Cold seize

[thepwood]

If you warm up an engine for about 5 minutes, what could cause your engine to cold seize? I only have 53km's on my 2009 M8

 

[Crazy8]

Exactly how cold was it when this happened?

 

[thepwood]

A little more info, I took it out of my garage which is kept at +20 and I let it warm up outside for about 5 min. the temp outside was about -15

 

[pipes]

A little more info, I took it out of my garage which is kept at +20 and I let it warm up outside for about 5 min. the temp outside was about -15

shouldn't have cold seized in IMO

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

I agree with pipes, cold seize normally take more than that.

 

[thepwood]

Well the dealer said it did. they said there going to try and get it under warrenty but a cold seized engine isnt covered

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Seems suspicious to me, I normally let my sleds (at -15) warm up for about 5 minutes and away I go - however I'm not heavy on the throttle for a bit to make sure the fluids are moving though the cooling system.

Well the dealer said it did. they said there going to try and get it under warrenty but a cold seized engine isnt covered

 

[magnet]

i say impossible for a cold seize. engine was at +20 ran for 5 min would have got warmer not colder. doesn't matter if it was -30 outside. when the engine is running its warming up at -30 when it starts at -30. so it would have been nearly at running temp i would say before you took off. however... the last time you rode it was for how long and how long did it warm up for that time. if you where taking off your truck or trailer and just started it and ran it into the garage you could have done it in then. then just took a bit to get worse. same thing just happened to my buddy. took it for a rip friday night up and down his alley showing off to his brother in law. next day got 1 mile from home and kaput. cold seize failure destroted pto side piston.

 

[thepwood]

I left home, went to the gas station which is about 1/2 a km, filled up, drove about 8km's away at varied throttle and the motor went. when the motor went I was close to full throttle

 

[Summitric]

i left home, went to the gas station which is about 1/2 a km, filled up, drove about 8km's away at varied throttle and the motor went. When the motor went i was close to full throttle

story changes..... The dealer knows all this? Were you ditch banging snow drifts? Was there lotsa powdered snow to play in? When you left the gas station, did you let it warm up again for a few seconds before "rippin'"??

 

[thepwood]

Before that day I only took it out once, my dealer told me to break it in by varying the throttle for 1.5 tanks. I drove it around the lake about 10 times. the only light that came on was the ECU 21 code. I stopped Phoned the dealer and they said that code meant bad fuel, I was running reg fuel with octane boost and some oil in the fuel

 

[thepwood]

No not to much snow, It was about dec. 17th or so, I was in the ditch following the highway, no more than 6" of snow, and leaving the gas station its about 1/4 km to the ditch so I was Idling through town. should have had more than enough time to warm up.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Not a cold seize then - full throttle could be many things went wrong.

I left home, went to the gas station which is about 1/2 a km, filled up, drove about 8km's away at varied throttle and the motor went. when the motor went I was close to full throttle

 

[thepwood]

Dealer said there were marks on 4 corners of both pistons, talked to three different mechanics, they agreed that those symptoms mean cold seizure. They also said if the machine was air locked, it woulnt have a temp light on and when the coolant made it to the jugs. it could cause this.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

I'd trust the outside mechanics as a second opinion to the dealer. Sounds like you may have had a cold seize. Bad luck, sorry to hear about it.

Dealer said there were marks on 4 corners of both pistons, talked to three different mechanics, they agreed that those symptoms mean cold seizure. They also said if the machine was air locked, it woulnt have a temp light on and when the coolant made it to the jugs. it could cause this.

 

[sledslut]

are you for sure this is a cold seize? that typically will only happen from starting the engine, letting idle for 30sec and then HAMMERING off you know the guy in the parking lot after unloaded his sled from the trailer and then hes all of a sudden the fasted guy in the parking lot.

_________________________________________________________________________
to be sure. do a compression test cold WOT 5 pulls on either cylidner
then fill the top end with what ever oil you run.. just enough oil to put a layer of oil on top of the piston. do anothe compression test and if the compression goes up then its probably a cold seize.
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Cold seizure:

This is by far the most over used "seizure scape goat". It some how implies that the driver ran his engine in a way that caused the failure. At least 95% of the "so called" cold seized engines have had a very apparent problem elsewhere in the engine that the builder failed to see. Telling a customer that he cold seized the engine is an easy way for a mechanic to immediately reverse the guilt and the responsibility. If a freshly bored engine or a high performance engine were started from stone cold, and then run hard at high rpm within 30 seconds of the start up, it could very likely experience a true cold seizure. This happens because the aluminium piston would experience a radically faster rate of expansion in that 30 seconds than the cylinder does. The reason for this difference in expansion rate is two fold. First and foremost, the internal temperatures that the piston crown is exposed to at full load are on the order of 1500'C-2500'C. The gases passing through the exhaust manifold ports is also in this temperature range. The expansion rate caused by these temperatures is usually not a problem when the water entering the water jacket is preheated. During the first 30 operating seconds, cold incoming water will maintain the water jacket around the cylinder at "stone cold diameter" while the piston is becoming "full temperature diameter". On engines with properly sized pistons, the difference in these diameters becomes much more than even the best oils can withstand. Any engine that has been warmed up for 60 seconds or longer, would be virtually incapable of a "cold seizure"




Break in seizures:

The most common break in related seizure is usually caused by the ring not the piston. Some new piston rings come with a coating on their outer sealing surfaces. This coating seals to the cylinder wall in just a few operating minutes, which provides better power during the break in period. As the engine is breaking in, the Teflon eventually wears away and lets the hard surface of the ring come in from behind to provide the long term seal. The down side of this coating is that it makes for a dangerously small end gap during the first hours of operation. If the engine is run too hard too soon, the heat will cause the ring to expand in diameter which may drive the ring ends together and drive the ring surface hard against the cylinder wall. A piston ring that is being overheated in this fashion will easily have enough tension against the cylinder wall to scratch off the oil film which will begin the scoring/seizure process. A piston seized in this way will have heavy scoring around the entire diameter of the piston, with the ring usually locked into the groove all the way around as well.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Good to get some "expert advise" - thanks for stepping in SS.
Hey, great time in McBride over Christmas - Nice Jump Buddy.

 

[DRD]

So you were running around in freezing temps and low altitude with regular fuel with some crappy octane booster added?

 

[sledslut]

Good to get some "expert advise" - thanks for stepping in SS.
Hey, great time in McBride over Christmas - Nice Jump Buddy.

it was fun tell valemount when i hurt my wrist really bad.



and hey not a problem.. i dont like seeing ppl down from sledding with what ever they ride!!

 

[sledslut]

So you were running around in freezing temps and low altitude with regular fuel with some crappy octane booster added?

most arctic cats run are programed for regular fuel. thats all my buddy who has an M8 runs reg fuel everywhere. he tryed premium and runs like crap. so thats a hard one to say