ICF concrete forms for house build.

[fat tire]

Anyone build a house with this......looking to build a bungalow from footing to rafter with ICF. Anyone k ow a rough cost per sq foot on a house built with ICF. Compared to stick built........any builders or estimators here. Thanks.

 

[gotboost]

when i built my basement with icf blocks i think i paid $23 bucks a block

 

[mxz sledhead]

A friend did his home with the blocks where the saving was he didn't need to hire any contractor till it came to the joist and install the windows which the contractor screw up any ways install the windows upside down the walls are 10" thick it is alot of work but the end result is you solid well insulated home sound proof plus he heats it with hot water heating the boiler is about the size of small microwave which also uses for hot water tank and heats his garage so cheap all round

 

[OVERKILL 19]

I did a basement addition with them. The trick with building a house with them is know your block sizes and design your house around that. Cutting blocks is gay, not hard just gay! Concrete is not cheaper than wood! My 1400sq garage with dormers and vaults I think my wood and trusses were $5000. My 4ft frost wall and floor was $22-24000.00. Mind you my floor was 8" thick and colored, but still wood is alot cheaper. If I was building on a farm/acerage it would be wood basement 2x8x10's with 2" SM. Lots of people are scared of wood basements, but done right they are just as good as a concrete, if not better but thats another debet. It takes alot of heat recovery to get back the differance. Gas is stupid cheap when u break out the delivery addmin costs. So it takes along time to get it back

 

[stuckenough]

Whatever you do make sure to use a block that is user friendly like "logix"Some of the others can be a real chore to work with.

 

[sledneck_03]

Ive seen full houses done in Saskatoon. I built a house with 2x8 walls, but the studs were staggered 2x4s, which makes them 8" oc leaving no cold spots. Heated concrete lower level, and upper level we ran 4x8 sheets of ducting tin all over the floor. Then ran the tubes between 6" slats of 3/4" plywood and then tile motarded the gaps flush with the ply. The heating costs are super minimal, and its a water front cabin that the whole front facing the lake is windows. House is nice and toasty and super quiet.

With the logix blocks, ive done a basement. you pour your footing, lay out the blocks and windows, pour the concrete. Then you have to cut the Styrofoam on the inside 4-5" up with a sawzall or something to pour your concrete floor. PITA. Im not sure on doing an upper level? im sure you would lay out the joists and and rim board then build the upper lever and pour the concrete for the upper level......

Heres a couple pics of the upper level infloor heat before the mortar

 

[storm1972]

i have installed Icf for about 12 years now, and wont do any foundations without using them, its if by far way superior , cost up front is more, but the savings thoughout the years will definetly pay for itself, blocks run from about 19 bucks each to 23-25, depending on which ones you use, cutting them to fit offsizes is a breeze, if you know what your doing, and do it properly, biggest expense will be the concrete, and the advanges speak for themselves, you get a cooler house during the summer, and much warmer in the winter, allowing you to turn the thermostat down.(providing windows are decent, and good building practices are used) IE production framers using black paper for exterior covering.... IMO shortcut , and does nothing for the building envelope. Ideally you want your house to be airproof, but still able to breath from the inside to the out, and building paper does not allow for this. Flexgaurd, Aspire, are the way to go.

 

[Uturn]

On my walkout bungalow I priced out ICF and couldn't make the numbers work. I went with standard concrete walls and sprayed 4" walltite eco(the purple stuff) on the inside after it was framed. Worked out to 60% of the cost of ICF. Standard framing costs, easier to wire and finish, cheaper window cost. May not be identical to ICF, but it would take a lot of years(15+) worth of natural gas to pay it back.

1700 sq ft walkout bungalow, 628 sq ft garage, 5-150k btu modulating boiler heats it all.

 

[Cyle]

If you go with ICF, plan on staying there for a long time, or you will be disappointed on resale. You won't get the extra money back. 99% don't even know or care what ICF is, they are 1000x more worried about nice flooring, cabinets, etc. Never even heard of ICF for upperfloor, that is going to be pricey, bigger footing for the load, bigger floor trusses, a LOT harder to frame onto, etc.

I am willing to bet, for the cost of doing ICF yourself you can pay someone to do a regular foundation. If you want better insulation, do it on the inside with sprayfoam, or whatever. The biggest issue with ICF is you never see how good your wall is. You have no idea if you have honeycombing or worse. Very rare yes, but you will never know (well you might if you have a issue down the road).

 

[Uturn]

Neighbors bungalow is ICF to roof trusses. Cost a fortune for windows and doors. They built 10 years ago and it was a lot of extra work attaching floor trusses, cabinets, electrical. I've also seen of a 2 story ICF to roof trusses. The two story was close to $90k in forms and concrete.

 

[Crazy8]

My dipsh!t neighbor has been trying to build his ICF house for 1 1/2 years now and still isn't done the second level. I'm not talking about an average run of the mill house here either, big azz 2 story with full walkout basement. I've seen 2 stop work orders stapled to the front of the place, not a straight wall to be found. Such a mess that the training rep from Fox Blocks came out to take pics on what NOT to do.

Unless you are an experienced builder I wouldn't try to do it yourself. Can it be done? Sure. Will you save any money? Not a chance. The benefits are for sure but hire a pro to do it for you.

 

[Cyle]

Neighbors bungalow is ICF to roof trusses. Cost a fortune for windows and doors. They built 10 years ago and it was a lot of extra work attaching floor trusses, cabinets, electrical. I've also seen of a 2 story ICF to roof trusses. The two story was close to $90k in forms and concrete.

Wow it better of been a big house, that is a LOT of money. I mean what would a normal basement of costed there in material, $10,000 VERY generous? And framing material is nothing.

 

[fat tire]

Thanks guys for all the input, that's what I like about this site, lots of information and lots to think about after the initial idea of using icf.........we want to move to lacombe in the spring summer and would like to build, would like to be the general contractor myself and just hire out the trades. We have built a few houses over the last ten plus years but have always ended up using a builder to do a turn key job........ Always a headache.... I think I could save some money by buying the set of plans for the house we want and just building it.......anyone have input on going that route, I'm thinking that if you can hire the right trades you can get the best bang for your buck. Give me your thoughts. And thanks for the replys. To the ICF questions.

 

[fat tire]

Cycle you built yor own place recently didnt you.........? Anyone have a rough cost to lock up say a 1600 sq ft bungalow.

 

[Cyle]

Cycle you built yor own place recently didnt you.........? Anyone have a rough cost to lock up say a 1600 sq ft bungalow.

No not my own place, building with my dad. Still not done actually so can't say a finished cost. Only at the paint stage. It's almost impossible to give a rough cost per square foot as everything can vary depending on finishings.

If you have a good knowledge of the building process you can contract it yourself and save a lot of money over a builder for sure. But a warning, it will still be a lot of headaches. Finding good trade is the biggest problem. We only hired out plumbing, electrical, cabinents,paint, taping, texturing, and heating and more were bad then good. 3 electricians, 2nd electrician didn't know what he was doing, wired up the furance wrong didnt check it bursted a few water lines, about $10,000 in damage. 3rd one is finally good but fixing a lot of messes left by others which is $$$. Cabinents are terrible and have to bring another person in to fix.

Trades will make or break a build. You NEED to babysit them and check their work before the next trade starts. The electricans forgot to run power to 2 bedrooms for plugs. Not cheap or fun to run in after the house is painted. We boarded it ourselves and had to run things like phone lines, move outlets, etc because they screwed up terribly.

When I build on my own, I will have a contract setup for any trade to sign and anything they screw up will be paid by them 100% for the cost, cost of delay, etc. Big incentive to NOT screw up, and any good trade won't have a issue with it, so it will weed out bad ones. Granted I know a few good trades now, but I don't trust any ones I haven't worked with before.

Builders are making huge money, keep it for yourself. Yes you will pay a bit more for trades but in the end still savings. Best thing if your going to build, get in at a big store with someone for discounts. You won't get material quite as cheap as a decent size builder but close. But you figure how much overhead a builder has, it's HUGE and they are still making huge money.

 

[storm1972]

Thanks guys for all the input, that's what I like about this site, lots of information and lots to think about after the initial idea of using icf.........we want to move to lacombe in the spring summer and would like to build, would like to be the general contractor myself and just hire out the trades. We have built a few houses over the last ten plus years but have always ended up using a builder to do a turn key job........ Always a headache.... I think I could save some money by buying the set of plans for the house we want and just building it.......anyone have input on going that route, I'm thinking that if you can hire the right trades you can get the best bang for your buck. Give me your thoughts. And thanks for the replys. To the ICF questions.

If your moving to lacombe your in my neck of the woods, as far as being the general thats cool, but..... build a relationship of some sort with your trades you hire, i have built one home to the rafters with ICF when they were first introduced about 13 years ago, they have come a long way since then, a new block called Amvic, is most decidely the way to go in my opinion, i havent had a chance to use them personally, but they are totally interchangeable, meaning corners can all be ordered the same, because there is no upper or lower side to the block, ( they can be installed upside down), ive looked at them several times, and i highly recommend them to my potential customers. As far as some of the others have stated about having walls that arent straight ect, if you have someone that knows what they are doing, and braces the walls properly, its not an issue. Honeycombing, well as far as that goes thats carpentry/ concrete pouring 101, and knowing where and how to use a concrete vibrator and how fast to lower it and raise it. Out of roughly 30 homes ive done, ive had 1 blowout, and that was because the block wasnt properly foamed to the adjoining block, its not the end of the world, and can be fixed easily .
Going to the rafters with block is expensive, indestructable bomb shelter for many years, but not really needed, with good framing practices, and excellent building envelope practices its not needed. Example.. using building paper on the exterior.....( crappy building practice, and doesnt seal the outside air from entering the building) Spend the little bit extra and use housewrap that is proven. ( flexgaurd aspire) is an excellent choice. If you have any other questions fat tire, shoot me an inbox and id be happy to answer them for ya or give you some insight.

 

[fat tire]

Thanks cycleI'm no estimator but even with building a few turn key houses, there were headaches and screw ups......I think I could do just as good a job or better policing the trades......like you say a good trades person would have no issue with a contract that spells out what there responsible for. I think the area of lacombe /red deer should be able to find some trades worth a look......might have to get in touch with storm for a bit of advice and guidance . Just have to get an idea of an estimate from footing to lockup.Thanks again and cheers!

 

[Uturn]

Here is a link to a thread I started when I started my house build.

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f76/post-pics-your-house-build-33368.html

If you are going to GC your house, be prepared to invest a lot of time. Lots of leg work and waiting/chasing trades, looking at samples, etc. You will get to know everone in your local hardware/big box hardware store by name.

Fat Tire, when you get to it, I know a good finishing carpenter in Red Deer.

Cycle, the two story ICF is 3 floors of blocks, just shy of 100m3 concrete. I think its about 2500 sq ft/floor. My 1700 sq ft walkout was $22K in concrete and cribbing.

 

[Cyle]

Here is a link to a thread I started when I started my house build.https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f76/post-pics-your-house-build-33368.htmlIf you are going to GC your house, be prepared to invest a lot of time. Lots of leg work and waiting/chasing trades, looking at samples, etc. You will get to know everone in your local hardware/big box hardware store by name.Fat Tire, when you get to it, I know a good finishing carpenter in Red Deer.Cycle, the two story ICF is 3 floors of blocks, just shy of 100m3 concrete. I think its about 2500 sq ft/floor. My 1700 sq ft walkout was $22K in concrete and cribbing.

Wow that's a lot of weight I hope he had a massive footing. I meant material only 2300 sq/ft walkout wasn't even $10,000 in material.

 

[Showtime]

I helped my neighbor about 4 yrs ago build his house using these blocks, he went from basement floor to rafters. A neat idea and easy to use but as other have mentioned expensive and hard to work with on the finishes stages. He himself is not a fan of the deep ledges on all the doors and windows. The other thing that scares me abit with a floor to ceiling build is call me crazy but these new homes are too air tight now, i believe they need to breath ALITTLE, and with this build there in next to none. You need a very good ventilation system. I also agree with wood basements, if done properly they can last forever.