Looking for Feedback on the '15 Viper's

[Lund]

Hi Dale,
I don't know exactly what your trying to compare this sled too but in all honesty its all about your OWN personal style and liking. I've had the opportunity of riding with you on a few occasions and IMO you would like this sled for your style.
Though i have not yet had an opportunity to ride a Viper, i have been riding a Nytro since 2010. When it comes to reliability and turn key sleds there is nothing out there that compares, Yamaha has that cornered in just about all aspects. 8300klms all turbo 2nd stage since new, the sled has never been out with out the turbo. Sled bought new and turbo installed from day one. ZERO issues, warranty claims, not even a trip back to the dealer for a minor problem.
Its very easy to get side tracked or sucked in on internet BS, my advise is know what you want from the get go. Take the opportunity and try one for a day knowing the draw backs of a four stroke, like weight in comparison.
As for experience i can tell you my Nytro has always been easier to ride then my 05 RT ever was, so the Viper with its Cat chassi will be even that much better.
Would i buy another four stroke, YES i would. For me it fits my style.

 

[LBZ]

PM J.P. and ask his thoughts on the viper

Thanks!

I'd rather he just post it here though. I'm sure I'm not the only curious one!

 

[sc800]

Great sleds on steep hill climbs......no issues

He posted already.

 

[LBZ]

He posted already.

Yes I saw - it was very informative LOL.
I was responding to d mills post - if he has more to add, both good or bad I'm all ears.

 

[LBZ]

Hi Dale,
I don't know exactly what your trying to compare this sled too but in all honesty its all about your OWN personal style and liking. I've had the opportunity of riding with you on a few occasions and IMO you would like this sled for your style.
Though i have not yet had an opportunity to ride a Viper, i have been riding a Nytro since 2010. When it comes to reliability and turn key sleds there is nothing out there that compares, Yamaha has that cornered in just about all aspects. 8300klms all turbo 2nd stage since new, the sled has never been out with out the turbo. Sled bought new and turbo installed from day one. ZERO issues, warranty claims, not even a trip back to the dealer for a minor problem.
Its very easy to get side tracked or sucked in on internet BS, my advise is know what you want from the get go. Take the opportunity and try one for a day knowing the draw backs of a four stroke, like weight in comparison.
As for experience i can tell you my Nytro has always been easier to ride then my 05 RT ever was, so the Viper with its Cat chassi will be even that much better.
Would i buy another four stroke, YES i would. For me it fits my style.

Thanks for the info Mike. Motor wise I have no doubts about the reliability. It's the rest of the package together that I am interested in being it's a marriage of two highly different sleds.
Basically I was just looking for issues like things coming loose, falling off, recalls, or items just don't fit right or don't work right for the sled design like skis, bars, drivetrain, etc. Also reviews and multiple ride thoughts on how they handle compared to previous sleds owners have owned - both 2 and 4 stroke.
I've heard they handle very well and seem better than the same chassis with the Cat motor and it seems to hide the added weight very well compared to other sleds with the yammy motor. The numbers coming in seem to be not too far off the 2 strokes these days and word on the street is that balance seems to be much better.

One thing I haven't heard yet is any reviews on how they are strictly as an NA sled. It seems everyone has a turbo on them. Is there a reason for this I wonder or is it just the crowd that seems to ride them is very pro-turbo? I have no prejudice's against either, just curious.

For myself, coming off a REV and an XM I know how that set-up works. I definitely need to throw a a leg over a Viper to get a feel and then make a decision. T-3 or Viper for a snowcheck.

 

[bigfish]

Yes I saw - it was very informative LOL.
I was responding to d mills post - if he has more to add, both good or bad I'm all ears.

thats just jp being jp lol

 

[Lund]

Thanks for the info Mike. Motor wise I have no doubts about the reliability. It's the rest of the package together that I am interested in being it's a marriage of two highly different sleds.
Basically I was just looking for issues like things coming loose, falling off, recalls, or items just don't fit right or don't work right for the sled design like skis, bars, drivetrain, etc. Also reviews and multiple ride thoughts on how they handle compared to previous sleds owners have owned - both 2 and 4 stroke.
I've heard they handle very well and seem better than the same chassis with the Cat motor and it seems to hide the added weight very well compared to other sleds with the yammy motor. The numbers coming in seem to be not too far off the 2 strokes these days and word on the street is that balance seems to be much better.

One thing I haven't heard yet is any reviews on how they are strictly as an NA sled. It seems everyone has a turbo on them. Is there a reason for this I wonder or is it just the crowd that seems to ride them is very pro-turbo? I have no prejudice's against either, just curious.

For myself, coming off a REV and an XM I know how that set-up works. I definitely need to throw a a leg over a Viper to get a feel and then make a decision. T-3 or Viper for a snowcheck.

The Viper uses ONLY the Cat chassi, front and rear suspensions components excluding the shocks. Yamaha uses their own shocks and the clutching is Yamaha, also so is the gear box Yamaha exclusive. The Cat gear box is something to be desired imo.
As for NA motor in the Viper, the 1049 genesis only produces 135hp, so compared to anything else in the 800 class its underpowered and heavy. I highly recommend at least a basic 1st stage turbo set up, it will get you in to the 180-190hp plus Yamaha will stand behind the warranty with that set up.
The other thing to remember is also NA motors 2stroke or 4stroke will lose about 3% of their power for every 1000ft of elevation gained, a 160hp 800 at 6,000ft a common riding elevation is actually more like 130hp. The advantage to the turbo is that it makes its own atmosphere and loses virtually NO power, 180-190hp at 2,000ft and 180-190hp at 8,000ft.
The big question is how much your willing to spend, most people ride two strokes cause its CHEAPER to get in to, while a 4stroke will run you at least an extra $5,000 with a very basic turbo. You can pickup a T3 for $15,000 ready to ride, while a turboed Viper will run you near if not over $20,000 new.
IMO if your thinking non turboed Viper, go with a 2stroke, you'll be happier.

 

[pfi572]

Well said Lund .

 

[jrusher]

Thanks for the info Mike. Motor wise I have no doubts about the reliability. It's the rest of the package together that I am interested in being it's a marriage of two highly different sleds.
Basically I was just looking for issues like things coming loose, falling off, recalls, or items just don't fit right or don't work right for the sled design like skis, bars, drivetrain, etc. Also reviews and multiple ride thoughts on how they handle compared to previous sleds owners have owned - both 2 and 4 stroke.
I've heard they handle very well and seem better than the same chassis with the Cat motor and it seems to hide the added weight very well compared to other sleds with the yammy motor. The numbers coming in seem to be not too far off the 2 strokes these days and word on the street is that balance seems to be much better.

One thing I haven't heard yet is any reviews on how they are strictly as an NA sled. It seems everyone has a turbo on them. Is there a reason for this I wonder or is it just the crowd that seems to ride them is very pro-turbo? I have no prejudice's against either, just curious.

For myself, coming off a REV and an XM I know how that set-up works. I definitely need to throw a a leg over a Viper to get a feel and then make a decision. T-3 or Viper for a snowcheck.

I wouldnt hesitate to ride this sled stock or close to stock anywhere, change skis, clutch it and ride the sheit out of it.. Its way better package then what the nytro mtx was years ago.. Then make changes later boost or other mods

 

[loudelectronics]

The viper MTX also uses a different rail setup than the ac sleds. The front shock is over an inch longer and the mounting point is more forward. The front of the rails are longer and the mounting point for the front arm is higher. The vertical steering is also taller than AC.

 

[LBZ]

The Viper uses ONLY the Cat chassi, front and rear suspensions components excluding the shocks. Yamaha uses their own shocks and the clutching is Yamaha, also so is the gear box Yamaha exclusive. The Cat gear box is something to be desired imo.
As for NA motor in the Viper, the 1049 genesis only produces 135hp, so compared to anything else in the 800 class its underpowered and heavy. I highly recommend at least a basic 1st stage turbo set up, it will get you in to the 180-190hp plus Yamaha will stand behind the warranty with that set up.
The other thing to remember is also NA motors 2stroke or 4stroke will lose about 3% of their power for every 1000ft of elevation gained, a 160hp 800 at 6,000ft a common riding elevation is actually more like 130hp. The advantage to the turbo is that it makes its own atmosphere and loses virtually NO power, 180-190hp at 2,000ft and 180-190hp at 8,000ft.
The big question is how much your willing to spend, most people ride two strokes cause its CHEAPER to get in to, while a 4stroke will run you at least an extra $5,000 with a very basic turbo. You can pickup a T3 for $15,000 ready to ride, while a turboed Viper will run you near if not over $20,000 new.
IMO if your thinking non turboed Viper, go with a 2stroke, you'll be happier.

I didn't realize the hp was that low. I hadn't read anywhere with a reliable source to back up any hp claims on the 1049cc. I never did look into the Nytro threads though.......
FWIW I am not ruling out a turbo at all, just wondering how the sled runs with the others with the extra bit of weight and totally different torque and hp curve at elevation in a NA set-up. It didn't sound like many were running NA so I was hoping the few that are would chime in.
As far as initial purchase price and longevity and reliability I think the 4-stroke definitely will be the winner so paying a little more up front for a sled I might keep for 5 years or more without having to do much maintenance makes sense to me. As I said before, I'm not sold on Doo anymore as being the be all end all of the sled world due to all the recalls and my experience on the newer ones. I think I'm ready to look at other options....

I wouldnt hesitate to ride this sled stock or close to stock anywhere, change skis, clutch it and ride the sheit out of it.. Its way better package then what the nytro mtx was years ago.. Then make changes later boost or other mods

Interesting.....

 

[tex78]

Ya stock viper has less hp than ur old 800ho lol


Brp and recalls, huh

I had one on my 14... Nowadays recalls are just normal as it covers there azz, that's for any sled, quad, vehicle ect...

U had a few road bumps with ur xm sure, but u bought a first year new product

Mine has been flawless for 3000 km, just add gas and oil

Except for self inflected bo bo's

 

[Clode]

my last 3 sleds have been yamaha's and there was not one recall on any of them..no dealer warranty trips...and no they aren't the best out of the box but with some set-up yamaha's work well.....one thing I have always liked about yamaha is the fact they always leave some easy hp unused, the ability to make more power has always been easy to do, weather it be exhaust/intake changes or a turbo.....one guy in our group rode his nytro N/A for 3 seasons, the sled had exhaust, intake, programmer, and some very good clutching, it worked very well.....I would not be scared to try a Viper and go with EVO's power up kit, if you still crave more turbo after.....In my experience the big hp sleds have taken some of the fun out of sledding, lower powered sleds can be more fun in average snow conditions which is what most of ride all season...mega deep epic snow is only happens a couple of times a year.......I have a HO turbo nytro, and I am going to build a long track phazer2 for local fun rides, my group has discovered the old fan cooled sleds are just as much fun and require far less snow to be challenged, the nytro will be a mountain only sled

 

[bigfish]

i rode my nytro for half a season as n/a & it was allot of fun,had no issues keeping up with the 800s but could not climb with them,but it did evrything else well i just had a light exaust + a few other light weight parts.i think the viper would be a riot with the evo flash & header at 160hp & all that tork.

 

[LBZ]

Ya stock viper has less hp than ur old 800ho lol


Brp and recalls, huh

I had one on my 14... Nowadays recalls are just normal as it covers there azz, that's for any sled, quad, vehicle ect...

U had a few road bumps with ur xm sure, but u bought a first year new product

Mine has been flawless for 3000 km, just add gas and oil

Except for self inflected bo bo's

If a manufacturer does a good job before they put to market, there should be no recalls. Like said, Yamaha hasn't had any.
BRP had 3 or 4 before most even received their T3's. Mine had at least 4 and went to the dealer 3 times for other issues.
Also the E-tec I had was not a first year product. Only thing new was the T-motion and the rider position. Both worked excellent as well I might add. I'm just over the raves about the Etec motor. It's not that great IMO.

For those that got a good one then treat it like it was your ol lady and ride it often and ride it hard!

Again not writing them off completely, just looking at other options.

 

[tex78]

If a manufacturer does a good job before they put to market, there should be no recalls. Like said, Yamaha hasn't had any.
BRP had 3 or 4 before most even received their T3's. Mine had at least 4 and went to the dealer 3 times for other issues.
Also the E-tec I had was not a first year product. Only thing new was the T-motion and the rider position. Both worked excellent as well I might add. I'm just over the raves about the Etec motor. It's not that great IMO.

For those that got a good one then treat it like it was your ol lady and ride it often and ride it hard!

Again not writing them off completely, just looking at other options.

Etech it self no


But set up, mapping, clutching, reeds ect



No different than the 13 to my 14 are different

 

[Lund]

Not to turn a good thread into a BS thread but when i was introduced to Ski-doo in 2000 with the purchase of two Summits. First time ever to own a Ski-doo sled's, with the last 20yrs of owning Yamaha's and Cat's since 1980. I was happy with the new Ski-doo sled, with only one warranty issue dealing with rear skid shocks.
This good experience got me hooked into buying 4 more Ski-doo Summits and riding BRP sled's for the next 10 years. Till 2010.
And for the next 10 years i have had more warranty claims, tuning issues, calibration issues, reliability issues and tows out of the hill's then the previous 20 years with Cat and Yamaha.
I threw in the towel in 2010 with Ski-doo sled's, got smart and went back to the Maytag brands and it is nice not dealing with so much warranty, poor calibration and not being at the end of a rope.
Maybe one day i'll get back to Doo but not today. Just go to a dealer and ask to see their warranty claim book before you purchase.
Not saying that there was never any issues with the other makes but saying my experience was continual with Ski-doo. PTO bearings failure, TRA clutch performance issues and tuning, stator failure, hand warmer not working, Rave (powervalve)valve breaking, cylinder chroming flaking off....and on it goes.
Are they really any better?
Just my experience, i hope others are having better luck.

 

[deaner]

Not to turn a good thread into a BS thread but when i was introduced to Ski-doo in 2000 with the purchase of two Summits. First time ever to own a Ski-doo sled's, with the last 20yrs of owning Yamaha's and Cat's since 1980. I was happy with the new Ski-doo sled, with only one warranty issue dealing with rear skid shocks.
This good experience got me hooked into buying 4 more Ski-doo Summits and riding BRP sled's for the next 10 years. Till 2010.
And for the next 10 years i have had more warranty claims, tuning issues, calibration issues, reliability issues and tows out of the hill's then the previous 20 years with Cat and Yamaha.
I threw in the towel in 2010 with Ski-doo sled's, got smart and went back to the Maytag brands and it is nice not dealing with so much warranty, poor calibration and not being at the end of a rope.
Maybe one day i'll get back to Doo but not today. Just go to a dealer and ask to see their warranty claim book before you purchase.
Not saying that there was never any issues with the other makes but saying my experience was continual with Ski-doo. PTO bearings failure, TRA clutch performance issues and tuning, stator failure, hand warmer not working, Rave (powervalve)valve breaking, cylinder chroming flaking off....and on it goes.
Are they really any better?
Just my experience, i hope others are having better luck.

Sounds like you left at just the wrong time. Ive owned basically every model since 05 and yes there were some growing pains. From 2010 on they have been flawless for me. And I think in generally not many issues.

 

[Bnorth]

Not to turn a good thread into a BS thread but when i was introduced to Ski-doo in 2000 with the purchase of two Summits. First time ever to own a Ski-doo sled's, with the last 20yrs of owning Yamaha's and Cat's since 1980. I was happy with the new Ski-doo sled, with only one warranty issue dealing with rear skid shocks.
This good experience got me hooked into buying 4 more Ski-doo Summits and riding BRP sled's for the next 10 years. Till 2010.
And for the next 10 years i have had more warranty claims, tuning issues, calibration issues, reliability issues and tows out of the hill's then the previous 20 years with Cat and Yamaha.
I threw in the towel in 2010 with Ski-doo sled's, got smart and went back to the Maytag brands and it is nice not dealing with so much warranty, poor calibration and not being at the end of a rope.
Maybe one day i'll get back to Doo but not today. Just go to a dealer and ask to see their warranty claim book before you purchase.
Not saying that there was never any issues with the other makes but saying my experience was continual with Ski-doo. PTO bearings failure, TRA clutch performance issues and tuning, stator failure, hand warmer not working, Rave (powervalve)valve breaking, cylinder chroming flaking off....and on it goes.
Are they really any better?
Just my experience, i hope others are having better luck.

With all due respect Mike, that was now ten years ago and it was also an RT which are widely regarded as the worst mountain sled ever built. I personally would not have owned anything skidoo built between the RT and the Etec as I don't like carbs especially when everyone else had switched to very good fuel injection systems many years previously.

To the OP it sounds like you want a sled that won't give you any headaches and have a very low patience tolerance for issues. I get that but it's not realistic for manufacturers to nail perfection with how far they are pushing the technology in these machines. Considering the issues the Cats and Polaris had up until 2014 I think Ski-Doo has done a very good job and had mostly minor issues and recall campaigns in comparison. If that doesn't keep you happy then maybe the Yamaha will be a good option for you as it is a 4 year old Cat chassis with a motor they have had for 7 years, hardly pushing the technology envelope but should be ironed out and reliable.

 

[Clode]

I worked at Polaris, Doo, Yamaha dealers for a bout 6yrs, I went through the 800doo piston recall thing and excessive fuel consumption of '02 (or '03), recall after recall, summer and winter product, same with Poo, the 900 RMK, the early rangers etc.....and then there was the yamaha stuff, sleds rarely ever came back except for seasonal maintenance, motors were very solid, and the ATVs were good, quality did drop a bit when they first started manufacturing atv's in the USA.....so I was given a demo Yamaha, rode the crap out of it and never looked back.....were there lighter, faster sleds, yup, but I sure liked not pulling wrenches on my own iron...I know BRP has changed but I think they still rush products to market, more testing should be done to limit these bulletin's and recalls.....All I can say about cat is their suzuki engines are great, other than that I have never owned one lol