GasCan
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In hind sight of the recent events, and slides in recent years I have been doing a lot of reading, and a lot of thinking. Another post here that is asking clubs to support Avy training is what got me started on this idea, and I think this is a good idea so please read it before firing off or supporting it.
Of the dozen or so people I have ridden with this year, a few recently completed AST training while others have some formal training, good field skills, or old school experience. In addition to this are some folks I ride with that have had some formal training, but perhaps many years ago? While many of us ride in groups one never really knows who has what skills or what sense of conditions until you really probe them or worse; put those skills to the test. Although I try to encourage people to get trained in backcountry Avy skills, many are out there riding with folks who do not possess formal Avy training, and we all know that creates the potential for problems.
To me, the best promotion to address this issue starts right here in the popular forums where perhaps we could start a section regarding riding with those who are trained, and get a sticky thread within that section to suggest mountain riders promote riding only with those who have proof of formal AST training. This would ensure promotion that everyone in your riding group has an appropriate level of training when out there on the hills, and that they have all of the right knowledge to ride in avalanche territories and backcountry area's where slides are not only common, but prone to happen.
I don't want to come of sounding arrogant or narrow minded about this, but it's an extremely important topic and there are far too many people on the hills that do not practice this, and/or many that do not have full Avy skills. Many do not accertain all relevant snow conditions or details before pulling a hill, or riding a particular area and that needs to be done more. This has been evident of late where at least two forum users here on S&M have posted rants about people parked in serious terrain traps at the bottom of some popular hill climb areas, including warnings to those about riding certain hills/aspects with serious avalanche risk, or areas where it's actually prohibited. Quite often these warnings are going out to unskilled people who reply with the common "I know what I'm doing" response. Don't worry about me, just move on! Like WTF people?
Maybe if more people said they'd only ride the backcountry with those who can demonstrate or prove they have Avy Skills, we'd see less people pulling unstable areas or people who would avoid sitting parked in terrrain traps and runnout chutes while they spectate. It's just an idea, but forums and forum users would benefit from having a hill pull section with a sticky thread right at the top that speaks to this topic. Something that makes this topic more up front, a section that speaks to the risks and concerns about Avy's, and a section that promotes the topic so more people go out and get formally trained?
The second thing I think would better our community would be for those who have avalanche training to better demonstrate they have these pertinent skills so we know who's who when we're on the hills. This could be achieved by training centers like Zacs, Hangfire, Etc. to promote plastic cards instead of certificates and issue those cards when someone completes their AST-1/2 Avy training. On one side could be the persons name with the course outline that they have completed, and perhaps a date of completion so one knows their skills are fresh. It could also include an emergency number right on the card and a hole punched so it can be worn on a lanyard or attached to their sledding jacket. On the other side of the card could be some kind of slogan like " No Skills - No Riding" in my group".
If this type of slogan was out there and supported proudly, many more would get the required training knowing that others would not ride with them unless they had it? It's a great idea if you ask me, and I'd wear one with no problem.
I know many already foster that last sentiment where they will only ride with people who have skills and/or equipment, but that needs to be done more to ensure we all have Avy skill levels when riding in the hills and backcountry. Maybe if that section suggested for the forum had another sticky to further promote groups that will only ride with those who are trained we'd see it become more common place. The idea of the cards could then be fostered to support those groups who actually practice real world skills where they wear the cards on their jackets/packs when they're out there sledding to further promote it. Here's an idea for a card that I came up with and a slogan to promote a higher level of skills and expectations for sledding groups.
I know there are always going to be those who don't care, or say they don't need something like this, but I firmly believe that we as a community have to get smart about this stuff and I think this would be a great start. Zac's offers a certificate of training and I am sure the other training groups do the same. Maybe they can start printing laminated AST1/2 cards that backcountry folks can tag to their suits showing they have the skills, and I'm sure the CAC would also get behind this? The reverse side of the card could have an adopted logo that states something like "No Skills - No Riding" to help promote the cards and their acceptance of Avy training in our sport.
We all know how many people travel from places far and wide apart to get a couple weekends of sledding in at a popular area, and a great many (not all...but many) have no formal training whatsoever. Some just head to Golden rent a beacon, and hit the hills without a clue, while others might be half trained or simply need a bit more to become fully versed. That kinda stuff has got to stop, and the best way to promote this idea starts right here on the forums where quite a few do their research before jumping out to ride for the first time, or before a first visit to a mountain area.
Another good idea is for the clubs to get behind an idea like this and post similar signs at the trail heads and staging areas prompting people to get their card to show they have AVY training. Who knows, this could be the start of something new to promote more training and less burials/accidents. I think a card to be worn like a ski tag on each sledders jacket would better promote who has the knowledge and who doesn't. Got a card, you can ride with me anytime...don't have one, I'll point you in the direction to get a card and the right training to show your well versed in Avalanche awareness and search/recue. This would get out to the clubs, club riders and maybe those who don't belong to a club where eveyone could take notice of the important factors here. I also think a No Skills - No Ride card would really catch on within our sport if printed on the one side of the card and worn by the sled heads.
Chime in here people and show your support of this idea. If it's hammered in and catches on...perhaps the forum mods will start an appropriate section for this topic and a sticky to get this idea rolling on the card issuance by trainers. I know many who say they'll only ride with those who have the skills/training. Now lets show how important it is and maybe we can grow this idea. It all starts here and everyone knows that this "unsanctioned" community could make things better by having a common card showing who has Avy Training, and who doesn't?
Please show thanks for this post if you like this idea and lets get the mods to take notice of it's importance? We need a forum section for this, a sticky thread or two on real world training and it's importance to sledders, and someone to start with the cards! We need the mountain riders, trail riders, AST trainers, forums, and club behind this idea for it to work. Who's on board?
Of the dozen or so people I have ridden with this year, a few recently completed AST training while others have some formal training, good field skills, or old school experience. In addition to this are some folks I ride with that have had some formal training, but perhaps many years ago? While many of us ride in groups one never really knows who has what skills or what sense of conditions until you really probe them or worse; put those skills to the test. Although I try to encourage people to get trained in backcountry Avy skills, many are out there riding with folks who do not possess formal Avy training, and we all know that creates the potential for problems.
To me, the best promotion to address this issue starts right here in the popular forums where perhaps we could start a section regarding riding with those who are trained, and get a sticky thread within that section to suggest mountain riders promote riding only with those who have proof of formal AST training. This would ensure promotion that everyone in your riding group has an appropriate level of training when out there on the hills, and that they have all of the right knowledge to ride in avalanche territories and backcountry area's where slides are not only common, but prone to happen.
I don't want to come of sounding arrogant or narrow minded about this, but it's an extremely important topic and there are far too many people on the hills that do not practice this, and/or many that do not have full Avy skills. Many do not accertain all relevant snow conditions or details before pulling a hill, or riding a particular area and that needs to be done more. This has been evident of late where at least two forum users here on S&M have posted rants about people parked in serious terrain traps at the bottom of some popular hill climb areas, including warnings to those about riding certain hills/aspects with serious avalanche risk, or areas where it's actually prohibited. Quite often these warnings are going out to unskilled people who reply with the common "I know what I'm doing" response. Don't worry about me, just move on! Like WTF people?
Maybe if more people said they'd only ride the backcountry with those who can demonstrate or prove they have Avy Skills, we'd see less people pulling unstable areas or people who would avoid sitting parked in terrrain traps and runnout chutes while they spectate. It's just an idea, but forums and forum users would benefit from having a hill pull section with a sticky thread right at the top that speaks to this topic. Something that makes this topic more up front, a section that speaks to the risks and concerns about Avy's, and a section that promotes the topic so more people go out and get formally trained?
The second thing I think would better our community would be for those who have avalanche training to better demonstrate they have these pertinent skills so we know who's who when we're on the hills. This could be achieved by training centers like Zacs, Hangfire, Etc. to promote plastic cards instead of certificates and issue those cards when someone completes their AST-1/2 Avy training. On one side could be the persons name with the course outline that they have completed, and perhaps a date of completion so one knows their skills are fresh. It could also include an emergency number right on the card and a hole punched so it can be worn on a lanyard or attached to their sledding jacket. On the other side of the card could be some kind of slogan like " No Skills - No Riding" in my group".
If this type of slogan was out there and supported proudly, many more would get the required training knowing that others would not ride with them unless they had it? It's a great idea if you ask me, and I'd wear one with no problem.
I know many already foster that last sentiment where they will only ride with people who have skills and/or equipment, but that needs to be done more to ensure we all have Avy skill levels when riding in the hills and backcountry. Maybe if that section suggested for the forum had another sticky to further promote groups that will only ride with those who are trained we'd see it become more common place. The idea of the cards could then be fostered to support those groups who actually practice real world skills where they wear the cards on their jackets/packs when they're out there sledding to further promote it. Here's an idea for a card that I came up with and a slogan to promote a higher level of skills and expectations for sledding groups.
I know there are always going to be those who don't care, or say they don't need something like this, but I firmly believe that we as a community have to get smart about this stuff and I think this would be a great start. Zac's offers a certificate of training and I am sure the other training groups do the same. Maybe they can start printing laminated AST1/2 cards that backcountry folks can tag to their suits showing they have the skills, and I'm sure the CAC would also get behind this? The reverse side of the card could have an adopted logo that states something like "No Skills - No Riding" to help promote the cards and their acceptance of Avy training in our sport.
We all know how many people travel from places far and wide apart to get a couple weekends of sledding in at a popular area, and a great many (not all...but many) have no formal training whatsoever. Some just head to Golden rent a beacon, and hit the hills without a clue, while others might be half trained or simply need a bit more to become fully versed. That kinda stuff has got to stop, and the best way to promote this idea starts right here on the forums where quite a few do their research before jumping out to ride for the first time, or before a first visit to a mountain area.
Another good idea is for the clubs to get behind an idea like this and post similar signs at the trail heads and staging areas prompting people to get their card to show they have AVY training. Who knows, this could be the start of something new to promote more training and less burials/accidents. I think a card to be worn like a ski tag on each sledders jacket would better promote who has the knowledge and who doesn't. Got a card, you can ride with me anytime...don't have one, I'll point you in the direction to get a card and the right training to show your well versed in Avalanche awareness and search/recue. This would get out to the clubs, club riders and maybe those who don't belong to a club where eveyone could take notice of the important factors here. I also think a No Skills - No Ride card would really catch on within our sport if printed on the one side of the card and worn by the sled heads.
Chime in here people and show your support of this idea. If it's hammered in and catches on...perhaps the forum mods will start an appropriate section for this topic and a sticky to get this idea rolling on the card issuance by trainers. I know many who say they'll only ride with those who have the skills/training. Now lets show how important it is and maybe we can grow this idea. It all starts here and everyone knows that this "unsanctioned" community could make things better by having a common card showing who has Avy Training, and who doesn't?
Please show thanks for this post if you like this idea and lets get the mods to take notice of it's importance? We need a forum section for this, a sticky thread or two on real world training and it's importance to sledders, and someone to start with the cards! We need the mountain riders, trail riders, AST trainers, forums, and club behind this idea for it to work. Who's on board?
