New home build costs wow.

[S.W.A.T.]

I am glad to hear you went 8" below ground though, i've heard far too many going with 6" which is just a disaster waiting to happen.

knowing nothing about construction other than what would make sense that 8" is bigger so it should be stronger, could you please explain this?

 

[rknight111]

As far as insulation, if you have stucco, you already likely have 2" outside, which is as good or better then the insulation for ICF outside.

I disagree with your comment. Stucco offers no thermal break between the exterior elements and the interior framing/surfaces, where as either adding a layer of Styrofoam or using the ICF offer excellent thermal barriers.

One thing that I remembered from when we were looking at using ICF. They had a picture of a stick framed and a ICF house from a FLIR thermal imager camera.
You could see every stud and gap in the insulation on the stick house, and the ICF was just like ambient color almost no heat loss thru the walls.

You are correct ST.

I am a certified lvl 2 thermographer, I am involved with many building envelope failures with insurance companies, property managers, engineers, home and business owners. I am also a Red seal Journeyman Carpenter and hold a Certified Indoor Environmental designation, CIEC with 34 years construction experience. I spend approximately 5 hours per day looking at building issues, I don't see much with ICF buildings except for some air management issues, which are easily figured out. Not as much for the newer builds though. I see a lot of issues with stucco buildings, especially the new ones with the acrylic stucco. You see many of them that are having issues with water staining, those all need fixed now and every spring you see scaffolding going up all over on these buildings. I been involved in some pretty large projects. One elementary school around 7 years ago I was the environmental consultant on the entire exterior envelope was failing, mould everywhere, school was 10 years old, after we were finished the building was brought down to skeleton including roof. Construction in the last 20 years is terrible, and with prices rising so fast on items many shortcuts will be done.

Today, I was at home depot looking at wire they have good price on rolls, max 4 per person. I think it was $228 for 150 M that price seems decent for today, I bought that same roll for 1/2 the price in the fall last year. Now going to start stocking up on everything as the prices are truly nuts and they wont be coming down.
Almost thinking I should keep going with the ICF to the bottom of the trusses, my foundation walls are 6" thick as they are only 4' tall, I would have additional engineering if I go to the roof and would most likely have to make the walls 8".

 

[Cyle]

knowing nothing about construction other than what would make sense that 8" is bigger so it should be stronger, could you please explain this?

A 6" concrete wall is just not strong enough to resist the pressure from the ground and will buckle. Other then ICF, I have never seen a 6" concrete foundation wall, many 8" walls buckle if the ground gets too wet and the quality of work wasn't the best, hence why many foundations will crack right at grade level. 6" would be fine for anything above the main floor.

 

[Cyle]

One thing that I remembered from when we were looking at using ICF. They had a picture of a stick framed and a ICF house from a FLIR thermal imager camera.
You could see every stud and gap in the insulation on the stick house, and the ICF was just like ambient color almost no heat loss thru the walls.

Yea if it doesn't have styrofoam on the outside then definitely a decent amount of heat loss from the studs. But if you got 2" outside, it is insulated just as well as ICF is on the outside. I just looked up logic, ICF is R27, better then a standard 2x6 wall, but less then 2x6 wall with 2" outside.

A lot of the sound is from windows. Concrete is not a good sound break.

 

[Cyle]

I disagree with your comment. Stucco offers no thermal break between the exterior elements and the interior framing/surfaces, where as either adding a layer of Styrofoam or using the ICF offer excellent thermal barriers.


You are correct ST.

I am a certified lvl 2 thermographer, I am involved with many building envelope failures with insurance companies, property managers, engineers, home and business owners. I am also a Red seal Journeyman Carpenter and hold a Certified Indoor Environmental designation, CIEC with 34 years construction experience. I spend approximately 5 hours per day looking at building issues, I don't see much with ICF buildings except for some air management issues, which are easily figured out. Not as much for the newer builds though. I see a lot of issues with stucco buildings, especially the new ones with the acrylic stucco. You see many of them that are having issues with water staining, those all need fixed now and every spring you see scaffolding going up all over on these buildings. I been involved in some pretty large projects. One elementary school around 7 years ago I was the environmental consultant on the entire exterior envelope was failing, mould everywhere, school was 10 years old, after we were finished the building was brought down to skeleton including roof. Construction in the last 20 years is terrible, and with prices rising so fast on items many shortcuts will be done.

Today, I was at home depot looking at wire they have good price on rolls, max 4 per person. I think it was $228 for 150 M that price seems decent for today, I bought that same roll for 1/2 the price in the fall last year. Now going to start stocking up on everything as the prices are truly nuts and they wont be coming down.
Almost thinking I should keep going with the ICF to the bottom of the trusses, my foundation walls are 6" thick as they are only 4' tall, I would have additional engineering if I go to the roof and would most likely have to make the walls 8".

Totally stucco doesn't provide anything, but anytime i've seen acrylic there's always foam behind it, generally 2". Stucco is just like so many of the other trades, so many cut corners and do a chitty job and it doesn't last. I don't think the last 20 years is much different then the previous 30. Many homes built in the 70's-90's were built just as poorly. The amount of foundation repairs i've done and see how poorly things were done is insane.

 

[Caper11]

As far as insulation, if you have stucco, you already likely have 2" outside, which is as good or better then the insulation for ICF outside. For the inside, you don't have the same R value as a 2x6 wall. I would bet with 2" foam outside and 2x6 wall, compared to ICF the sound would be the same, and you don't get anything from walls, it's all the windows. The other thing is you have the massive window sills to figure out how to look good. If it's your forever home the cost difference isn't as bad, but resale, tell someone it's ICF and 99% of people won't know or care what it is and won't pay more, it will even be a negative to some.

I am glad to hear you went 8" below ground though, i've heard far too many going with 6" which is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I’m no engineer, but the deeper the basement the more pressure on the walls. I’ve heard of more problems with 8ft basement walls actually.

 

[Frosty19]

Just to clarify, there's a difference between acrylic stucco and EIFS stucco which is the one on a 2" foam with drainage cavity.

 

[X-it]

One thing about stucco, water gets in and does not get out. I have seen 2x6 eaten right up in less than 10 years. People really need to learn more about flashing when adding pretty boards and battens around windows and doors. And how to divert water from roof lines and walls. You need to add steal in 6 inch concrete walls to get it passed to much of a pain in the ass to even bother and not all concrete meets specs when delivered.

 

[niner]

ICF is a pretty good product. Definitely some tricks to keeping it straight but it can be done. We prefer a different method. I think the concrete should protect the styrofoam. This is 5” concrete,3” styrofoam,4”concrete. Both concrete faces are tied together with rebar. Spacers keep the styrofoam in the middle of the wall.

 

[X-it]

Never ever seen a job site that neet before, I am out of here.

 

[rknight111]

Never ever seen a job site that neet before, I am out of here.

Yes that he needs to make a thread on that, looks great so far. I couldn't imagine the costs for that construction.

 

[lilduke]

View attachment 242922

View attachment 242923
ICF is a pretty good product. Definitely some tricks to keeping it straight but it can be done. We prefer a different method. I think the concrete should protect the styrofoam. This is 5” concrete,3” styrofoam,4”concrete. Both concrete faces are tied together with rebar. Spacers keep the styrofoam in the middle of the wall.

Nice Similar to a precast panel.

 

[niner]

Nice Simalar to a precast panel.

View attachment 242928

Yes. But less shipping costs.

 

[lilduke]

Yes. But less shipping costs.

Forsure. Precast is nice because it goes up so quick.

 

[catalac]

Maybe it’s in the thread but whats relative cost of ICF blocks vs cribbed basement cement?

 

[X-it]

About 50% more cost for the ICF but that was a long time ago, as more people use icf usually the cost come down, and that is having your own forms and not renting them.

 

[catalac]

And maybe dumb question but you don’t frame the exterior walls in the basement with that, when finishing basement?

 

[arff]

Cost might be up. But sure a lot of new home builds in Leduc right now.

 

[Lunch_Box]

And maybe dumb question but you don’t frame the exterior walls in the basement with that, when finishing basement?

Nope. I used a router for to run my electrical lines through the ICF and then just slap on the drywall, some screws in the ribs of the ICF, some low expanding spray foam to act as a glue and they go up quick. If your walls aren't straight then you might end up having to do some interior framing.

 

[Rotax_Kid]

I’m no engineer, but the deeper the basement the more pressure on the walls. I’ve heard of more problems with 8ft basement walls actually.

Ground pressure at basement depth is so minimal. If anything, the freeze-thaw cycles up here are the biggest problems from a ground pressure perspective.

I'm currently doing some design work for a client on the other side of the world in a mine shaft and @ 1,300m below surface, believe it or not, ground pressure is so minimal, we are still fine with a 8in thick liner using a fibre reinforced 70 mpa mix