Globe and Mail

[glacier mt lodge]

Here is an article that was in the Globe and Mail yesterday...

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

A bit of a positive spin from the Media...reaching out for help rather than painting all sledders with the same "ugly" brush.
It's also interesting that the Avy Assoc sees an opportunity to improve the communications within the sledding market regarding avalanches.

Here is an article that was in the Globe and Mail yesterday...

 

[glacier mt lodge]

A bit of a positive spin from the Media...reaching out for help rather than painting all sledders with the same "ugly" brush.
It's also interesting that the Avy Assoc sees an opportunity to improve the communications within the sledding market regarding avalanches.

Yes it is nice to see something postive for a change..

 

[ferniesnow]

Here is an article that was in the Globe and Mail yesterday...

Yes, a nice twist.

We were talking last evening about the conditions this winter and one of the things that came up was the misconception of the avalanche bulletins. I, as person who lives and rides in the mountains exclusively, pay attention to the fine print in the bulletin (the various layers whether it be hoar, sun crust, wind loading, rain, or whatever). Maybe the weekend riders or the tourist type rider doesn't? The bulletin says "Considerable", "Moderate", or whatever and that is all they see or care about. The only time they get concerned is when it is "Extreme". It has been dangerous all winter but we have not seen "Extreme" and seldom have we seen "High" this winter (in the Elk Valley) but the conditions (the fine print in the bulletin) have been horrendous.

It takes a fair amount of reading to decifer the real meaning of the bulletin. The sneaky little words like "fatal", "spooky", "sketchy", to name a few that are slipped into the inner workings of the bulletin.

Do you think that, along with the chart, there might be a set of bold descriptor(s) right below the chart summarizing the conditions, then the normal information following?

I will forward the thoughts to the CAC today.

 

[Modman]

ferniesnow: I like your idea. Most people (with or without AST training) don't know what it all means. I agree, overall conditions could be "considerable", but maybe could have been classified as "extreme" based on the information provided lower down in the report. A sort of "general rating" as similar to now, but also something like a cautionary rating (or bolding of factors affecting the snowpack) based on the potential identifiers involved in the snowpack (similar to the fine print now but stronger emphasis on the factors out there - maybe even included in the coloured category space now?).

AST training for the backcountry will not solve the issue. Lots of backcountry skiers do not have the training and will not be regulated as they do not ski "groomed" areas. So sledders who ride where trail passes are required would be the only ones that require AST training then?

AST training is only good if you apply the knowledge (wherever you ride), this is something we as sledders need to work on. The simplest evaluation tools in the world are great and easy to use, but if no one applies the knowledge when they are on the hill then it won't matter. I'm not sure how we go about working with other sledders to ensure that choices on the hill are the right ones, but I'm open to suggestions.

Based on these comments towards the bottom:
"It may mean getting the associations to be the front line on this, saying, if you want a trail pass, we need to see some proof you've taken avalanche safety courses."

 

[RETODD]

They seem to be in the process of adjusting the scale...I completed a survey that was geared to get my interpretation of where I’d go based on the current scale vs a picture of some terrain. Not too sure of the survey is still being offered.

 

[muffin]

I really wonder about some people sometimes, All this info about the avy,s and some one ,s are still ignoring the warnings. Two fridays ago some notsosmart riders were trying to climb the same slope that took Doug Murray from us last year.yes i realize conditions change but !!! . Some of us old timers to that area no about that area for years ,it is a very nice spot but why test it on a year that has had so much tradgety ? And yes these person where informed to no avail. We cant stop riding , But how about riding a little smarter :d

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Education - I'm surprised how many riders I have spoken to that "were not" aware that the Avy Risks have been high most of the year.
Invincible - many riders believe they can outsmart an Avy. Education is a big part but "nature rules the mountainside" as we found out with Albert Becks death....rode into an area, thought it was a bit sketchy, never touched the hill and as he exited it fell and he perished.
Risk takers - just don't worry and will ride risky areas even though they know what might/will happen and that's ok...it's their choice.

No rider is a bonehead, it's a matter of understanding the risk and doing what you want to or think is right. None of us head out thinking "Today I will Die", however those who choose to ignore the warnings are putting themselves at a much higher risk.

No rider should chastise another for choosing not to ride...It's personal and should be respected. We are all in the sport together and the sport is quickly changing due to peoples belief that all motor vehicles are destroying nature. We've now added Possible Death and Rescue Costs to the mix. There will now be more attention on us and our sport...negative attention.

So be careful if you choose to ride in the Mountains this spring and remember guys and gals, it's that riders choice not ours. Areas that have never Avy'd in the past are letting go so keep your eyes open and ride safe.

I really wonder about some people sometimes, All this info about the avy,s and some one ,s are still ignoring the warnings. Two fridays ago some notsosmart riders were trying to climb the same slope that took Doug Murray from us last year.yes i realize conditions change but !!! . Some of us old timers to that area no about that area for years ,it is a very nice spot but why test it on a year that has had so much tradgety ? And yes these person where informed to no avail. We cant stop riding , But how about riding a little smarter :d

 

[heyjude]

Education - I'm surprised how many riders I have spoken to that "were not" aware that the Avy Risks have been high most of the year.
Invincible - many riders believe they can outsmart an Avy. Education is a big part but "nature rules the mountainside" as we found out with Albert Becks death....rode into an area, thought it was a bit sketchy, never touched the hill and as he exited it fell and he perished.
Risk takers - just don't worry and will ride risky areas even though they know what might/will happen and that's ok...it's their choice.

No rider is a bonehead, it's a matter of understanding the risk and doing what you want to or think is right. None of us head out thinking "Today I will Die", however those who choose to ignore the warnings are putting themselves at a much higher risk.

No rider should chastise another for choosing not to ride...It's personal and should be respected. We are all in the sport together and the sport is quickly changing due to peoples belief that all motor vehicles are destroying nature. We've now added Possible Death and Rescue Costs to the mix. There will now be more attention on us and our sport...negative attention.

So be careful if you choose to ride in the Mountains this spring and remember guys and gals, it's that riders choice not ours. Areas that have never Avy'd in the past are letting go so keep your eyes open and ride safe.

So right, SBR.

We try to get as much information as possible out to everyone riding the mountains:

- Avalanche risk signs are kept updated and are in plain sight at the bottom of each of our groomed trails. Another sign is in town next to the highway advising riders going to ungroomed areas what the avalanche risk is.

- The people collecting for the trail passes are also warning riders to stay safe and asking them if they are carrying their avalanche gear.

- The trail collectors do not have the authority to turn away the riders that do not have the correct gear. There are actually VERY few riders here that are not fully equipped. Most of these people have travelled in excess of 5 hours to come sledding here (and spend their dollars in our town). Pretty hard to turn them away altogether. We can only warn them. After that, it is ultimately up to them to decide whether they want to take the risks.

The deaths this year are a reminder to us not to get too complacent.

 

[Sledderglen]

If riders still want to go and have a added risk just make sure things are good at home. Riders need to be prepared for the worst. Things like messages,wills,final resiting sites hug your kids and kiss your wife. You never know better to be prepared for the worst and make it easy for the ones you will leave behind. JMHO

Like the old Boy Scout motto Be Prepared

 

[Burns]

Education - I'm surprised how many riders I have spoken to that "were not" aware that the Avy Risks have been high most of the year.
Invincible - many riders believe they can outsmart an Avy. Education is a big part but "nature rules the mountainside" as we found out with Albert Becks death....rode into an area, thought it was a bit sketchy, never touched the hill and as he exited it fell and he perished.
Risk takers - just don't worry and will ride risky areas even though they know what might/will happen and that's ok...it's their choice.

No rider is a bonehead, it's a matter of understanding the risk and doing what you want to or think is right. None of us head out thinking "Today I will Die", however those who choose to ignore the warnings are putting themselves at a much higher risk.

No rider should chastise another for choosing not to ride...It's personal and should be respected. We are all in the sport together and the sport is quickly changing due to peoples belief that all motor vehicles are destroying nature. We've now added Possible Death and Rescue Costs to the mix. There will now be more attention on us and our sport...negative attention.

So be careful if you choose to ride in the Mountains this spring and remember guys and gals, it's that riders choice not ours. Areas that have never Avy'd in the past are letting go so keep your eyes open and ride safe.

I agree SBR but the big one you don't mention is COMPLACENCY. Comments like "I have never seen that slide before" or "I have ridden the area for 20 years" are the ones that get me. Mother nature doesn't care what the CAC ratings are or how many years you have ridden the area. A slope with snow can slide - period. Some are more prone to slide and some have bigger consequences than others, but at the end of the day the fundementals are all the same. What was considerable last year and didn't drop can slide any other year.

I would be all for changing the rating system to something that forces users to READ the report - not glance at the rating and say "Oh - just considerable I rode that all year last year".

At the end of the day sometimes things do just happen at the wrong time and there is nothing that can be done. I agree it's a riders choice - it just sucks to see so many bad choices being made when all the information is there to make good choices. Just my rant hope not to offend anyone.

Mike

 

[Modman]

If riders still want to go and have a added risk just make sure things are good at home. Riders need to be prepared for the worst. Things like messages,wills,final resiting sites hug your kids and kiss your wife. You never know better to be prepared for the worst and make it easy for the ones you will leave behind. JMHO

Like the old Boy Scout motto Be Prepared

That's just good advice anyway though. You can die in an accident here in the city, not just on the hill, good to have the affairs in order just in case you're crossing the street and wham! Too many people taken wayyyy too soon from us. In high school, my friends mom died, we were 17, she was 46. Healthy, vibrant lady, non-smoker, average weight, just a regular person, not doing anything dangerous, died in the garden of a massive heart attack, no warning signs, nothing. You never know when your time will be up.

 

[ferniesnow]

Here is a word doc that I sent to the CAC. The message is included with the ratings chart and it is in bold.

 

[CR500R]

I was going to go on a big rant here but have decided against it. I know that what I do is that when I check the CAC rating I bump it up one, then when out sledding take notice of the snowpack for myself, observe the hills to see what kind of activity is visible, and we practice the unwritten rules, for the most part, 1 sled on the hill, avoid the hills with the massive cornices hanging above, when climbing the hills always watching way above us, turning out before getting it stuck, always looking behind when coming down the hill, parking away from the run-outs, etc. I'm not staying home on the couch so gotta do what it takes to reduce the risk. Ride safe.

 

[senorjeem]

I believe that there is a great deal of weight put on the CAC descriptors, however, sometimes people are associating "Considerable", or "Moderate" as relatively safe, and "Extreme" would mean that perhaps they would stay out of old slide paths, steep and deep etc. People need to have the notion reinforced that, "Considerable", or even "Moderate" usually requires an external trigger (insert sledder here) to set off a slide, and that those conditions are frequently at least as hazardous, if not more so than the "Extreme" ratings, where slides are occurring under their own weight, without relying on an external trigger. To make matters worse, it is extremely common to see more than one sled on a potential slide area, because there is a built in desire to go up and help your buddy out, when he is stuck, pointing straight up (usually so you can heckle him), thereby doubling or tripling the external loading, and multiplying the number of potential victims, that you and I are going to have to try and keep track of when the white death comes to call. There is a time and place for straight up, balls to the wall, hair on fire climbing, but, I don't think we are going to see it for the remainder of this season. Meadows and trees for me. I wanna see all of you on the lake this summer!! Please Play Safe !!