Has ISIS gone too far?

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

But even when Bush was in power for 8 years I might add, not one report about finding any substantial amount of WMD's was released. If when he was in the white house they had found something significant you bet the administration would have said something to make their leaders decision look justified. But they didn't. Because there wasn't anything. When Obama came in, then it wasn't until several years after that anything about what was found came to light. And it was minimal at that. It was all BS. And now there is a huge mess left to clean up.

They never found them in Iraq, they found the bulk of the weapons in Syria. They found the factory in Iraq. Like I said, the American people didn't want the war to begin with. Even after 9/11, most still didn't agree with going Bin Laden hunting.
Your right about the minimal part though. That's the trouble with weapons like that though, very little and very devastating. The mainstay of Saddams trial though was based on his handling of the botched attempted to kill him.

I firmly believe they need to get rid of ISIS ASAP. Then get the hell out and let them fight their own civil war to determine if Iraq is going to be ruled by Shiite or Sunni Muslims. Also, I believe ANY further interference in Iraq as far as training the army, helping the political system get up and running, re-establishing infrastructure and other projects needs to be headed by a middle eastern assembly of countries. They understand the culture, the land and the people far better than any western country ever will.

I would love to agree with you, but it's going to be near impossible. Some believe the US is trying to bring peace, and give them our way of life. Some have said they went for oil. Others though, (the crazy tinfoil folks) say that we are throwing gas on the fire, in hopes of the whole place burning down. Trouble is the facts, like it or not, support only one of those theories.

 

[rzrgade]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

But even when Bush was in power for 8 years I might add, not one report about finding any substantial amount of WMD's was released. If when he was in the white house they had found something significant you bet the administration would have said something to make their leaders decision look justified. But they didn't. Because there wasn't anything. When Obama came in, then it wasn't until several years after that anything about what was found came to light. And it was minimal at that. It was all BS. And now there is a huge mess left to clean up.

I firmly believe they need to get rid of ISIS ASAP. Then get the hell out and let them fight their own civil war to determine if Iraq is going to be ruled by Shiite or Sunni Muslims. Also, I believe ANY further interference in Iraq as far as training the army, helping the political system get up and running, re-establishing infrastructure and other projects needs to be headed by a middle eastern assembly of countries. They understand the culture, the land and the people far better than any western country ever will.

You left out two rather important issues of the bush era....
#1 Ask a Kurd how minimal saddams WMD supply was.
#2 After Saddam invaded a sovereign country ( Kuwait) where does he stop next?

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Quite simply as I stated earlier, imo Russia (Putin) is far more dangerous than Isis is ,or ever will be. In the big picture . This is why we should be concerned with the Russian situation,more so than the thugs of Isis. In terms of world destabilizing,Russia has the ability both economically and militarly to unlease pure havoc.

Close. Putin is power hungry. You are correct in saying that the world should be concerned, but to say we should be afraid is wrong. FWIW, the people of Ukraine would be far better off siding with Russia then the rest of the EU.
In order for Putin to get what he wants, he is not burning people in cages, or burying children alive, or encouraging people around the globe to aimlessly and randomly kill non believers. Basically, don't stand in the way, and you'll be fine. Russia is NOT what it used to be, and although less then perfect, it really doesn't seem much different then what we have here today, or in our near future.

isis is nothing more than a band of religious warlords,destined for a quick demise. Now I am not saying there will no more Islam terrorists left there, there most certainly will. However they like so many before them will never unite enough to really alter the global landscape....they already have Jordan,Iran,Turkey,the Kurds and the rest of their neighbours breathing down there neck.....there days are numbered!

The world is a small place. They have already altered the global landscape, look how the world changed after 9/11.

You have Iran on that list. It's a very strange relationship, IRAN and the US on the same side. For some strange reason, as of late, Obama seems to encourage Iran in there quest for 'nuclear power'... it's all a very tangled mess.
A real powerhouse, and TRUE ally, in that neighborhood is Israel. It's strange as to why they seem to be just watching everything unfold.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

You left out two rather important issues of the bush era....
#1 Ask a Kurd how minimal saddams WMD supply was.
#2 After Saddam invaded a sovereign country ( Kuwait) where does he stop next?

They say history repeats itself. If you do enough reading, Saddam might not have been the monster he was made out to be. A dictator yes. A nice guy, no.


Gulf War Documents: Meeting between Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie | Global Research

Lots of reading, I know. BUT, some of it is hard NOT to believe.

There are dictators of the world who are far worse then Saddam. Why, if they are in the business of stopping people like that, did they stop with, or even choose Saddam?? Why not go to Iran, or Venezuela? They have similar resource pools to harvest, with assholes for leaders?

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

But even when Bush was in power for 8 years I might add, not one report about finding any substantial amount of WMD's was released. If when he was in the white house they had found something significant you bet the administration would have said something to make their leaders decision look justified. But they didn't. Because there wasn't anything. When Obama came in, then it wasn't until several years after that anything about what was found came to light. And it was minimal at that. It was all BS. And now there is a huge mess left to clean up.

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran | Foreign Policy

Like I said, politics. They KNEW they were there.

 

[Joholio]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Why would anyone even watch that chit?? What would you expect someone burning to death to look like.
I know I wont be watching that crap on purpose ever.

I haven't watched it and won't...

And in regards to the O-P?? Yes, IS extremists have gone too far and I hope their peers can keep them in check and encourage them to either "get along" or face immediate consequences from neighbouring countries. Sadly this will mean somewhat more of a police state by all governments worldwide. Not all bad things if we can agree to agree.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Your agenda is funny, not the poor airforce pilot...obviously !
As you seem very sure of your self & facts please enlighten us with your specific sources....
inpaticular your source on Russian involvement in the Ukraine ?
Has Russia under Putin overstepped its boundaries in the Ukraine , in your opinion....yes or no ?

Took some reading to verify from multiple sources. This whole thing is a VERY tangled mess, but it seems to be, by all accounts, totally connected.

1. Eurasian Economic Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ADDED EDIT- might save you some google time. Sorta ties it all together
3.

Again, there is lots of reading if you do even a small amount of looking.

 

[LBZ]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

They never found them in Iraq, they found the bulk of the weapons in Syria. They found the factory in Iraq. Like I said, the American people didn't want the war to begin with. Even after 9/11, most still didn't agree with going Bin Laden hunting.
Your right about the minimal part though. That's the trouble with weapons like that though, very little and very devastating. The mainstay of Saddams trial though was based on his handling of the botched attempted to kill him......

Exactly my point. They didn't find anything in Iraq. What they did find was old stock and factories destroyed in the gulf war. In all the inspections by the UN and IAEA after the gulf war, they also never found anything. So they either went in on bad intelligence or went in just to get Saddam to finish what senior started. All they needed was an event to get the ball rolling. 9/11 was that event and they jumped on it as there were a small rebel Al Qaeda force in Iraq (partly made up by current ISIS members). They used Bin Laden as a reason to get support for their going into Iraq, but as everyone knows now, he was never there.

You left out two rather important issues of the bush era....
#1 Ask a Kurd how minimal saddams WMD supply was.
#2 After Saddam invaded a sovereign country ( Kuwait) where does he stop next?

What happened to the Kurds happened in 1988, and it was supposed to be aimed at the Iranian army that had just taken over Halabja although the Iranian army was nowhere near the areas they hit. Lots of speculation on the reasoning behind this. Some say it was a F'up, others say it was to punish and kill as many Iranian Kurds as possible. This was also many years before before the second invasion.

As I said before, the gulf war destroyed most of what they had. Where the leftovers went is anyones guess although they did find some of it in Syria as said earlier. The supposed WMD stash they were looking for the second time also was not just chemical but nuclear as well. And they never got anything substantial. Also the gulf war crippled saddam, along with threats and pressure from Iran. He had little left and barely enough power to control his own country let alone invade someone else's. I'm pretty sure if he had, they wouldn't have found him hiding in a hole and rolled over the capital in just 3 weeks.

Bottom line IMO is that the US f'd it all up by taking out Saddam, just like they f'd up and helped Al Qaeda take power in Afghanistan in the 80's when they behind the scenes supported them in their war against the USSR. Then left it all up to themselves to sort out the mess. Hello terrorism. And then in Iraq, they took out the only person capable of controlling the crazies and then it was a free for all of rebels and terrorist organizations to try and take control. If you look at the history of IS, they were nothing until Saddam was gone, then they blew up after Al Qaeda was all but eliminated from northern iraq.

Not sure what the answer is, but I damn sure believe the solution does not include the US alone.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Not sure what the answer is, but I damn sure believe the solution does not include the US alone.

The only reason that makes sense for getting rid of Saddam was to control the PRICE of oil. As you said, he broke after fighting Iran, and trying to rebuild his country. The Americans basically gave him permission to go into Kuwait, knowing full well that would be the perfect excuse. Had they left him alone, Saddam would have flooded the market, crashing oil prices. They needed to have control over the flow.
People don't like to believe this, but it makes sense. Look at Iran.

The more one reads, it's very easy to see. Religion only makes a great distraction for the masses. Oil is, and has always been the reason for other medling in there business, just not for the reason you would think. They need to keep control of it, so they control the PRICE of it.
That is why they started the Petrodollar in the '70s. Thats is also why we see what is happening in regards to Europe, Russia and China.

 

[52weekbreak]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

RATTLESNAKE LOGIC
After the Boston bombing the news media spent days and weeks trying to determine why these men did what they did. They wanted to know what America did to make these brothers so angry with us. They want to know why these men were not arrested before they did something so terrible. The media is in a tizzy about this new era of homegrown radicals, and about why they could live among us and still hate us.
Here in West Texas, I have rattlesnakes on my place, living among us. I have killed a rattlesnake on the front porch. I have killed a rattlesnake on the back porch. I have killed rattlesnakes in the barn, in the shop, and on the driveway. In fact, I kill every rattlesnake I encounter. I kill rattlesnakes because I know a rattlesnake will bite me and inject me with poison. I don’t stop to wonder why a rattlesnake will bite me; I know it will bite me because it’s a rattlesnake and that’s what rattlesnakes do.
1. I don’t try to reason with a rattlesnake. I just kill it.
2. I don’t try to get to know the rattlesnake better so I can find a way to live with the rattlesnakes and convince them not to bite me. I just kill them.
3. I don’t quiz a rattlesnake to see it I can find out where the other snakes are, because (a) it won’t tell me, and (b) I already know they live on my place. So, I just kill the rattlesnake and move on to the next one.
4. I don’t look for ways I might be able to change the rattlesnake to a non-poisonous rat snake…I just kill it.
Oh, and on occasion, I accidentally kill a rat snake because I thought it was a rattlesnake at the time. Sorry, but I know that for every rattlesnake I kill, two more are lurking out there in the brush. In my lifetime, I will never be able to rid my place of rattlesnakes.
*Do I fear them? No!
*Do I respect what they can do to me? Yes! And because of that respect I give them the fair justice they deserve—I kill them.”
Maybe as a country we should start giving more thought to the fact that the jihadists are just like rattlesnakes, and act accordingly.

 

[snopro]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Would be great if you could reason with a rattlesnake. Try it and let us know how it works out for you?

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

RATTLESNAKE LOGIC
After the Boston bombing the news media spent days and weeks trying to determine why these men did what they did. They wanted to know what America did to make these brothers so angry with us. They want to know why these men were not arrested before they did something so terrible. The media is in a tizzy about this new era of homegrown radicals, and about why they could live among us and still hate us.
Here in West Texas, I have rattlesnakes on my place, living among us. I have killed a rattlesnake on the front porch. I have killed a rattlesnake on the back porch. I have killed rattlesnakes in the barn, in the shop, and on the driveway. In fact, I kill every rattlesnake I encounter. I kill rattlesnakes because I know a rattlesnake will bite me and inject me with poison. I don’t stop to wonder why a rattlesnake will bite me; I know it will bite me because it’s a rattlesnake and that’s what rattlesnakes do.
1. I don’t try to reason with a rattlesnake. I just kill it.
2. I don’t try to get to know the rattlesnake better so I can find a way to live with the rattlesnakes and convince them not to bite me. I just kill them.
3. I don’t quiz a rattlesnake to see it I can find out where the other snakes are, because (a) it won’t tell me, and (b) I already know they live on my place. So, I just kill the rattlesnake and move on to the next one.
4. I don’t look for ways I might be able to change the rattlesnake to a non-poisonous rat snake…I just kill it.
Oh, and on occasion, I accidentally kill a rat snake because I thought it was a rattlesnake at the time. Sorry, but I know that for every rattlesnake I kill, two more are lurking out there in the brush. In my lifetime, I will never be able to rid my place of rattlesnakes.
*Do I fear them? No!
*Do I respect what they can do to me? Yes! And because of that respect I give them the fair justice they deserve—I kill them.”
Maybe as a country we should start giving more thought to the fact that the jihadists are just like rattlesnakes, and act accordingly.

You know, if you swapped Jihadist with Elitest, it would read the same.

For every action, there is an equally opposite reaction. I am in no way a sympathizer, but I can almost understand the reason they are pissed off... I think.

 

[CUSO]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

I dunno about that.. I would rather believe Wikipedia over your theory..Iraq needed high oil prices to recoup from their Iran event.

Look under tensions with kuwait..first couple of sentences..

The only reason that makes sense for getting rid of Saddam was to control the PRICE of oil. As you said, he broke after fighting Iran, and trying to rebuild his country. The Americans basically gave him permission to go into Kuwait, knowing full well that would be the perfect excuse. Had they left him alone, Saddam would have flooded the market, crashing oil prices. They needed to have control over the flow.
People don't like to believe this, but it makes sense. Look at Iran.

The more one reads, it's very easy to see. Religion only makes a great distraction for the masses. Oil is, and has always been the reason for other medling in there business, just not for the reason you would think. They need to keep control of it, so they control the PRICE of it.
That is why they started the Petrodollar in the '70s. Thats is also why we see what is happening in regards to Europe, Russia and China.

 

[john s]

Jordan is bombing the chit out of them I saw on the news with the help of America.


Sent from my iPhone while wishing the snow was gone so I can go dirt biking.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

I dunno about that.. I would rather believe Wikipedia over your theory..Iraq needed high oil prices to recoup from their Iran event.

Look under tensions with kuwait..first couple of sentences..

Its not my theroy.

Most people would rather not believe it either. The thought of elected officials manipulating a system to acheive power and wealth at the expense of others is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[CUSO]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

huh? I am talking of the so called manip. of oil prices in your theory.. Quite the opposite from my findings;

Its not my theroy.

Most people would rather not believe it either. The thought of elected officials manipulating a system to acheive power and wealth at the expense of others is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[CUSO]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

Well, if I was a hostage.. My preferred form of death would be from an alliance in a surprised attack, instead of a long winded mental anguished painful death.. These a$$holes have no mercy and you have a prolonged death sentence anyways..

but that would be my own opinion..

ISIS has just claimed that Jordan has killed their US female hostage with an air strike.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Re: Has ISIS gone to far?

huh? I am talking of the so called manip. of oil prices in your theory.. Quite the opposite from my findings;

If Saddam nationalized the oilfields of Iraq (pulled out of OPEC and the Petro dollar) he would have been in total control and free to sell to whom ever for how ever much.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Should i explain market share, and how competition for it works??

 

[rzrgade]

There is more BS than oil in this thread..........