Get Behind This People- Avy Card Idea - Everyone Please Read!

[AvyDaze]

Hi folks -

I'm following this thread with interest as we are always looking for new ideas on how to encourage more people to take training.

This sounds like a great grassroots effort. I'm not sure if the Avalanche Centre will be able to run a project like this - but maybe some of the clubs and associations can?

We're struggling and will go in the red this year - i'm cutting back on managers days already, trying to keep the forecasts going etc...

John Kelly
Operations Manager, Canadian Avalanche Centre

 

[Stocky]

Everyone on this thread is in agreement that there needs to be more awareness out there, however, I do not think that mandatory attendance at an AST course is the answer. I work for CP Rail and deal with avalanche control every day of the season. I have taken the mandatory courses that CP runs every year, I have also taken the beacon training that Zac's ran this season. I think this is enough education this year for me, and next year I may attend another course outside of my work. I have a better appreciation of the hazards of avalanches every time I attend these courses. It is out of that respect that I make my decision on whether to go, where to go, what hill to climb, where to park when I'm watching, etc. And now I should display a card showing my avy credentials as well as my trail pass? I personally don't agree with that.
My point here is that those that go out during high avalanche periods are doing so of their own free will and personal choice. The ones you didn't hear about are those that rode in the proper areas given the conditions. I'll bet half of them have not taken avalanche training, they just made smart riding decisions.
In my opinion, the only way these tragedies will be avoided in the future is if the government shuts down the hills during peak avalanche periods. It will be a sad day when that happens, but its the only way they can almost guarantee nobody goes sledding or skiing and puts themselves in jeopardy.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Zacs]

Hi folks -

I'm following this thread with interest as we are always looking for new ideas on how to encourage more people to take training.

This sounds like a great grassroots effort. I'm not sure if the Avalanche Centre will be able to run a project like this - but maybe some of the clubs and associations can?

We're struggling and will go in the red this year - i'm cutting back on managers days already, trying to keep the forecasts going etc...

John Kelly
Operations Manager, Canadian Avalanche Centre

Hey guys, time to put our money where our mouths are.

There have been some awesome discussions related to avalanche safety over the past week. Many have expressed frustration over the image of our sport and would like the public to see a better side.

Members are putting forth great ideas to make backcountry snowmobiling safer and to improve the image of our sport, but none of this happens without cash.

Smiley (Sherry Waldroff-Beck) lost her father and a close friend last season in two separate avalanches. Sherry started , a fundraiser in late February.



To date the support by the media has been great. Sherry has been using her personal time to deliver great messages and hope for our community as a whole.

Considering the bad press we have been getting it was good to see her face in some of the newscasts to show that sledders were already on track with raising awareness before these recent incidents.

The structure for this fundraiser is all in place. All the funds raised will go directly to the Canadian Avalanche Centre for snowmobile specific resources.

Cash or checks are accepted for Candle orders and $cash$ donations.


*NEW* Credit Cards for Cash Donations - please follow this link for other options.



There is less than a week left of this fundraiser and the $$ generated through cash donations and candle sales is seriously under expectations.

Considering the negative press that backcountry sledding is receiving as of late, wouldn't it be great to generate a good news story?!

 

[Free Rider]

I don't think having mandatory wallet cards or making people take courses will change anything. The sledder up Eagle Pass had his Avy Course and that didn't help him. I think people need to pay a little more attention to the backcountry warnings and when they say the risk is high or even considerable, maybe don't go and live to ride another day. As long as people ignore the bulletins, we are always going to see people getting into trouble.

 

[snochuk]

I believe the card is a good idea as is the AST1 training, I believe it will be mandotory soon and I will have no issues if this occurs. More training = more knowledgable people = more correct decissions made and more people on the hill to speak up = more saved lives. This is preventative measures, a desk jockey govt employee will just find more fees for us to pay = no saved lives.

Some people will never be saveable, and will continue to try to be statistic no matter what. Let's try to teach and save the rest now.

 

[Modman]

I like the card, and I like the idea, I do think that this should be a mandatory item for the backcountry. Good on you GasCan for putting it forward. Sledders - lets not let this initiative fall by the wayside.

I also think that as a sledding community we need to embrace a stronger "safety culture" attitude IMO. Saying things like "no skills - no riding in my group" is great, but without a whole culture to promote it - sometimes these words don't mean much. Its hard to take some people seriously (and I've seen this before) where some guy is adamant about not riding with someone who doesn't have an AST 1 course, but "Mr. Safety" was also the crazy a$$ who drove to the trailhead at 140 km/hr, passing people on corners while towing his 4 place and texting on his cellphone - then has the gall to say that he won't ride with someone who doesn't have avy training.

Just like a driver's license, having a little plastic card in your wallet won't save your life. Also like a driver's license, just because you took the training doesn't mean you instantly know everything. (although you'd never know this driving around Calgary....). Maybe staying home or picking a less exposed riding area on a certain day is a better choice. We need to use our heads all the time, not just the day we took the training.

just my $0.02.

 

[GasCan]

I like the card, and I like the idea, I do think that this should be a mandatory item for the backcountry. Good on you GasCan for putting it forward. Sledders - lets not let this initiative fall by the wayside.

You know what Modman...i'll ride with you anytime!

 

[ZRrrr]

Any new idea is a good idea...

However, every day in this country new drivers licences are handed out after multiple driving tests, and yet there are still many, many bad drivers out there. Lots have years of experience as well, yet I would not set one foot into a car with many people who are licenced and have years of experience.

My fear would be that having a card and showing it would give a false sense of confidence, or give noon carded people false trust in a card carrier.

Just an opinion, and like I said, any new idea is a step in the right direction. A little tweaking is all that's needed.

 

[pete gads]

I agree but that is not going to work for every group. I think that these big hp sledders will still play on big hills because the little hill are no challange. I ride a sled that i lighten up but left stock motor, the more times i have to try a hill to get over the more fun i have. There will still be sledders that have to climb as high as they can on big hills because its boring on small hills or they have 250 hp and small hills are no fun and then there friend has to try and out do him. It up to each person to make the right decission.

 

[snochuk]

I agree but that is not going to work for every group. I think that these big hp sledders will still play on big hills because the little hill are no challange. I ride a sled that i lighten up but left stock motor, the more times i have to try a hill to get over the more fun i have. There will still be sledders that have to climb as high as they can on big hills because its boring on small hills or they have 250 hp and small hills are no fun and then there friend has to try and out do him. It up to each person to make the right decission.

How about an under 180HP licience and an over 180HP licience. Over 180 costs more and has different requirements and cost?

 

[Modman]

I agree but that is not going to work for every group. I think that these big hp sledders will still play on big hills because the little hill are no challange. I ride a sled that i lighten up but left stock motor, the more times i have to try a hill to get over the more fun i have. There will still be sledders that have to climb as high as they can on big hills because its boring on small hills or they have 250 hp and small hills are no fun and then there friend has to try and out do him. It up to each person to make the right decission.

The big HP guys need to realize that even though the small hills are "too easy", they can ride the big stuff another day. With big HP and big hills comes big responsibility...and a big brain and big risk management is needed. Everyone needs to realize that regardless of how much HP you have, playing it safe in the trees or on the flats when the conditions are extreme is probably a better choice. Sure riding the trees may not be their ideal day of "fun", but c'mon.....are there really any "bad" days when you are sledding? We always have fun when we go out, no matter what!

If a sledder's only avenue of "fun" on their sled is stabbing hills all day, then they are missing way more opportunities than they realize. If their skills are one dimensional and they can only go up and down in a straight line, would you want to ride with them anyway - certified or not?

 

[Modman]

How about an under 180HP licience and an over 180HP licience. Over 180 costs more and has different requirements and cost?

I have two sleds - one is under 180 HP, one is over 180 HP. Do I need two licenses? How does that work for the turbo guys who run 170 HP at the parking lot then jack the boost up top? I could see a lot of guys buying the "cheap" license when their sleds are really well over 180 HP, and who would police it?

Good idea and good thinking - not sure the application would work though.

 

[snochuk]

I have two sleds - one is under 180 HP, one is over 180 HP. Do I need two licenses? How does that work for the turbo guys who run 170 HP at the parking lot then jack the boost up top? I could see a lot of guys buying the "cheap" license when their sleds are really well over 180 HP, and who would police it?

Good idea and good thinking - not sure the application would work though.

You're probably right, tough to inforce and problem peps will work around it. Oh well, scrap that one.

 

[JoHNI_T]

How about an under 180HP licience and an over 180HP licience. Over 180 costs more and has different requirements and cost?

lmao thats racist,,,,,


p.s. power helps but I know you could probably outride a few turbo's snowchuck... lol

 

[snochuk]

lmao thats racist,,,,,


p.s. power helps but I know you could probably outride a few turbo's snowchuck... lol

Racist? I resent that comment! Why it's been at least three days since I was last called that!:d

 

[JoHNI_T]

Racist? I resent that comment! Why it's been at least three days since I was last called that!:d

bahahaha too funny ok lets call it sexist ahh that dont work,,, fugg it we all need turbo's

 

[Modman]

....... fugg it we all need turbo's

Are you drinking again?????? LOL

Fixed it for ya......

....... fugg it we all need 4 stroke propane turbo's

 

[JoHNI_T]

Are you drinking again?????? LOL

Fixed it for ya......

thank you for that corection,,, it was a long weekend lol.....


Hey I will run a 2 stroke turbo if it comes with a mechanic and a black VISA card so I can fly it around and get it fixed hells give me 3 sleds I will never be down....

 

[Zar]

The more I read the posts the more I see this as this being history re written just like the boat operator's card back in the late 90's . I mean this as a compliment to Gascan's idea and Snowchuks / JohNIT's comments. a few boating accidents and then a system was created to ensure that operators are competent. No matter what system - you can't cure stupid people but this system can only help.

 

[recguy]

Can't fix stupid. you got that right. Education and common sense, will get you home.