heres something to pick your brains....bent my rails today

[Work2Ride]

LOL

I got in trouble last time I posted a picture... but what the hell!


Is that you in the kitty cat costume and the old lady?

 

[maxwell]

LMAO NOPE!!!

they switched costumes for?? some reason??

 

[brewster]

So ive been through 2 sets of rails so far this season. First ones are stock xp 154" rails that I had powdercoated black and they bent after a little bit of abuse. I had rail stiffeners on that setup. The second set lasted 5 miles up the trail at allen creek, 154" iceage rails powdercoated black by a company local to edmonton. After a bit of research I've heard 7000 series aluminum will anneal or soften from 350-500deg, must be farenheit. They powdercoat them at 400deg. I also had them rush the job to get it done faster and am wondering if they might have cranked up the oven temp a bit more to get the powder to cure faster. Anyways I'm not a happy camper but I think it my own fault and will definately buy another set of ice age rails and will get them anodized instead. I do believe there isnt any heat involved and more like a chroming process.

 

[kanders]

So ive been through 2 sets of rails so far this season. First ones are stock xp 154" rails that I had powdercoated black and they bent after a little bit of abuse. I had rail stiffeners on that setup. The second set lasted 5 miles up the trail at allen creek, 154" iceage rails powdercoated black by a company local to edmonton. After a bit of research I've heard 7000 series aluminum will anneal or soften from 350-500deg, must be farenheit. They powdercoat them at 400deg. I also had them rush the job to get it done faster and am wondering if they might have cranked up the oven temp a bit more to get the powder to cure faster. Anyways I'm not a happy camper but I think it my own fault and will definately buy another set of ice age rails and will get them anodized instead. I do believe there isnt any heat involved and more like a chroming process.

Brewster, although the jury is still out on the whole "does powder coating weaken aluminum" debate, I can tell you that anodizing is not the lesser of two evils since it is not an "evil" at all. Anodizing is an 8 step process that electrochemically builds a controlled amount of aluminum oxide on the surface of the alloy which actually "grows" out of the base aluminum. It only affects the surface and is only .0005" thick. The reason it is so durable is that aluminum oxide is the second hardest natural compound in existance, second only to diamond. The hottest part of the process is only 180 degrees F, cooler than boiling water. I'm not here to start a powder coating versus anodizing battle since there are things that anodizing can't do like work on steel etc. but as I've mentioned before, I have personally seen how a powder coated aluminum part twisted as a result of the heat curing process. I have a vested interest in this discussion since I own a local anodizing business but I would not post false information here just to promote my business. I refer alot of business to local powder coaters when I feel it's best handled by them but there are many instances where anodizing is clearly a better choice. Much of it is of course personal preference.

I think something worth noting here is that although there have been thousands of parts on sleds powder coated including many rails, that with sleds getting lighter and lighter every year, some parts including rails are getting thinner and thinner. If some of these parts are engineered to be on the edge of their strength threshold (like some of the newer rails) then those might be the parts that are more sensitive to high heat processes. Kev

 

[jeffg463]

Sorry for your luck Maxwell, but it sounds like besides a little time and energy you're okay.
At the risk of sounding dumb, why do guys choose powdercoating over anodizing? Is it simply because of the shinyness? Or are there more color choices? Easier to keep clean?

And Kanders, I think you are "righter" than the rest with that "lighter and lighter" and "strength threshold" mumbo jumbo great stuff and where's your shop?

This was a great thread, very educational and had a great movie also! (courtesy of Bogger) I would expect no less from Maxwell:d

 

[rknight111]

kevin has anodized my rails from when I built my sled 3 years ago. I've ridden it quite hard and never had a bent rail. The snow doesn't seem to stick to the anodized parts either.

 

[kanders]

Sorry for your luck Maxwell, but it sounds like besides a little time and energy you're okay.
At the risk of sounding dumb, why do guys choose powdercoating over anodizing? Is it simply because of the shinyness? Or are there more color choices? Easier to keep clean?

And Kanders, I think you are "righter" than the rest with that "lighter and lighter" and "strength threshold" mumbo jumbo great stuff and where's your shop?

This was a great thread, very educational and had a great movie also! (courtesy of Bogger) I would expect no less from Maxwell:d

Jeff
The reasons people would choose powdercoating over anodizing are varied but is usually personal preference or ease of access since we are the only anodizer in the area and there many powder coaters. There are some areas where powder coating has an advantage such as with materials that cannot be anodized like steel or cast aluminum since cast has a lot of impurities added as filler or to make the casting process work better. When dealing with better quality alum alloys in extrusions,forgings, billet parts or parts stamped from sheet the advantages are many:
The coating grows out of the aluminum so no weight is added
The coating being only .0005 thick allows parts to fit back together with out scraping or sanding at the area where parts mate.
If scratched through, there is no further lifting or peeling occuring later from corrosion building under the surface as can happen with PC parts.
In the case of extruded or rad type coolers, anodizing actually promotes heat transfer as opposed to paint or PC which reduces cooling effectiveness.
Last but not least, in my opinion nothing else looks as great as an anodized part especially when it has been polished before anodizing.
My shop is in St Albert and you can PM with an inquiry if you have any more questions you would like answered. Kevin

 

[maxwell]

the only reason i powdercoat is simply for color. powdercoating has endless colors and combinations/additives.

i may start heading the annodizing way...

 

[tmo1620]

Just wondering can u anodize rails green? And another question whats the cost on anodizing the rails, might be a good thing to do this summer:d

 

[kanders]

Please email me at kanders@ocii.com and I will be happy to answer any of your questions. I don't want to hijack this thread to do business, sorry.

Just wondering can u anodize rails green? And another question whats the cost on anodizing the rails, might be a good thing to do this summer:d

 

[kanders]

Just wanted to make a change to my email address in case anyone has more questions about the anodizing process.
The new one is kevin.anodizing@gmail.com.
Have a great sledding season everyone.

 

[Circled-Mistake]

yep i crossed some creeks.thats the only thing i could think of. nothing deep or out of the norm i didnt do with my stock ones or the 174 rails.

i know in the powdercoating process they bake the material and it reaches fairly high temps....can anyone see this weakening the material? you can buy ice age rails coated so..

The heat needed for powder-coating is no more than what your jhousehold oven can put out... Ive used an oven to cure powder coating lots of times and had no issues with strength and overheating...... Don't think heat tempering is an issue here...

 

[cs5]

wait until your first BJ..... your list will quickly change...

OMG That cracked me up, made the last 7 pages worth the read OK I read all 14 pages and I'm still rolling on the floor, thanks guys.