Rider out of bounds - What would you do?

[fargineyesore]

I have problem with this. National parks have been off limits for years, if you don't know this, where the h--- have you been. All of the clubs that have groomed trails have management agreements with forestry. These can be pulled at anytime, if you as a sledder are accessing the park using the trail, it could be seen as a way of stopping this by pulling the agreement. THERE GOES ANOTHER AREA. My point here is NATIONAL PARKS have been off limits for years. Wave them over and be a good citizen for our sport and let them know they are in an out of bounds posted area.
We need everyones help to keep playing in the areas that we have left.
Don't make it harder for us to keep them.
THANK'S IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP.
PACK OUT WHAT YOU PACK IN.

I know that Nat parks are off limits, as are Provincial Parks in Alberta. What I said was riding in a closed area because not sure of where the Boundary is. As I said, anyone can make a mistake as to a boundary location. That is different than deliberately riding in a closed area. I don't think anyone here has said they're going to deliberately do that, so I think most are on the same page in that regard.

 

[sumx54]

Ignorance is NOT an accuse

 

[NosRX1]

I know that Nat parks are off limits, as are Provincial Parks in Alberta. What I said was riding in a closed area because not sure of where the Boundary is. As I said, anyone can make a mistake as to a boundary location. That is different than deliberately riding in a closed area. I don't think anyone here has said they're going to deliberately do that, so I think most are on the same page in that regard.

I understand what farineyesore is saying as this has happen to me on occasion, once sledding the other hunting. There are signs posted fair enough but they are not posted every 10 feet apart. While sledding first year ever riding a sled I crossed into an out of bounds area, another sledder made me aware of the signs and what they mean, and gave me a rough idea on where the border runs. I thanked him for it I didn't intentionally break the rules it just happen and now I know.
The other time while sheep hunting we were in hot pursuit of a couple of Rams in the mountains and before we knew it we were in a National park it was a rainy day and in places those signs are spread apart 400-500 yards and if your not care it is very easy to cross with out knowing.

 

[bbtoys]

Ignorance is NOT an accuse

They will not accept this as an excuss, tryed and tested, judge doesn't care. Hammer comes down, $658.00 please, pay now, time to pay or jail. Your choice, which will it be sir.

 

[All4Traction]

It comes down to the responsibility of the rider to know where they are allowed ride, most of you guys hit it right on the head, ignorance is no excuse.

It does happen accidently, thats why a quick warning by other sledders is nice, but you must show due diligence that you did everything possible to be in compliance.

If some one tells me to F-off, I'm gonna report them. I dont want to loose more riding areas because of people riding in closed areas.

We all get painted with the same brush.

 

[Modman]

.....I've got no use for a bunch of holier than thou, self-righteous rats either. There has to be a better way. Perhaps if the sledding (and quadding) community started standing up for itself and challenging some of these closures in court (we could all chip in for the court battle) instead of quaking in fear all the time of what "might happen" some wouldn't be so quick to start calling the authorities. I wonder if those of you that have said you're going to call the feds have the guts to tell the other sledder that to their face. In my experience, usually you don't.

I was going to ask the same question as Rucky. Where exactly do you ride that isn't part of a maintained trail system and how many times a year do you ride areas with potential to be (or that have been) closed by riders crossing the boundaries? How many petitions have you personally started to keep riding areas open or re-opened? How many court hearings/appeals have you attended to keep riding areas open?

Yes, I have approached other sledders, which is why I am of the opinion that I am (unfortunately ). I won't ride out of bounds to try and catch someone that is riding there intentionally or unintentionally. As evidenced last year in Revy, the Ministry of Environment staff have ticketed riders in areas where the boundaries were not clearly defined and there were previous discussions indicating that no citations would be issued until the boundaries were clearly defined and the land use of the area agreed upon. This went out the window and riders were ticketed in this area. Ask Powder Puff how long the Revy club has been fighting to keep riding areas open due to caribou closures/development pressure/tenure areas/etc. Still think that we are "quaking in fear" about what might happen? It's already here, it's been here for a while.

You say that sledders should stand up for ourselves, I think this is exactly what we are doing. I disagree with fighting it in court though, I feel that we should be proactive instead of reactive. Once an area is closed and we are on the defensive to have it re-opened, it is lost to us. We will have more riding areas open in the future if we fight for them now and stand up for ourselves now, rather than wait until they are closed and then try and have them re-opened. I think that sledders replying on this thread have demonstrated they are willing to stand up for themselves/ourselves by demonstrating what we would do to keep riding areas open. I love the statement above of "Ignorance is not an excuse."

If we are not careful, the price we will all pay for this ignorance will be the closure of our riding areas and mountain terrain to enjoy our sport on.

These are just my thoughts/opinions on things. Look forward, not backward. I think the discussion is great. It gets people talking about it at least and brings awareness to the issue.

 

[Billy Boy]

Could'nt agree with you more Modman, unfortunately we are under the microscope called public perception and weather it is right or wrong the public perception of sledders and quadders is not that good at the moment. So all I can say is that we as sledders and quadders have to do everything possible to show that we can participate in our sport in a responsible manner. I know a lot of folks that have worked there butts off to keep an area open or to establish a proper trail system and to see that all go done the drain because someone can't quite figure out that not riding responsibly can get a riding area closed down fast; no questions asked.

Billy Boy

 

[Modman]

Well aren't we all a bunch of good citizens,...... after all ,sledders didn't close these areas ,it was someone with a agenda of there own.

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/5/forester-creek-radium-area-9734-2.html#post224402
A good read about how riding out of bounds is affecting one of our local riding areas (contrary to some people's opinions).

 

[fargineyesore]

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/5/forester-creek-radium-area-9734-2.html#post224402
A good read about how riding out of bounds is affecting one of our local riding areas (contrary to some people's opinions).

My only issue is that some people just said that they'd just phone the cops instead of trying to show someone that was out of bounds that they were in fact out of bounds. Then I get the convenient response, "ignorance is not an excuse." Well the fact of the matter is, all of us have gotten mixed up as to where we are at times, and if you haven't, good for you. I know I'd never report someone without first trying to show them that they are out of bounds. Maybe that attitude is why many people don't want to join clubs.

 

[All4Traction]

I found my GPS very useful for determining boundaries this weekend when riding in quartz. I did go past one sign by a few meters, but it was still well away from the actual location of the protected area on my GPS.

 

[fargineyesore]

I found my GPS very useful for determining boundaries this weekend when riding in quartz. I did go past one sign by a few meters, but it was still well away from the actual location of the protected area on my GPS.

That's a good idea. I always bring my GPS when sledding or quadding, so I'll have to do some planning before I go and get some waypoints and maps prior to going out. Hopefully the area I go to will have that info available.

 

[Powder Puff]

I guess I better say that in the cases we have caught riders in closed areas they have rode right past signs (actually could have spit on them) and then they tell us they had no idea it was a closed area. These areas have been closed each season and for a long time. There are 4x8 signs at the trail heads, at locations along the access trails and in the cabins informing riders about the closed areas. The club also marks borders with signs that we provide, install, maintain and then take down each season. The club produces and distributes brochures at trailheads, snow shows and business`s here that see snowmobilers. Club volunteers patrol the borders each season during closure periods. The club pays for fuel, jackets and provides courses (avalance/first aid/safety) for the volunteers each season. This all part of the deal to keep these areas open to snowmobiling.
Non-compliance is reported with riders tracks, so you don`t actually have to be caught to have us all painted with that brush again.

Lots of areas are being closed now when MoSTA gives tenure holders exclusive rights to an area with what they call a "section 58". Once it starts in an area how many tenured operators will want the same deal? How many areas will be closed to the general public? Here it is the club again dealing with these issues.

I think anyone who does snowmobile and would like to continue snowmobiling should be joining their local club`s or a club in an area that they do like to ride. We really are stronger in numbers. Once an area is closed that`s it.

 

[fargineyesore]

I guess I better say that in the cases we have caught riders in closed areas they have rode right past signs (actually could have spit on them) and then they tell us they had no idea it was a closed area. These areas have been closed each season and for a long time. There are 4x8 signs at the trail heads, at locations along the access trails and in the cabins informing riders about the closed areas. The club also marks borders with signs that we provide, install, maintain and then take down each season. The club produces and distributes brochures at trailheads, snow shows and business`s here that see snowmobilers. Club volunteers patrol the borders each season during closure periods. The club pays for fuel, jackets and provides courses (avalance/first aid/safety) for the volunteers each season. This all part of the deal to keep these areas open to snowmobiling.
Non-compliance is reported with riders tracks, so you don`t actually have to be caught to have us all painted with that brush again.

Lots of areas are being closed now when MoSTA gives tenure holders exclusive rights to an area with what they call a "section 58". Once it starts in an area how many tenured operators will want the same deal? How many areas will be closed to the general public? Here it is the club again dealing with these issues.

I think anyone who does snowmobile and would like to continue snowmobiling should be joining their local club`s or a club in an area that they do like to ride. We really are stronger in numbers. Once an area is closed that`s it.

Excellent points, and good info. When areas are marked as well as you note above, then I agree that there is no excuse to be there. You make a good case to be part of a local club, as in the case of your club, obviously a lot of good things are done by it. Here in Alberta, in the case of crown lands, unless it is a Park (although some types of Parks such as Wildland Parks allow snowmobiling) the leaseholder usually can't deny access in the wintertime. Sounds like you have even more challenges in your area than here.

I am in the Ardrossan area (just east of Edmonton) and most of my riding is locally, north in the crown land areas, and when I'm lucky I get to go to the mountains (maybe twice a year). We have challenges here with Strathcona County (hate sledders) as well.

Thanks for an intelligent argument rather than a sanctimonious rant, as I will now seriously consider looking into the local club around here.

NOW WE NEED SOME DAMN SNOW!!!!!