jeff, have you spent a reasonable amount of time on a well setup boosted 4 stroke? There is honestly no scenario where I would rather have my turbo etec over either of my 4 strokes.
Interesting article on Supertrax recently......
- Thread starter climbmax
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tex78
Active VIP Member
No, not a hole bunch kelly
But where I ride, even older xps and cats have a hard time in the trees in no man's land
A boosted Nitro would be tanked every turn and mile, and tow trucks don't come that far up lol
174mcx
Active VIP Member
I had a boosted 2 stroke.. didn't keep it. It depends on what kind of riding one does for sure no arguement there. like putting a nascar on a dirt track. I don't know what you mean by filling up a nytro with oil but it doesn't matter anyway the pouring 2 stroke oil was just a joke. 10000km is great but I doubt thats the norm. I was just stating that for less money than a skidoo you can buy a 180hp viper. People should give it a chance they are a very fun sled when the suspension is all stock with that kind of power. Deffinately a big improvement from the RX1 in only 10 yrs, the 2 strokes havent changed alot in the last 10 yrs.
Most are too scared for change and what there friends might say.
Most are too scared for change and what there friends might say.
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
This is turning into a bit of a pizzing match but I will chime in to say that 2 strokes have also changed more in the last 10 years than any 10 year period prior to that. The chassis are amazing and the 800's make 160hp reliably.
neilsleder
Active VIP Member
I think it has to do with the size of the rider. For me I wouldn't buy a 4 stroke sled, I weigh 180 with gear. I tried a few 4 stroke sleds out liked the power but I can't make them do nothing. But if you are a 6'5" 280# guy I bet you would love a boosted 4 stroke. But the big guy on a stock 2 stroke would notice a lot less power because of weight. For me 2 stroke all the way.
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Bnorth
Active VIP Member
I think it comes down more to riding style. I'm 6'3" 270# and while I haven't ridden a ton of boosted 4ts the ones I have keep pushing me back to my 2t.
neilsleder
Active VIP Member
tex78
Active VIP Member
But how much is a 180 hp viper Josh?? All said and done up 20000??
A guy could do a low boost non intercooler or even big bore etech for that and have a more all around sled with just as much pop and less weight
Now I haven't road a viper I'll give ya that, but it's not that much lighter than a Nitro or a.c t1100 and they are tanks stock
I spent some days on a really done up Viper last season. The Power was ridiculous, my T3 felt very slow after riding that thing.
Point that thing at a stupid big hill and pin it, it will put a smile on your face.
One of the best tree riders around, Johnny Slice said this about it after riding: "That thing is Scary".
The guy that wound up buying it from Cycle Works can actually Dangle with it not too bad in trees, this guy is
built like a brick chit house though.
Its not really my cup of tee,(given the other current options) but it is definitely fun to ride. Deeper the snow the funner.
Id like to try the new front end out this season, should make it better in marginal snow conditions.
When you do get it stuck, you will find out who your real friends are in a hurry though.... haha
Point that thing at a stupid big hill and pin it, it will put a smile on your face.
One of the best tree riders around, Johnny Slice said this about it after riding: "That thing is Scary".
The guy that wound up buying it from Cycle Works can actually Dangle with it not too bad in trees, this guy is
built like a brick chit house though.
Its not really my cup of tee,(given the other current options) but it is definitely fun to ride. Deeper the snow the funner.
Id like to try the new front end out this season, should make it better in marginal snow conditions.
When you do get it stuck, you will find out who your real friends are in a hurry though.... haha
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LBZ
Active VIP Member
This is kind of why I posted the fb link for that evolution powersports page. If they can actually produce a NA 160hp with their kit and be able to not gain any weight in the process a guy might be able to shed enough weight on top of that to make it weigh close to a stock Cat or SP - non T3 Doo. Would make it a very enjoyable sled to ride I feel.
It's interesting how most people want to bash 4 strokes without ever riding one. I think the following things need to be considered in this discussion. As much as 4 strokes do cost more up front the overall maintenance is cheaper, due to not having to do tear downs and rebuilds at 5 - 10k on average.
In regards to oil not every 2 stroke brand or engine is efficient as the e - tec or cat's 600 c - tec. The 4 stroke shouldn't need topping up but maybe once a season and needs to be changed once year at $80. How much does it cost for synthetic 2 stroke and how much do you burn?
When comes to low end torque the 4 stroke wins hands down and when it comes to hp the 2 stroke may win The real question is it torque that gets you out of the deep snow and up the hill or the hp?
The emissions discussion is starting to disappear with the newer engines due to less oil consumption.
I do think riding styles and preferences comes down to brands and chassis, a good seasoned or even pro rider can ride most machines with out too much complaining. I have ridden both 2 and 4 strokes and it wasn't the engine that made the difference for me but the chassis and brand.
I do ride a stock Nytro and can ride every my buddies ride. To me the only time it feels heavy is when it is stuck. However every machine feels heavy when stuck when you have to dig it out.
The real question is when will Gov't enforce stricter emmisions law's and force the industry to change. In some area's of the state's they don't allow 2 strokes boat motors and limit 2 stroke OHV usage. Based on this the 4 stroke isn't going to disappear and may take over sales.
In regards to oil not every 2 stroke brand or engine is efficient as the e - tec or cat's 600 c - tec. The 4 stroke shouldn't need topping up but maybe once a season and needs to be changed once year at $80. How much does it cost for synthetic 2 stroke and how much do you burn?
When comes to low end torque the 4 stroke wins hands down and when it comes to hp the 2 stroke may win The real question is it torque that gets you out of the deep snow and up the hill or the hp?
The emissions discussion is starting to disappear with the newer engines due to less oil consumption.
I do think riding styles and preferences comes down to brands and chassis, a good seasoned or even pro rider can ride most machines with out too much complaining. I have ridden both 2 and 4 strokes and it wasn't the engine that made the difference for me but the chassis and brand.
I do ride a stock Nytro and can ride every my buddies ride. To me the only time it feels heavy is when it is stuck. However every machine feels heavy when stuck when you have to dig it out.
The real question is when will Gov't enforce stricter emmisions law's and force the industry to change. In some area's of the state's they don't allow 2 strokes boat motors and limit 2 stroke OHV usage. Based on this the 4 stroke isn't going to disappear and may take over sales.
We should go riding sometime, I've had lots of guys want to go tree riding and I don't get stuck anymore than anyone else, usually less.
Joholio
Active VIP Member
Im just waiting for Randy to comment. You tease
tex78
Active VIP Member
I'll take ya up on that
tex78
Active VIP Member
One problem with a boosted sled and none of ur buddy's having one is, big hill ur alone to dig it lol
I find gravity tends to takes care of that problem haha. Plant it in a Creek or tree well though and yeah... good times...lol
Vipertonytro
Active VIP Member
I have to agree with this. I usually lead and a lot in the trees. And I'm always the one circling back to help out my stuck two stroke buddies. The deeper the snow the better advantage I have with my Boosted four stroke. Honestly the only time I ride my two stokes is when the snow sucks because thats where I feel the weight of my 4 stroke.
And everyone who bitches about getting them stuck well they are all heavy when stuck. Get your shovel out and in a few minutes your out. Or if gravity is in your favour roll it. If your four stoke is set up right there is no problems rolling them to get them out. Now if your in a creek or a tree well you need at least 4 guys regardless of what you ride.
The point is ride what you like. But most of the complainers about 4 strokes have probably never ridden one that is properly set up.
To many guys have poured 40K into one and never thought about making it handle right. (Read Nytro here as when they were stock they were like riding a 45 gallon drum)
The new Vipers are impressive to ride stock and are getting so close to the handling of the 2 strokes.
I rode my buddies Low boost 190hp Viper last year that was dealer set up toto cost for about $18,000.00 That thing pulls like a freight train.
It can do everything a T174 will do but faster.
Thats 190hp on the mountain whats the Doo at 7000 feet 130? And the cost! How much is that brand new T174? Not a lot different.
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
I keep hearing how good the viper handles but haven't ridden one. I have however spent a fair bit of time on the 1100t and it's one of the worst handling machines I've ridden in low snow conditions. I can't see how changing just the motor can make that big a difference?
pipes
Active VIP Member
Just the way the motor sits in the chassis changes the overall balance of the machine. I know I know I'm sounding like a Yamaha sales man. I've Also ridden the boosted viper and compared to My 1100t it does seem to feel lighter.
The one I rode had CR tunnel, Baker B-motion, elkas ext ext. Doesn't handle like my T3, Ill tell you that.
300hp makes up for some of its short comings though.
I do think the 2016 will be much better, with the new front end.
As far as getting stuck with my T3 95% of the time I can get it out by myself.
With the Viper Id say 50%. Although if I rode it more Im sure Id get tuffer....haha
If you are looking for light weight, get the new Polaris. If you want big HP, you can't go wrong with the Viper.
If you want a proven & reliable 2 stroke platform, Doo or Cat.
300hp makes up for some of its short comings though.
I do think the 2016 will be much better, with the new front end.
As far as getting stuck with my T3 95% of the time I can get it out by myself.
With the Viper Id say 50%. Although if I rode it more Im sure Id get tuffer....haha
If you are looking for light weight, get the new Polaris. If you want big HP, you can't go wrong with the Viper.
If you want a proven & reliable 2 stroke platform, Doo or Cat.
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