I have a big bore (860) kit on my XP154 with the recurved ECM from RK, with 50/50 mix it rocks pretty good and have never missed a day riding BUT Im always wanting more so my question is: can i turbo this sled with the current set up or do i need to bring the engine back to orginal and then turbo or should i consider NOS on the big bore. All day power would be nice though!
Big Bore turbo or NOS
- Thread starter lazor99
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maxwell
Active VIP Member
nitrous no question. there are some turbo kits that are working well on the xps. but also a 6000$ price tag. and they are not as easy to use as an electronically injected motor would be.
also
there are some machines with the 860 that will be turbod this season. but from what i last heard BB engine builders like SHR and RKT are working on a turbo big bore package. special pporting and pistons gaskets the works...specific for turboing. i cant confirm that.
drop the 1000$ on a nitrous system and that sled will rip even more.
look at other options aswell like a better suspension setup/clutching//gearing/lihtweight parts. that can really increase climbing ability.
everyone wants a turbo sled and for the xp the aftermarket RnD and kits have come along ways. some logging 3000+ miles. but in my eyes unless you are mechanically inclined and willing to do some tuning i would say stick with what you have its a good setup.
the etec is coming out and guaranteed there will be some better options in the next couple seasons for us doo guys.
also
there are some machines with the 860 that will be turbod this season. but from what i last heard BB engine builders like SHR and RKT are working on a turbo big bore package. special pporting and pistons gaskets the works...specific for turboing. i cant confirm that.
drop the 1000$ on a nitrous system and that sled will rip even more.
look at other options aswell like a better suspension setup/clutching//gearing/lihtweight parts. that can really increase climbing ability.
everyone wants a turbo sled and for the xp the aftermarket RnD and kits have come along ways. some logging 3000+ miles. but in my eyes unless you are mechanically inclined and willing to do some tuning i would say stick with what you have its a good setup.
the etec is coming out and guaranteed there will be some better options in the next couple seasons for us doo guys.
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DUSTINSPELLMAN
Active member
suspension is a big key roll alot of people over look 
can make a sled respond totally different from a stock skid.:d
power isnt everything unless yoursled is setup for it, doing power mods like you, i would have a full skid, different track and clutching dialed in before i thought of putting a turbo on BB.
nitrous tho, that would be on if i had a BB no ifs ands or buts. MY 2CENTS
BB for my sled are way to much for a 800cfi, so im turboing the d8 now and once that is done will be a timbersled front and rear suspension with a challenger xtreme
can make a sled respond totally different from a stock skid.:d
power isnt everything unless yoursled is setup for it, doing power mods like you, i would have a full skid, different track and clutching dialed in before i thought of putting a turbo on BB.
nitrous tho, that would be on if i had a BB no ifs ands or buts. MY 2CENTS
BB for my sled are way to much for a 800cfi, so im turboing the d8 now and once that is done will be a timbersled front and rear suspension with a challenger xtreme
maxwell
Active VIP Member
yeah if you are honestly looking at spending upwards of 6000. like mentioned
timbersled skid - longer challenger extreme. 2.5"
big bore - nitrous - lower the gearing - dj clutch kit - dynoport full exhaust.
would be a meeann sled.
a friend of mine has a turbo xp. dont get me wrong it rips. but when you get in the steep and deep it falls on its face and not because of the turbo...
stock skid poorly setup and wrong track selection---> challenger lite = trenching monster.
the stock 154 was outclimbing it. as soon as he got on the gas it would sink itself down to the center of the earth and go nowhere. to much power. incorrect means of transfering it to the ground.
timbersled skid - longer challenger extreme. 2.5"
big bore - nitrous - lower the gearing - dj clutch kit - dynoport full exhaust.
would be a meeann sled.
a friend of mine has a turbo xp. dont get me wrong it rips. but when you get in the steep and deep it falls on its face and not because of the turbo...
stock skid poorly setup and wrong track selection---> challenger lite = trenching monster.
the stock 154 was outclimbing it. as soon as he got on the gas it would sink itself down to the center of the earth and go nowhere. to much power. incorrect means of transfering it to the ground.
I was running a 40hp shot on my 900 crankshop. (based on doo bottom end) Now running a turbo on it and it is night and day. I've run both, there is no comparison. If money isn't a object, get the turbo. And you better know how to tune.
Big Bark
Active member
Cylinders get way to thin to run big bore and nitrous. I ran 860 with 50 shot last year and it seemed like on the sunny days with fresh I was riding a rental.
This year I am running Quantum Velocities Turbo on a stock bore with Bakers skid should be fun. 174 / 2.5" This is my last stab at it. If this falls through I will have to just get a stocker and learn how to ride
I think spray on a stock bore is OK and I think big bore and no spray is OK but you are taking a risk at the bb and spray. Dont get me wrong the sled absolutely rocked and I would not give up the good times while it was working but you you will have to pay to play. my first crack was a coolant transfer port the second I did not even ask it still ran at the end of the year but the jugs were cracked when we checked them during the back to stock bore process.
This year I am running Quantum Velocities Turbo on a stock bore with Bakers skid should be fun. 174 / 2.5" This is my last stab at it. If this falls through I will have to just get a stocker and learn how to ride
I think spray on a stock bore is OK and I think big bore and no spray is OK but you are taking a risk at the bb and spray. Dont get me wrong the sled absolutely rocked and I would not give up the good times while it was working but you you will have to pay to play. my first crack was a coolant transfer port the second I did not even ask it still ran at the end of the year but the jugs were cracked when we checked them during the back to stock bore process.
brycter
Member
turbo is the only way to go. we have 39 kits that have went out this month alone and not one complant about tunning. yes there is a learning curve and yes you do need o get it dial but when you do you will never go back.
we have 7 860 big bore kits out there som in canada and some in the states. you will need to get the compression down to 10:1.1 and make sure your porting is not way crazy but they work great.
us turbo guys learn more and more everyday. and that means we are building kits better and better. the xp has been out since 08 that is plenty enough time to r&d a sled. just go for it
you are looking a $4950 plus shipping that is the cheapest hp out there hand down.
ww.turboboyz.com
we have 7 860 big bore kits out there som in canada and some in the states. you will need to get the compression down to 10:1.1 and make sure your porting is not way crazy but they work great.
us turbo guys learn more and more everyday. and that means we are building kits better and better. the xp has been out since 08 that is plenty enough time to r&d a sled. just go for it
you are looking a $4950 plus shipping that is the cheapest hp out there hand down.
ww.turboboyz.com
Big Bark
Active member
The polished parts look great. Looks like you did a good job. Glad to hear they are working great do you have any videos or links?
On my sled Lakeside Motorcycle Service dropped the compression in the RK Tek head to 11.3 uncorrected which actually came out to 11.6 uncorrected when you factor in the gaskets etc. The custom pistons we have are stock compression. I plan on running 9 pounds on 100 octane with a max of 12 if I need it. The Quantum velocity turbo kit is intense. I can not beleive how much stuff is included for 4650.00 It has a Tial SS V band housing turbo with either a .64 or .86 exh housing (I got both) I hate internal gated or T flanged Turbos they belong on Stationary engines. Also I hate Synapse style BOV's. Synapse is junk. The kit with the new air box all the parts and battery weighs in at 46 pounds. We are starting the jetting at 410. It ditches the DPM and uses its own custom set up. It includes a electric fuel pump. I am not going to use Quantums AEM cheap gauges because lets face it who wants to look down in the chute. I will be running a Dash Daq and monitoring and LOGING the following. EGT, A/F, Boost, And Back pressure to see if the .64 housing is choking the set up at altitude.
Test and tune day is Wednesday the 15th at Quartz - Golden (easy out if needed) if anyone wants this kit but is nervous and wants to see it in real action. I have not had this much anxiety since I quit drinking
On my sled Lakeside Motorcycle Service dropped the compression in the RK Tek head to 11.3 uncorrected which actually came out to 11.6 uncorrected when you factor in the gaskets etc. The custom pistons we have are stock compression. I plan on running 9 pounds on 100 octane with a max of 12 if I need it. The Quantum velocity turbo kit is intense. I can not beleive how much stuff is included for 4650.00 It has a Tial SS V band housing turbo
with either a .64 or .86 exh housing (I got both) I hate internal gated or T flanged Turbos they belong on Stationary engines. Also I hate Synapse style BOV's. Synapse is junk. The kit with the new air box all the parts and battery weighs in at 46 pounds. We are starting the jetting at 410. It ditches the DPM and uses its own custom set up. It includes a electric fuel pump. I am not going to use Quantums AEM cheap gauges because lets face it who wants to look down in the chute. I will be running a Dash Daq and monitoring and LOGING the following. EGT, A/F, Boost, And Back pressure to see if the .64 housing is choking the set up at altitude.Test and tune day is Wednesday the 15th at Quartz - Golden (easy out if needed) if anyone wants this kit but is nervous and wants to see it in real action. I have not had this much anxiety since I quit drinking
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Big Bark
Active member
Big Bark
Active member
Here are some more photos.
I here so many negative things about turbo XP's and I hope this kit will flat out work. I will be very honest with my thoughts. Just about done should be out Monday for a tune day in Golden. I would ride it this week end but am stuck on call may go anyways well see.
I here so many negative things about turbo XP's and I hope this kit will flat out work. I will be very honest with my thoughts. Just about done should be out Monday for a tune day in Golden. I would ride it this week end but am stuck on call may go anyways well see.
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jaredszakacs
Active VIP Member
run a big bore and nos man way better than a turbo on an xp tunning is super lame back in the hills get a nicely done 860 somedifferent clutching and a 40 shot and you will be really happy with it! seen some xps w/turbos and well they flat out fall on there faces plus $6000 is a ton of cash you can bb,nos and better skid your xp and get better results than with a turbo
brycter
Member
here is some vids for ya
i will add some more later
YouTube - MOV00508.MPG
YouTube - Turbo Performance.wmv
YouTube - Turbo Performance Turbo XP 800
YouTube - Turbo Ski-doo XP
YouTube - 1200 skidoo Turbo By Turbo Performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ji4m52
YouTube - Turbo Mach-Z 1240 tuned at Advanced Dyno
Big Bark
Active member
lol try 10-15,000 to do it properly. Its all about evolution I had a 860 with a 50 shot last year. I never got a full season out of a set of jugs with out cracking them. Big Bore is way to thin. Either way I have my 860 RK Tek kit for sale with cracked cylinders (need to be sent away and welded) with new pistons / head etc etc for 1000.00 if anyone is interested send me a P.M. Also have a boondockers kit set up for XP 50 shot for sale 500.00.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
still havent told us how your turbo is running?
Big Bark
Active member
Its good up to 7 pounds boost which is not where we want to be. Geared it up 3 to try to get the clutching to hold in the feild and now it blows the track or might be hitting the end of the ramps.
Its getting a modifaction right now at Quantum Velocity to the intake tube because I will not be happy until we can run safely at 10 pounds boost with an Air Fuel Ratio of less than 13. Right now at 10 pounds it reads 13.5ish but I can not keep it off the Rev limiter and everytime the spark cuts the unburned air and fuel hits the sensor which can only ready O2 content and shows lean.
I have a Dash Daq on there and monitor and log, boost / back pressure / EGT X2 AFR and RPM and then it graphs it on the CPU after.
Boost is 10 PSI back pressure is 15PSI, EGT's have not got over 1200 but the clutching cant hold down here. AFR is 13.2 to 13.9.
Once Jeff is done with the new tube design that someone had out last weekend which I hear worked great I will try in the mountains. Probably a week yet before I get some real mountain feed back. The other ones he had done are all working great no issues but they are happy to run 6-7 pounds I have expectations to run as high as 12 so I am going to see if Jeff can safely get me there. The engine is built to handle 12 which was a good part of my cost. I guess he is making a few changes to the tube inside of the boost tube that the carb uses for its sensing line. I am not sure what changes he is making exactly but he said he will get me there. Also I am running a 64 exhaust housing and may switch it out to the 86 I did not think 15PSI BP was to high down here but want to log and see the differences.
Its getting a modifaction right now at Quantum Velocity to the intake tube because I will not be happy until we can run safely at 10 pounds boost with an Air Fuel Ratio of less than 13. Right now at 10 pounds it reads 13.5ish but I can not keep it off the Rev limiter and everytime the spark cuts the unburned air and fuel hits the sensor which can only ready O2 content and shows lean.
I have a Dash Daq on there and monitor and log, boost / back pressure / EGT X2 AFR and RPM and then it graphs it on the CPU after.
Boost is 10 PSI back pressure is 15PSI, EGT's have not got over 1200 but the clutching cant hold down here. AFR is 13.2 to 13.9.
Once Jeff is done with the new tube design that someone had out last weekend which I hear worked great I will try in the mountains. Probably a week yet before I get some real mountain feed back. The other ones he had done are all working great no issues but they are happy to run 6-7 pounds I have expectations to run as high as 12 so I am going to see if Jeff can safely get me there. The engine is built to handle 12 which was a good part of my cost. I guess he is making a few changes to the tube inside of the boost tube that the carb uses for its sensing line. I am not sure what changes he is making exactly but he said he will get me there. Also I am running a 64 exhaust housing and may switch it out to the 86 I did not think 15PSI BP was to high down here but want to log and see the differences.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
what are you running for clutching? how much pinweight. the turbo xps i rode had so much pin weight to keep the rpms down they were almost unrideable unless already rolling
Big Bark
Active member
Heading out tonight will be in Golden tommorow and staying at Renes lodge Friday night and you know where were going Saturday Better have a turbo to get in
See the log attached I just took a picure of my lap top. It is running rich with the pro jets turned out 3/4 turn down here. Once at the alpine I will shut them off. Jeff built me a new Peto? tube that fixed our original lean condition and as you can see by the log it is steady and running perfect.
I finally got it to hold the rev limiter geared it up 2 of stock
running 18 grams with 2mm rollers and 413 ramps which I am changing out for 441. shockwave is out 4 turns and on clicker one
Should work good at altitude.
It held 8300-8350 RPM but stayed off the limiter for 3-4 seconds across the feild by my work AFR was 12.1 to 11.9 which is fine if anything rich. EGT's maxed out at 1075.
Its got plenty of power even running rich and then when needed I will just dial down the pro jets. Main Jet is 370
I am not coming home until I have to so hopefully I will have some vids / pics late next week
Better have a turbo to get inSee the log attached I just took a picure of my lap top. It is running rich with the pro jets turned out 3/4 turn down here. Once at the alpine I will shut them off. Jeff built me a new Peto? tube that fixed our original lean condition and as you can see by the log it is steady and running perfect.
I finally got it to hold the rev limiter geared it up 2 of stock
running 18 grams with 2mm rollers and 413 ramps which I am changing out for 441. shockwave is out 4 turns and on clicker one
Should work good at altitude.
It held 8300-8350 RPM but stayed off the limiter for 3-4 seconds across the feild by my work AFR was 12.1 to 11.9 which is fine if anything rich. EGT's maxed out at 1075.
Its got plenty of power even running rich and then when needed I will just dial down the pro jets. Main Jet is 370
I am not coming home until I have to so hopefully I will have some vids / pics late next week
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Big Bark
Active member
Here is some honest feed back on everything with the sled
Ran great for a couple days
Then last week end
First major issue was a cold seize 4 cornered it I did not know you had to be extra careful warming up Fordged Pistons.
Blew a line of the carb that the BOV valve uses as a boost reference when the carbs are opened. This probably came off when I was replacing the pistons from above. No big deal but it was difficult to get the line back on.
Just struggled through 2 days of frusteration in Golden because there was 2 of us Evan with a 174XP turbo identicle to mine which never missed a beat and then mine ran like ch!t for 2 days. I would have pushed it over a cliff had I not taken his for a ride and realizing that it was everything anyone could ask for in a Sled. At 10PSI it pulls as hard or harder then a Nitro at 15PSI and it is still somewhat managable and rides like an XP.
Dropped my sled off at Quantum today because I gave up and he found the issue right away the Dyno Port pipe blew apart and the baffle was stuck right at the mouth of the turbo stoping 85% of the exhaust from coming into the charger. It explains the high coolant temps I had as well.
As for Jeffs altitude compensation design where you use Pro jets to bleed of Peto tube pressure it works perfect.
For those wondering what a 860 nitrous vs Turbo feels like. It is not even close. Not even in the same ball park. The difference between a stocker to a 860 with a double 5 shot is at least double to triple again for a turbo.
After Evan sled ran perfect both days I know this is the answer I was told not to run an aftermarket pipe but I did not listen.
I have some vids coming but it may be a bit before I get around to posting them to youtube.
Ran great for a couple days
Then last week end
First major issue was a cold seize 4 cornered it I did not know you had to be extra careful warming up Fordged Pistons.
Blew a line of the carb that the BOV valve uses as a boost reference when the carbs are opened. This probably came off when I was replacing the pistons from above. No big deal but it was difficult to get the line back on.
Just struggled through 2 days of frusteration in Golden because there was 2 of us Evan with a 174XP turbo identicle to mine which never missed a beat and then mine ran like ch!t for 2 days. I would have pushed it over a cliff had I not taken his for a ride and realizing that it was everything anyone could ask for in a Sled. At 10PSI it pulls as hard or harder then a Nitro at 15PSI and it is still somewhat managable and rides like an XP.
Dropped my sled off at Quantum today because I gave up and he found the issue right away the Dyno Port pipe blew apart and the baffle was stuck right at the mouth of the turbo stoping 85% of the exhaust from coming into the charger. It explains the high coolant temps I had as well.
As for Jeffs altitude compensation design where you use Pro jets to bleed of Peto tube pressure it works perfect.
For those wondering what a 860 nitrous vs Turbo feels like. It is not even close. Not even in the same ball park. The difference between a stocker to a 860 with a double 5 shot is at least double to triple again for a turbo.
After Evan sled ran perfect both days I know this is the answer I was told not to run an aftermarket pipe but I did not listen.
I have some vids coming but it may be a bit before I get around to posting them to youtube.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
i agree the turbo will make more power. but a guy with an 860 and nitrous would have been running all weekend.
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