Caribou Recovery Strategy Response

[deaner]

I think we should almost address the issues as TAXPAYERS rather than snowmobilers. One....it would highlight how much of our tax money is being completely and utterly wasted on a useless cause (ie. caribou arent going extinct.....just the ones that choose to live in the wrong spot), and two......we would appear more neutral and have a MUCH wider support group (ie. all taxpayers that dont like their money being wasted vs. just snowmobilers)

 

[MOMMA]

I think we should almost address the issues as TAXPAYERS rather than snowmobilers. One....it would highlight how much of our tax money is being completely and utterly wasted on a useless cause (ie. caribou arent going extinct.....just the ones that choose to live in the wrong spot), and two......we would appear more neutral and have a MUCH wider support group (ie. all taxpayers that dont like their money being wasted vs. just snowmobilers)

Dean that is such a good point!!

 

[moyiesledhead]

Time to correct some of this before we start believing it all.

Caribou area closers in BC where done based on one study. If caribou populations are on the increase in a area why change anything, I am referring to the Hart Ranges in BC.

There have been many studies done on Caribou, in fact they're one of the most studied animals on the planet. Our problem is....none of those studies showed scientific evidence that snowmobiles kill Caribou. Science doesn't matter for a species of convenience. There are presently no Mountain Caribou populations on the increase in B.C.

A little predator control would go a long ways also, I have never seen as many wolves as this winter

Predator control is being done, though not to the extent or by the methods needed to have any immediate impact. Trappers are being paid to target Wolves. Alternate prey, especially Moose, are being targeted through liberalized hunting regulations in areas adjacent to Caribou habitat. I call that sacrificing one species to save another....or the GOD complex.....when I'm being polite. Harsher words most of the time.

So hear is a question, if some native groups can block highways, burn police cars,fight the Canadian army with no concequenses, mabey we just start riding these closed areas and says screw you.

Maybe someday, and I'll be at the front of the pack, but we're not at that point yet. All it can do right now, and has been doing, is hurt us. Now.....if we see yet more closures imposed on us after this federal strategy is finalized, we may be at that point. Reading the document I don't see that direction being taken for snowmobiles, but we'll see. We may see some impact on ATV access. That was never ever mentioned as an issue in the past.

 

[rotormech]

Well put.

 

[MOMMA]

Props to Joydigger.com for the support.
The more we share, the more this message gets out.

Thank you Matt and Joydigger!
NEWS: MOUNTAIN CARIBOU ALERT YOUR ACTION IS NEEDED | joydigger.com

 

[monsterxlr8]

Sent the government my 2 cents as well. We as a community have a lot we can offer. We can do so much to help in this process if we are allowed to.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Props to Joydigger.com for the support.
The more we share, the more this message gets out.

Thank you Matt and Joydigger!
NEWS: MOUNTAIN CARIBOU ALERT YOUR ACTION IS NEEDED | joydigger.com

Trouble is.....we're preaching to the choir. How we educate the general non-snowmobiling public is something we've been struggling with for years. Without public support we're done.

 

[X-it]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/wsi/reports/4121_WSI_4121_RPT_2010_CARIBOU_CENSUS.PDF Hart Range Caribou populations, even though some where taken and placed in other area's. Caribou snowmobiling restrictions started in 2009

 

[moyiesledhead]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/wsi/reports/4121_WSI_4121_RPT_2010_CARIBOU_CENSUS.PDF Hart Range Caribou populations, even though some where taken and placed in other area's. Caribou snowmobiling restrictions started in 2009

Hart Ranges Population Trend:

____________________________________________________

Year Total Count Population Estimate

2010 447 560
2006 596 718
2005 463 558
2002 374 450

Although we would LIKE to say the population is declining after 2009 due to the snowmobile restrictions being put in place, there really isn't any evidence to support that. I personally don't want to lower myself to the level of environmental groups that cherry pick and fabricate the science to support their own arguments. I like to think we're better than that.

Although......I did it once, and it was quite a bit of fun throwing it back in their faces, so.......maybe! Interesting story for another time.

 

[X-it]

The number of caribou in the Parsnip and the Hart Ranges overall has increased
slightly since 2002 but the 2010 estimate in the Hart South was considerably lower than
in 2006 (Table: Hart Ranges Population Trend and Figure 2).


My position is if the herd is still growing in Parsnip part of the Hart Ranges why change anything. The torpy ..sande are one to keep and eye on as a small portion of the tropy snowmobiling is still allowed, and it is heavily used. If the population remains good we have more ammunition.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Be interesting to see the 2012 census. I have it somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[GT500john]

Anytime I've been out and seen wolves chasing wild life we go rescue what's tried to be eaten. It's wolves that are killing not sledders.

 

[X-it]

The study done was you fly over with helicopters, subdue the caribou, put radio collars on them. Then continually fly over because you know exactly where they are. So you can count them, count their calves and relocate a few to different areas. There findings where that snowmobiles moved them out of their prime calving areas and feeding areas based on radio collar results. Of coarse the helicopters had no effect on their findings. So this is the proof snowmobiles kill caribou.

 

[moyiesledhead]

The study done was you fly over with helicopters, subdue the caribou, put radio collars on them. Then continually fly over because you know exactly where they are. So you can count them, count their calves and relocate a few to different areas. There findings where that snowmobiles moved them out of their prime calving areas and feeding areas based on radio collar results. Of coarse the helicopters had no effect on their findings. So this is the proof snowmobiles kill caribou.

Not really. They've been doing radio collar studies on Mountain Caribou since the early 90's. Once they're collared they leave them alone and monitor from a distance. With the radio collars they were using back then they were checking 2 or 3 times per week. With the GPS collars they use these days they don't have to leave their computer. They never collar every animal, except for transplant animals that have already been captured anyway, so telemetry data is useless for counting Caribou. The South Purcell population that got the last transplants had no animals collared since 2000. They collared 6 just before the transplant so they knew where to drop the new animals off. Census' are done from fixed wing aircraft in the spring when tracks are easily followed to the animals. They do use helicopters for capture, but not for doing census'. Every study that indicates Caribou displacement by snowmobiles uses the words might, maybe, could.....to indicate a possibility based on opinion rather than science. The videos you've probably seen from the Deese Lake collaring/capture program were not from any study. They collared 20 animals in the fall, then went back and captured them the next spring to transplant to the South Purcells to feed the Cougars.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Here's a good video on the utter failure of the South Purcell transplant. The count of 5 remaining out of 20 is old. There's either 2 left, or none depending on who you talk to.

Steve Gordon - South Purcell Mountain Caribou Herd Augmentation - YouTube

 

[moyiesledhead]

Here's a video of the capture in Dease Lake of the animals they transplanted to the South Purcells to die.


Radio collaring caribou in October 2011 - YouTube

 

[rotormech]

They do caribou,moose,elk surveys evey with helicopters,I know I worked with a company that did all the surveys.every year the caribou with colors that are tracked are usually no where near sledding areas.this is around the kakwa area anyway.my riding partner that is a helicopter pilot does the serveys never has a fixed wing been used around here ,you wouldn't be able to maneuver close enough with a fixed wing in the mountains ,no way.big wolf cull going on right now.

 

[moyiesledhead]

They do caribou,moose,elk surveys evey with helicopters,I know I worked with a company that did all the surveys.every year the caribou with colors that are tracked are usually no where near sledding areas.this is around the kakwa area anyway.my riding partner that is a helicopter pilot does the serveys never has a fixed wing been used around here ,you wouldn't be able to maneuver close enough with a fixed wing in the mountains ,no way.big wolf cull going on right now.

Good to know. I'm only familiar with what they do in the South Purcells. Always fixed wing when they do a census here. Of course they only need to count 14 animals, so it's not that difficult.

 

[rotormech]

I don't think they have the gps colors here yet either,they still use radio telemetry,we still have big areas closed here to,and there isn't a caribou anywhere near these areas.

 

[moyiesledhead]

I don't think they have the gps colors here yet either,they still use radio telemetry,we still have big areas closed here to,and there isn't a caribou anywhere near these areas.

They're fairly new, and they still have some growing pains. They only showed up here when they did the abduction, oops....I mean "transplant" here in 2012. It definitely helped them find the one that took off to Montana, and the one that swam across Kootenay Lake and drowned in a creek. They were actually being satellite tracked by.....hmmmm, I don't remember if it was UVIC or UBC.....one of them anyway.