondary spring pressure change to help the clutch backshift. I did what I could with what I had. All was in the wrong direction as I needed to take out pin weight but clutch master bag was in the truck.
So imagine if you went to a unfamiliar area, had too soft of a secondary spring, didn’t have a replacement on the hill, did the best you could on other parts of the system, it didn’t work but you manned up and rode and climbed anyway. You then ate crow and your buddy said your clutching is a farce. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. You had a bad clutching day and I posted that all your clutching is a farce. Don’t forget that.
Remember how we met? As a complete stranger, I called you out of the blue I shared my experience and inside knowledge about some suppliers you were dealing with? I did that to help, support and elevate you, not bring you down.
I do deserve a huge amount of harassment though. Bring it on, I can take it.
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dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
Well, not sure what response you we're expecting. When you claim to be a turbo killer and it can even beat a stock sled, thats a complete farse to me. Regardless of tuning. Secondly, I never asked for any advice or extra help from in regards to certain suppliers, or support. I had done all my homework and knew what I was getting myself into.
That sled has a ways to go to compete with stock sleds.... i will remind you, this was a 154 3" vs a 174 3" and it was considerably slower. Niners Alpha is way further ahead of that and then his turbo is miles further than both sleds.
Unfamiliar area has nothing to do with it. Either it works or doesn't. And the most important part... I have never bragged that my clutching would beat turbos.
I think your an awesome, and enjoyable person, but the clutching your preaching is way off.
That sled has a ways to go to compete with stock sleds.... i will remind you, this was a 154 3" vs a 174 3" and it was considerably slower. Niners Alpha is way further ahead of that and then his turbo is miles further than both sleds.
Unfamiliar area has nothing to do with it. Either it works or doesn't. And the most important part... I have never bragged that my clutching would beat turbos.
I think your an awesome, and enjoyable person, but the clutching your preaching is way off.
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