Sleds
Active member
How much is it to rebuild a 800 etec
How much is it to rebuild a 800 etec
- Thread starter Sleds
- Start date
maxwell
Active VIP Member
just top end? can get a piston gasket set for 300$.
are you going to do it yourself?
how is the bottom end?
how many miles?
are you going to do it yourself?
how is the bottom end?
how many miles?
- Thread starter
- #3
Sleds
Active member
I am not doing it but I was just wondering how much it is to rebuild one after a season on a turbo. Was maybe thinking about a turbo
SidewaysInto3rd
Active VIP Member
one millllllion dollars
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
I am curious why someone would think it would need to be rebuilt after a season with a turbo vs. non-turbo.
The Crank was designed for 160hp not 250hp. Id do a full rebuild every season regardless,, unless you put almost no miles on it.
Better to pay now then to fly out in a helicopter later...lol
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
How sure are you the crank suffers?
Is it spinning any faster? Does the crank know the output of the motor has increased because of forced air?
With a turbo system that uses secondary injection not possibly last longer?
There are a few different ideas one could consider. With the etec fuel no longer is sprayed into the block and higher case and crank temps were expected to reduce crank life. With a turbo system that uses secondary injectors does the fuel now help keep the case and crank cooler? If it does would that not promote crank life?
Or does the added fuel wash down the lubricant that has been allowed to maintain lubrication?
Have you check runout and play in the bearings prior to replacement? Are the replacement cranks trued prior to install?
sent from a top secret location
Is it spinning any faster? Does the crank know the output of the motor has increased because of forced air?
With a turbo system that uses secondary injection not possibly last longer?
There are a few different ideas one could consider. With the etec fuel no longer is sprayed into the block and higher case and crank temps were expected to reduce crank life. With a turbo system that uses secondary injectors does the fuel now help keep the case and crank cooler? If it does would that not promote crank life?
Or does the added fuel wash down the lubricant that has been allowed to maintain lubrication?
Have you check runout and play in the bearings prior to replacement? Are the replacement cranks trued prior to install?
sent from a top secret location
The motor is producing MORE HP AND TORQUE... This extra force is exerted on your crank.....
You think it doesnt matter to the life of yer light wieght crank if it makes 150lbs of torque vs 100lbs? lol
F#ck it then up the boost to 30lbs and ripper up....haha
mareshow
Active VIP Member
Interesting hypothesis, I am wondering that as well. considering that my temperature runs lower (according to the temp gauge) than a stock etec, I'd be curious of my crank life as well. That being said maybe break it apart this summer and check?
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
Did I say it doesn't matter? You just assume from my post that I am saying it doesn't matter.
What I am adding though that with extra fuel could crank life actually benefit in some ways.
This appears to be a sensitive topic for you.
sent from a top secret location
sick1
Active VIP Member
just my two cents.. my aerocharged etec went down in two thousand km.. skirted a piston took out crank.. 5000.00 thank you very much.. wouldnt go more than a season on stock pistons.. was runn in 50:1 premix and 10lbs boost.. from now on top end every 1500km for me...
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
Did you put single ring pistons back in?
Was it a 11 or 12? Premixed, so you deleted the oil injection?
The thick ring on the stock pistons works well in rich conditions. Most doos are richer than they need to be from the factory. Single ring pistons can be less prone to detonation failures as well.
But start running the sled leaner and the single ring heats up quicker. The single rings also flutter more at high rpm. The powertek made peak power at 8150 rpm. The etec was first recommended to run 8000, then 7900 rpm. Is 7900 peak performance? Or due to single ring piston failures was the peak rpm brought down to compensate for failures and improve reliability? Without the ability to change the stock injection it is difficult to tell.
On boosted etecs do you maintain a max 7900 rpm?
I am not trying to argue with anyone but answer some of my own questions.
There is no disputing the top ends on these sleds do not last forever. For my own piece of mind 2500-3000 kmis a max for mountain use. The cranks in recent sleds have benefited from the clutches being indexed for better vibration control, but lost out on fuel cooling. The auxiliary fuelers on the turbo kits may or may not be helping this.
I know the turbos use a thicker reed peddle. But are the chipping and cracking like a stock etec?
sent from a top secret location
Was it a 11 or 12? Premixed, so you deleted the oil injection?
The thick ring on the stock pistons works well in rich conditions. Most doos are richer than they need to be from the factory. Single ring pistons can be less prone to detonation failures as well.
But start running the sled leaner and the single ring heats up quicker. The single rings also flutter more at high rpm. The powertek made peak power at 8150 rpm. The etec was first recommended to run 8000, then 7900 rpm. Is 7900 peak performance? Or due to single ring piston failures was the peak rpm brought down to compensate for failures and improve reliability? Without the ability to change the stock injection it is difficult to tell.
On boosted etecs do you maintain a max 7900 rpm?
I am not trying to argue with anyone but answer some of my own questions.
There is no disputing the top ends on these sleds do not last forever. For my own piece of mind 2500-3000 kmis a max for mountain use. The cranks in recent sleds have benefited from the clutches being indexed for better vibration control, but lost out on fuel cooling. The auxiliary fuelers on the turbo kits may or may not be helping this.
I know the turbos use a thicker reed peddle. But are the chipping and cracking like a stock etec?
sent from a top secret location
Last edited:
No not really..have taken out my fair share of motors tho...
I agree the extra lubrication could help the life of the crank. The etec lubricates the crank with oil already, not in the old fashion 2stroke way, it directly injects places it needs it. This is why Fredw had such a hard time getting his etec oil delete to work.
Guess my answer should have been: No the crank is not a person,,it does not know why more
force is being exerted on it,and if you say it sucks and go get a pro, you wont hurt its feelings,,
But it definatly feels all the extra force being exerted on it,,not in a ouch this hurts sort of way
tho... Its more of a Im just a hunk of metal,, only designed to take so much force sort of
way...LOL
Last edited:
mareshow
Active VIP Member
I'm using stock reeds. My sled also seems to use more oil than normal, which i am perfectly okay with. I'm running 100% av gas as well. I maintain the 7900 rpm but sometimes i'll get a spike (snow conditions) also you can smell when you are running lean or rich and with the boost it box it seems to more on the richer side. What would your idea be for crank life in a stock sled? I give my sled breaks throughout the day (usually based on clutch temp) I let it cool down for a bit then off i go again.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
It would be interesting to see what your reeds look like after a year running the turbo. Especially stock reeds. The reeds in the etec are prone to chipping and flaking. At most I have seen 1200-1300 miles on a set. Many people never check their reeds though. One of my theories is that they are drying out due to no fuel passing over them. A secondary fueling system might cure this. If it does the stronger my assumption becomes.
Crank life in the etec by all reports has been good. Yes there is higher temps in the case, but no fuel is washing away the oil that is being injected. So, with that, is it better to have direct injection and good lubrication even though higher temps, or is adding fuel with the chance of washing away lube.
The cranks life is subject to more than just lube, temps and forced induction. Components like clutch balance, bearing seals and so on can reduce the overall picture.
A over bore etec setup pulls over 100 ft lbs of torque throughout most of the rpm range yet there isn't anymore concern about cranks in them. Personally my feeling is if the cranks are true, everything else is maintained like clutch components and run out is checked periodically, a turbo crank should last just as long as a stock etec crank.
For a turbo build I would likely pull the motor before it has any miles, have the crank trued and run dual ring pistons. I am not saying that it wouldnt lead to a failure but it would give me greater peace of mind.
If someone else's idea is to rebuild the motor every year so be it. I just would like to believe there are easier and more cost effective ways.
sent from a top secret location
Crank life in the etec by all reports has been good. Yes there is higher temps in the case, but no fuel is washing away the oil that is being injected. So, with that, is it better to have direct injection and good lubrication even though higher temps, or is adding fuel with the chance of washing away lube.
The cranks life is subject to more than just lube, temps and forced induction. Components like clutch balance, bearing seals and so on can reduce the overall picture.
A over bore etec setup pulls over 100 ft lbs of torque throughout most of the rpm range yet there isn't anymore concern about cranks in them. Personally my feeling is if the cranks are true, everything else is maintained like clutch components and run out is checked periodically, a turbo crank should last just as long as a stock etec crank.
For a turbo build I would likely pull the motor before it has any miles, have the crank trued and run dual ring pistons. I am not saying that it wouldnt lead to a failure but it would give me greater peace of mind.
If someone else's idea is to rebuild the motor every year so be it. I just would like to believe there are easier and more cost effective ways.
sent from a top secret location
mareshow
Active VIP Member
Interesting opinions. Dave at TSS also agrees with you that a turbo *if installed and run correctly* wont affect piston or crank life at all. I've never pulled apart an etec so i wouldnt know what to look or check for. But as far as reeds go i was going to replace mine to be proactive, however, dave believes that you do not wear out reeds and that its more of a they are either good or their done. I kinda disagree though because recently i have been hearing more of my reeds than what i believe is normal (extra chatter). But what do i know? The Sled still runs and idles fantastically so i'm not sure.
I do not want to spend the money and rebuild every year because i think this is old school thinking. I think with these modern setups and if you treat the problems immediately you shouldnt have too many problems. Maybe a top end rebuild though but again its in Dave's opinion (experience IMO) that you dont have to worry about the top end in the etecs and instead have to worry about the cranks more.
Not trying to argue here ither, if you feel ok with running a Turbo etec mulitple seasons
with out a tear down thats up to you.
Just my 2cents on dual ring pistons for a turbo etec tho,, Well acctually this is what
Bob Micku told me when i was looking at dual ring pistons. He says not to run them,
they give you a pound or 2 extra compression at best, you have twice as much ring friction
more wear on your cylinders, and twice as likely to break a ring and suck it threw your turbo.
Now thats just what Bob says,, they have been turboing sleds a long time before they
became main stream in sledding. Hes kinda old and senile tho so take it for what its worth.
with out a tear down thats up to you.
Just my 2cents on dual ring pistons for a turbo etec tho,, Well acctually this is what
Bob Micku told me when i was looking at dual ring pistons. He says not to run them,
they give you a pound or 2 extra compression at best, you have twice as much ring friction
more wear on your cylinders, and twice as likely to break a ring and suck it threw your turbo.
Now thats just what Bob says,, they have been turboing sleds a long time before they
became main stream in sledding. Hes kinda old and senile tho so take it for what its worth.
sick1
Active VIP Member
Well this setup was on an 11. all stock oiling system. 100LL @ 50:1.. stock reeds were completely destroyed at 600 km.. ran tdr kevlar after that.. checked them after 1200km still new.. also when checking them looked at piston intake side skirts and crank through intakes... was at least a 1/16 of oil coating the crank and internals.. oil in bottom end looked real good.. i found it hard to believe i dropped a skirt but it happened.. i stick with the factory single ring pistons... i havent seen the longevity out of the dual ringers... o2 readings always 12.5 or 12.3, a little rich but id rather be on the safer side.. i watch rpms but i really dont go for 7900 with 10lbs boost if im between 7700 to 7900 rpm im satisfied.. so turbos off for the rest of the year.. havent decided if i want to go through all the headaches again... gas and oil is sounding real good right about now.
Similar threads
